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Thread: Find Me a Team That Would Want Tyreke

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    KEEP EVANS. Did Yall forget all the good games he had? His chemistry with AD? He needs to be coached. Get a mid range jumper and you'll be a poor man's RW
    He'll never get a mid range jumper.

  2. #102
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    KEEP EVANS. Did Yall forget all the good games he had? His chemistry with AD? He needs to be coached. Get a mid range jumper and you'll be a poor man's RW
    If he could fix his shot then I would be all for Tyreke. That's the problem though is he can't shoot and kills spacing worse than a big man center who can't shoot. It makes it every time he has to create for AD and other players it is going reckless towards the hoop into a crowd getting kickouts. The problem is teams know that is what he is doing and not pulling up on you makin it way more predictable and easier to cover. Just like Rondo but with him it works having 3 shooters 2-4 in his starting lineup like Boston/Dallas and Tryreke won't get that on this team unless like people said off the bench with specialist while he creates. Harden and Ginobli are so dangerous because you don't know when they will pull up and drop it. Second its making pick and rolls easier while just simply creating for others and yourself. This play just won't work once you get to the playoffs and teams are so much better prepared to shut this down. We need Holiday and guys like Mathews around him instead of Tyreke. Getting Mathews and Batum instead of Gordon and Tyreke would be perfect for this team and be similiar salary wise. That would be something along with our role players now would get us to the next level.
    Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 04-28-2015 at 12:30 AM.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Harden and Ginobli are so dangerous because you don't know when they will pull up and drop it. .
    And I just want to add on that in addition to Harden and Ginobli being able to hit jumpers, they also draw FTs and can put them through the hoop.

    Tyreke can't shoot; does not convert opportunities at the rim efficiently enough to justify his usage; not only does he not draw FTs, he actively avoids contact; and when he does get to the line, he isn't particularly reliable.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by PelicansBay View Post
    Tyreke and Ryno to Hornets for MKG, Stephenson, Vonleh
    MKG is easily the most untraceable piece on the Hornets they hang up quick.

  5. #105
    I could see Denver, Indiana and PHX as destinations

    Tyreke and Hibbert for example is around the value. Good questionable fit players are what we can get back for Tyreke.

  6. #106
    The Franchise pawel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang View Post
    Trade Tyreke for a guy who just tore his Achilles
    You probably misunderstood my proposition. It was not a deal to send Evans for injured trash.

    I will kill for Matthews in this team and probably now this might be probable...
    Of course PTB will remain with him, but You might try.
    Many sportsmen played well after problems with Achilles...
    Last edited by pawel; 04-28-2015 at 03:08 AM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    And I just want to add on that in addition to Harden and Ginobli being able to hit jumpers, they also draw FTs and can put them through the hoop.

    Tyreke can't shoot; does not convert opportunities at the rim efficiently enough to justify his usage; not only does he not draw FTs, he actively avoids contact; and when he does get to the line, he isn't particularly reliable.
    He also makes far less than Harden too. Compare nearly every SF to LBJ and they will pale in comparison as well. That doesn't mean they are bad players, it means they aren't superstars. But we aren't paying Tyreke like a superstar and so we shouldn't have superstar expectations for him.

    Everyone seems to be in love with Gordon (or at least OK with him) but when you actually look at the numbers he was worse than AMo in every category except assists. One was on a league minimum last year, the other a max. Tyreke, 1 of only 5 players to average at least 15-5-5, the player on the cheapest contract BY FAR in that group and yet he's received probably 100x the hate of Gordon this year on the forum.

    The most accurate comparison to Tyreke is he is Westbrook without the FTs. But he makes a heck of a lot less than Westbrook too.

  8. #108
    U-L-M...Geaux Hawks Geaux djpaul89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    He'll never get a mid range jumper.
    Tyreke's overall shooting has improved though. His shooting while managing his late season injuries may not reflect it, but either a TBW/BSS or national article came out maybe a month ago that said Tyreke actually shot 39% from the midrange area and shot a respectable clip (34 or 35%) from 3 at home this season. I'll try to dig it up when I have more free time.

