Monty Williams Defense

[N.O.Bronco]

I haven't really been on the "Fire Monty" train, but tonight I'm nearly on board. It's looking like Monty has taken this team as far as he's capable of, and it's time for someone else to step in from this point on. Demote Monty to an assistant if you can, but I don't know if he should be in charge anymore. He's reached a dead end.

On a personal level I agree with your conclusion.

Monty to me is guy similar to Scott Brooks or a Mark Jackson. A guy you are happy was there to be a steward to your young superstar and franchise because he made a personal connection and helped mold them into who they are becoming. He created stability and an environment where those young stars could grow and thrive.

Guys who were never considered great coaches in the traditional sense: X's and O's, system, in-game adjustments, out-of-game adjustments, on-court coaching etc.

Like those guys I think Monty fits into a similar narrative. They are guys you are happy to have steward your franchise the first part of your rebuilding process. Guys that get it done the first 5 years but aren't really the right guys for the job the next 5 years.

[donato]

I say give Demps the ability to hire his head coach. Hes built this team under a mandate, as others have pointed at, with inexperience, mediocrity, and average coaching peppered throughout. Give him an honest shot with AD and with full control. I dont see how that hurts us so long as he is free to call the shots as he seea fit.

This is what I would do.

[moon54]

I always support upgrades like tom thibodeau .

[N.O.Bronco]

I say give Demps the ability to hire his head coach. Hes built this team under a mandate, as others have pointed at, with inexperience, mediocrity, and average coaching peppered throughout. Give him an honest shot with AD and with full control. I dont see how that hurts us so long as he is free to call the shots as he seea fit.

In an ideal scenario I can see this argument. Even from someone that is disappointed with Demps's bigger moves.

But that is a big risk to put full control and the possible future of your franchise into the hands of a guy that was supposedly already on the hot seat and wasn't ever hired by the current regime. Im just saying that I would not be shocked to see Demps giving up his parking pass with Monty this offseason if we get swept. Not because he deserved to be fired but because the organization trusts themselves over the guys they didn't hire and have been skeptical of.

[DefensiveMind]

In an ideal scenario I can see this argument. Even from someone that is disappointed with Demps's bigger moves.

But that is a big risk to put full control and the possible future of your franchise into the hands of a guy that was supposedly already on the hot seat and wasn't ever hired by the current regime. Im just saying that I would not be shocked to see Demps giving up his parking pass with Monty this offseason if we get swept. Not because he deserved to be fired but because the organization trusts themselves over the guys they didn't hire and have been skeptical of.

I understand this. But if you fire Monty AND Dell you run the risk of losing some continuity from this 45 win outfit. There was progress, no oneis denying that. Ease up on the mandates. Let Dell roll the dice with some guys based on fit, feel, style of play and culture instead of raw talent and let him pick the guy that fits with the above to coach the outfit. Needed change with some familiarity.

[N.O.Bronco]

I understand this. But if you fire Monty AND Dell you run the risk of losing some continuity from this 45 win outfit. There was progress, no oneis denying that. Ease up on the mandates. Let Dell roll the dice with some guys based on fit, feel, style of play and culture instead of raw talent and let him pick the guy that fits with the above to coach the outfit. Needed change with some familiarity.

I agree with that. Same can be applied to Monty though in terms of continuity and who should get that pass. Did Monty coach up bad players that he finally couldn't compensate for tonight? Did Monty screw up with good players that Dell is getting unfairly judged by because they looked bad? Both?

I am just saying I can see where the top decision makers may see things differently because their asses are on the line too. If they foul up and let a guy they had on the hot seat potentially mess up where does that leave them? Maybe they can use the fact they didn't pick him as the GM as an excuse. Maybe Benson is so gone he won't care. But more likely their blessing to Demps makes them accountable too.

I mean if you are going to live and die by how your GM and coach do the next few years, do you want a guy you handpicked or do you go all in on the guys you were already skeptical of? At the core of it that is the angle I am coming at it from and why I could see a sweep leading to them both leaving.

[Hugeaux II]

For the most part I've thought that Monty was a good coach that could eventually be great, that if we had the right roster and the right assistants that he could become our Pop, and when we'd have a rough stretch I'd remind myself that Doc Rivers was almost fired, and probably should have been fired, by the Celts - but they showed some patience and got the right players and now he's thought of as one of the best. I was never thrilled with how the roster was constructed for Monty- but I also know that we were never going to be allowed to try a slow build through the draft. We probably did the best we could after rolling the dice on flawed but talented guys like Omar and Tyreke, and overpaying for Jrue, by finding incredible bargains like DC, Q, and Cole. And the roster we have now has outplayed the team that is one of the best teams in recent memory for 3 out of 4 quarters in every game - but lost all 3.