  9. #109
    You will have a HUGE piece coming out about Reke tomorrow that will have all the good and the bad.

    Even I was shocked by some things I dug up
    @mcnamara247

  10. #110
    I don't think asik and tyreke match up well. I think if tyreke has a center who is an offensive threat, tyreke's effectiveness will vastly improve.

  11. #111
    The thing I notice with all the people trying to push back against the Evans criticism is that it always involves talking around the points people are making. Do you not think the people who are pointing out that Evans is a poor shooter, bad facilitator, poor defender, bad clutch player, doesn't draw FT's and convert them well , requires the ball in his hand to be effective don't know he has 16-5-5?

    What these people are saying is that when you dig deeper things look less rosy.

    The Manu and Westbrook comparisons are an insult to those guys. Manu especially. Westbrook shares some things(good and bad) but again, those that want to make that comparison have only found success by cherry picking evidence to support them and putting their fingers in their ears when everyone else explains what they are missing and why such comparisons fall apart.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by heybigmatt View Post
    I don't think asik and tyreke match up well. I think if tyreke has a center who is an offensive threat, tyreke's effectiveness will vastly improve.
    That's the thing with Tyreke. Because of his array of limitations and needs, you have to basically construct a roster around him in a certain way for him to be optimally effective as a starter or find a perfect system that meets most of his needs. Much like Rondo. Except rondo was at least a two way player and a true facilitator.

    For Evans you have to allow him to have the ball in his hands. Need great defenders to cover up his huge liabilities. Also needs good transition defenders because his circus shots often leave the defense vulnerable for easy buckets the other way. Need shooters that don't work on rhythm because he often ignores players for extended time. Players that can also get their own shot because late in games teams will cover up the paint, back off Evans like players do Rondo and dare him to shoot, making passing and his scoring more difficult. Preferably spacing from bigs because he can't shoot so he needs the paint as clear as possible. He needs a center that can catch and finish, is also a great rim protector and help defender. His style often leads to last second dump offs to the center and on D he gambles, gets out of position and has trouble with people penetrating on him.

    And at the end of the day I don't see a guy in Evans that is really going to take you far in this world as your most ball dominant starter.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 04-28-2015 at 01:45 PM.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You will have a HUGE piece coming out about Reke tomorrow that will have all the good and the bad.

    Even I was shocked by some things I dug up
    Looking forward to it, love the stats you find, MM

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    That's the thing with Tyreke. Because of his array of limitations and needs, you have to basically construct a roster around him in a certain way for him to be optimally effective as a starter or find a perfect system that meets most of his needs. Much like Rondo. Except rondo was at least a two way player and a true facilitator.

    For Evans you have to allow him to have the ball in his hands. Need great defenders to cover up his huge liabilities. Also needs good transition defenders because his circus shots often leave the defense vulnerable for easy buckets the other way. Need shooters that don't work on rhythm because he often ignores players for extended time. Players that can also get their own shot because late in games teams will cover up the paint, back off Evans like players do Rondo and dare him to shoot, making passing and his scoring more difficult. Preferably spacing from bigs because he can't shoot so he needs the paint as clear as possible. He needs a center that can catch and finish, is also a great rim protector and help defender. His style often leads to last second dump offs to the center and on D he gambles, gets out of position and has trouble with people penetrating on him.

    And at the end of the day I don't see a guy in Evans that is really going to take you far in this world as your most ball dominant starter.
    It could work. When your star player is in your frontcourt, he isn't going to dominate the ball like a LBJ or RW. If Tyreke could get to the foul line more, he would be Dwayne Wade mixed with Jeff teague. We just need a Hassan Whiteside type piece and we could go far if healthy.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    The thing I notice with all the people trying to push back against the Evans criticism is that it always involves talking around the points people are making. Do you not think the people who are pointing out that Evans is a poor shooter, bad facilitator, poor defender, bad clutch player, doesn't draw FT's and convert them well , requires the ball in his hand to be effective don't know he has 16-5-5?

    What these people are saying is that when you dig deeper things look less rosy.

    The Manu and Westbrook comparisons are an insult to those guys. Manu especially. Westbrook shares some things(good and bad) but again, those that want to make that comparison have only found success by cherry picking evidence to support them and putting their fingers in their ears when everyone else explains what they are missing and why such comparisons fall apart.
    There's no cherry picking going on.



    Keep in mind Tyreke's stats are split between before he took over as our PG and after. As MM pointed out, if you just look at him as a starting PG he actually has the highest assist % in the league. Westbrook and Tyreke are VERY similar players with the main difference being FT rate and the amount of money they are paid. I haven't seen one person say Tyreke is not flawed. He is. What people are saying is he is very good for the amount he is paid. It seems to be this board that acts as if Tyreke is straight garbage and is worthless.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Noggy View Post
    It could work. When your star player is in your frontcourt, he isn't going to dominate the ball like a LBJ or RW. If Tyreke could get to the foul line more, he would be Dwayne Wade mixed with Jeff teague. We just need a Hassan Whiteside type piece and we could go far if healthy.
    But he hasn't changed since he got in the league. Everyone keeps saying this will happen or that will happen, but the changes have been marginal at best. If he played like harden when it comes to contact and foul drawing, improved his mid range game, improved his decision making, improved his defense, could be a better pull up shooter and catch and shoot guy, then yeah, that guy is someone you can build around with the goal of championship.

    Current Evans? It can work up to a point, but is it a championship team? No. Not IMO. Evans is not a diverse enough talent on both sides of the ball nor an intelligent enough player to be the highest usage player on a championship squad. So you build the perfect team around him and ultimately you hit a wall where it is Evans that is what will hold that team back.

    That is in part why I still contend that he is a 25 minute 6th man who's minutes trend up or down based on performance and isn't guaranteed clutch time minutes - where he has struggled.

    As he is right now

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    But he hasn't changed since he got in the league. Everyone keeps saying this will happen or that will happen, but the changes have been marginal at best. If he played like harden when it comes to contact and foul drawing, improved his mid range game, improved his decision making, improved his defense, could be a better pull up shooter and catch and shoot guy, then yeah, that guy is someone you can build around with the goal of championship.

    Current Evans? It can work up to a point, but is it a championship team? No. Not IMO. Evans is not a diverse enough talent on both sides of the ball nor an intelligent enough player to be the highest usage player on a championship squad. So you build the perfect team around him and ultimately you hit a wall where it is Evans that is what will hold that team back.

    That is in part why I still contend that he is a 25 minute 6th man who's minutes trend up or down based on performance and isn't guaranteed clutch time minutes - where he has struggled.

    As he is right now
    look at the post right above you

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    There's no cherry picking going on.



    Keep in mind Tyreke's stats are split between before he took over as our PG and after. As MM pointed out, if you just look at him as a starting PG he actually has the highest assist % in the league. Westbrook and Tyreke are VERY similar players with the main difference being FT rate and the amount of money they are paid. I haven't seen one person say Tyreke is not flawed. He is. What people are saying is he is very good for the amount he is paid. It seems to be this board that acts as if Tyreke is straight garbage and is worthless.
    Defense, diversity of skill-set, TS%, FT rating, ability to get to the line, clutch performance stats. You also ignore that defenders don't leave Westbrook. They don't back up if he is going to take a 3 or a mid ranger(though I think he isn't quite as good as his reputation gets him). Defenders dare Evans to take those. They try and revolve their defense on forcing him to take those shots. Defenses try to contest those or take them away from Westbrook. Teams love when Evans falls in love with those shots. Westbrook takes stupid shots but leave him open at three and give him open jumpers all game and he can kill the other team on occasion. Leave Evans open all game and if he takes those threes and jumpers he is likely going kill his own team. Westbrook isn't a great open shooter, or even a good one, but he does at least demand respect.


    The assist % thing is a bit confusing because I am not sure where you are getting that. NBA.com puts his assist % below Westbrook after the Jrue injury. Still, the assist numbers don't speak to my complaints of Evans as a facilitator. And a lot of my complaints of Evans facilitation carry over to Westbrook as well. I think both are below average facilitators. they are above average passers and can get assists but that doesnt make you a good facilitator. Look at Mike Conley as a perfect example. Now unless you are a complete basketball idiot no one is going to disagree that Conley is a superior facilitator to Westbrook and Evans, but Conley has less assists. So pure assists as a metric to judge a players ability to be effective as a facilitator is not always cut and dry when it comes to that number.

    But i am also someone that doesnt think you can win a championship with Westbrook playing the way he has most of this season unless the talent margin is so wide his negativities can be overcome. So you are ultimately proving my point in saying Evans is similar to Westbrook.

    I think you also need to step back and stop trying to mischaracterize peoples stances. I have yet to read people calling him garbage outside of off hand color comments. I think right now, under Monty, in this system, Evans is best served as a 25 minute or so 6th man. Trending up when he is hot. This isnt so much a criticism of Evans as it is Williams. Who I have yet to see that he fully grasps how to best use Evans yet. Part of that is because of injury but most of that comes outside of the injuries forcing his hand.

    most people think he has value but differ in what that value is and how best to use him on this current team.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 04-28-2015 at 03:04 PM.

  19. #119
    Hall of Famer Davisistheman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    You will have a HUGE piece coming out about Reke tomorrow that will have all the good and the bad.

    Even I was shocked by some things I dug up
    I bet he though those pictures were destroyed. lol...

  20. #120

    Find Me a Team That Would Want Tyreke

    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    Defense, diversity of skill-set, TS%, FT rating, ability to get to the line, clutch performance stats. You also ignore that defenders don't leave Westbrook. They don't back up if he is going to take a 3 or a mid ranger(though I think he isn't quite as good as his reputation gets him). Defenders dare Evans to take those. They try and revolve their defense on forcing him to take those shots. Defenses try to contest those or take them away from Westbrook. Teams love when Evans falls in love with those shots. Westbrook takes stupid shots but leave him open at three and give him open jumpers all game and he can kill the other team on occasion. Leave Evans open all game and if he takes those threes and jumpers he is likely going kill his own team. Westbrook isn't a great open shooter, or even a good one, but he does at least demand respect.


    The assist % thing is a bit confusing because I am not sure where you are getting that. NBA.com puts his assist % below Westbrook after the Jrue injury. Still, the assist numbers don't speak to my complaints of Evans as a facilitator. And a lot of my complaints of Evans facilitation carry over to Westbrook as well. I think both are below average facilitators. they are above average passers and can get assists but that doesnt make you a good facilitator. Look at Mike Conley as a perfect example. Now unless you are a complete basketball idiot no one is going to disagree that Conley is a superior facilitator to Westbrook and Evans, but Conley has less assists. So pure assists as a metric to judge a players ability to be effective as a facilitator is not always cut and dry when it comes to that number.

    But i am also someone that doesnt think you can win a championship with Westbrook playing the way he has most of this season unless the talent margin is so wide his negativities can be overcome. So you are ultimately proving my point in saying Evans is similar to Westbrook.

    I think you also need to step back and stop trying to mischaracterize peoples stances. I have yet to read people calling him garbage outside of off hand color comments. I think right now, under Monty, in this system, Evans is best served as a 25 minute or so 6th man. Trending up when he is hot. This isnt so much a criticism of Evans as it is Williams. Who I have yet to see that he fully grasps how to best use Evans yet. Part of that is because of injury but most of that comes outside of the injuries forcing his hand.

    most people think he has value but differ in what that value is and how best to use him on this current team.
    Everyone dares Westbrook to shoot jumpers just like Tyreke, but he is worse than Tyreke as the numbers I posted shows. Westbrook has already been on a team that went to the finals. This points to the very clear fact that you can have a player like Tyreke and still be a champion caliber team.

    The assist % stat was posted by MM. I'm sure his article tomorrow will explain it more.

    "I have yet to see people call Tyreke garbage except for when people do." -- Exactly my point.

    Everything else is just opinion fluff so have fun with that. It's like Asik. I have no interest in arguing against people who have their minds firmly set no matter what you show them.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Everyone dares Westbrook to shoot jumpers just like Tyreke, but he is worse than Tyreke as the numbers I posted shows. Westbrook has already been on a team that went to the finals. This points to the very clear fact that you can have a player like Tyreke and still be a champion caliber team.

    "I have yet to see people call Tyreke garbage except for when people do." -- Exactly my point.

    Everything else is just opinion fluff so have fun with that. It's like Asik. I have no interest in arguing against people who have their minds firmly set no matter what you show them.
    Hes not worse actually. Look at the detailed stats. Westbrook hits roughly 40% of open 2pt jumpers greater then 10 feet and 35% from three. Evans is 37% from open 2's and around the same from 3. Westbrook's percentages barely drop when you contest him though. whereas with Evans, the moment contesting gets even a little tight, his percentages fall off a cliff. Down to 20% on 2 pointers from beyond 10 feet if a defender is within 4 feet and closer to him.

    Neither are guys that you fear shooting a bunch but Westbrook brings a lot more to the table then Evans. On both sides.

    And like i said, "like Westbrook played this year" which was Westbrooks bad tendencies on steroids this season with Durant down. That Westbrook can't win a chip

    And i am not saying you can't get to a championship with Evans not he roster. I am saying that unless you have a ridiculous amount of the right talent around him he is going to be a limiting factor as a starter. That on our current team he is not someone that should start or be guaranteed to finish games due to his limitations and monty's improper use and inability to control him.

  22. #122
    Saint Pelican of Mile High Contributor DefensiveMind's Avatar
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    I really don't understand the arguments going on here. Is Tyreke talented? Yes. Is he the 2nd most important player on this team? Probably. Is he one of the most productive guards in the league? Seems like it. Can a team compete for a title with him as one of their top 3 players. That's totally subjective and depends on how you view the makeup of title teams.

    There were people who argued that we couldn't win a title with Chris Paul as our best player. That doesn't mean people didn't appreciate his status as the best PG since Isiah. You can have multiple viewpoints about what it takes to win a title without necessarily calling a player garbage.

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Davisistheman View Post
    I bet he though those pictures were destroyed. lol...
    lmao

  24. #124
    Tyreke for Bargnani (would need to be signed and traded by Knicks) and Hardaway. Works capwise and improves both teams. AD and QPon and Holiday's above average defense would pick up Bargnani who would stretch the court with AD. Bargnani would fit in with the Pellies so much better than Asik. This lineup would be amazing with D'Antoni at the helm.

    Under this scenario we'd sign and trade Asik so we get something back for him. Denoted below as 7th player named "Asik S&T".

    Holiday
    Gordon
    QPon
    Davis
    Bargnani
    Hardaway
    Asik S&T (raw, athletic big)
    Ryno
    Cole

    Coach: Mike D'Antoni
    PPG: 109.3 (1st in NBA)
    Fun Index: 87.9 (2nd in NBA behind Warriors)
    Attendance at the Blender: 15,675 (17th in NBA)
    Record: 53 wins and 4th seed / potential WCF team
    Last edited by WisconsinHornet; 04-28-2015 at 07:59 PM.
    "The only thing Ryno stretches is the 0's on the stat sheet." - BallSoHard

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    Tyreke for Bargnani (would need to be signed and traded by Knicks) and Hardaway. Works capwise and improves both teams. AD and QPon and Holiday's above average defense would pick up Bargnani who would stretch the court with AD. Bargnani would fit in with the Pellies so much better than Asik. This lineup would be amazing with D'Antoni at the helm.

    Under this scenario we'd sign and trade Asik so we get something back for him. Denoted below as 7th player named "Asik S&T".

    Holiday
    Gordon
    QPon
    Davis
    Bargnani
    Hardaway
    Asik S&T (raw, athletic big)
    Ryno
    Cole

    Coach: Mike D'Antoni
    PPG: 109.3 (1st in NBA)
    Fun Index: 87.9 (2nd in NBA behind Warriors)
    Attendance at the Blender: 15,675 (17th in NBA)
    Record: 53 wins and 4th seed / potential WCF team
    S&T doesn't work like that anymore...if you're more than $4MM over the cap, you can't get a player back in a S&T. We'd be over that, unless we start renouncing everybody (Cole, Withey, Ajinca...) and even that might not be enough. Not to mention...Bargnani???

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