After the Woj report came out the reaction was largely to say how crazy it is to have a 'playoffs or fired' mandate. Injuries and weird results (for both us and the Thunder) and all the other variables about who would make the payoffs in the West made that an arbitrary line in the sand. Don't get rid of Monty and Dell for not crossing that line, get rid of them if they are not the guys you want was a common refrain. Even Woj backed off, or qualified, what he said. But I think you need to reframe the question a little bit. What if they really aren't the guy, or guys, Benson wants - but they still crossed that arbitrary line?

Saturday is going to tell us a lot about Monty and these guys. If they can pick themselves off the mat, I'm going to be very impressed - not necessarily with his coaching ability, but his leadership ability. Not only will they be coming off as brutal a loss as I can remember, but what kind of home court fan support are we going to provide? I felt like the mood in the arena with 3 minutes to go, when we still had a solid lead, was one of absolute panic and terror. How many people will show up, and how many are going to be expecting the worst?

But getting back to Monty, regardless of what happens Saturday, the team has improved each year under his leadership, if there was an arbitrary line in the sand or not, the team reached that line. But the majority of the fan base seems to clearly be done with Monty, and losing in the manner in which we lost may have destroyed any of the good-will built up by reaching our goals (arbitrary or not). And while we all may have our favorites (and we're all relieved that Avery is off the board) it is not like there is a slam dunk candidate out there. Thibs wears on players, Jackson is a leader but not a coach, Hoiberg may not be any healthier than Karl, etc etc. Phil ain't walking through that door, Pop aint walking through that door, Red ain't walking through any door. And you absolutely can not mess this decision up when you have a 22 year old AD. I'm not saying don't make a change - I'm saying wow am I glad I am not the one having to make that call.

OKC just fired Brooks for largely the same reason we are talking about a change. A lot of national media crushed his decisions. His players seemed to love him. They've got KD on the verge of his own contract extension. And reportedly their top 2 candidates are guys that have never coached in the pros. Fired a guy because they didn't think he could take them to the next level, and wanting to hire even more unproved guys.? Yikes. I think Ollie will be great, but I also thought Thomas Robinson couldn't miss. I'm just a dope venting on the internet. Reading this back before pressing 'post' I know this sounds like a don't fire Monty because of the boogyman behind door number two strawman, but that is really not my intent. It's just me trying to calm myself down and look at how difficult a decision this really is. Good luck to Loomis and Lauscha and whoever it deciding on that next step, whatever that is.

[kidjock24]

27, 34, 45. That is the win trend the past 3 years.
105, 107, 108. Thats the offensive rating trend.
110, 110, 107 Thats the defensive rating trend.

I expect them to make another 10 win jump next year. Monty can get scrubs to give their all against stars. Monty has the respect of his team. They don't quit on him. His biggest issues were pace and in game lineup questions. Pace of play is STILL an issue, but I think he has made strides in putting out the best lineup and making good in game adjustments. I was ready to fire him 2 years ago, but AD loves him and he has improved our team every year on both offense and defense.

[DefensiveMind]

27, 34, 45. That is the win trend the past 3 years.
105, 107, 108. Thats the offensive rating trend.
110, 110, 107 Thats the defensive rating trend.

I expect them to make another 10 win jump next year. Monty can get scrubs to give their all against stars. Monty has the respect of his team. They don't quit on him. His biggest issues were pace and in game lineup questions. Pace of play is STILL an issue, but I think he has made strides in putting out the best lineup and making good in game adjustments. I was ready to fire him 2 years ago, but AD loves him and he has improved our team every year on both offense and defense.

Would you eat a gourmet steak dinner served on a garbage can lid?

Would you drink a bottle of water that had a drop of urine in it?

Sometimes its not about the diamond. It's about the flaws. Can you live with them? Do they alter the product? Are they fixable? Does it meet the ultimate standard? No one can deny that this team has improved IMMENSELY. They absolutely have, but you have to ask yourself if the flaws you see make digesting the product a non-starter. For me its no longer a question. N.O. Bronco made an excellent point about stages and since Monty is a religious man I'll use this analogy: Moses got his people out of Egypt, but Joshua took them to the promised land.

[NewOrleansBBall]

My only question is when we were KILLING Golden State in the first 3 quarters and first 5 mins of he fourth, what kind of coach was Monty then!?

If we would have won then would we be saying all of this?...like this!?
I told my wife if we lost the 20 point lead and the game that he would lose his job but I'm not saying he's a great coach but I think the players played not to lose in the fourth and not to win!

Huge difference...

[UNO Gracias]

A small contingency of us didn't want to keep Monty for more than a year more (some even wanted to give him a 40 game leash) prior to last nights game. After last night a lot of fence sitters came over to our side. There aren't a whole lot of people on either side of the argument, there are a ton of people in the middle of the debate that see the merits presented by both sides. I think our side will get larger if we get swept in an embarrassing fashion. Another loss like last night, and people won't care if we had a 50 pt lead, if we lose by one heads will roll.

As to, "We had a 20 pt lead and our players played not to lose the game." I can see that, and Monty is just as responsible for that lead as he was for the loss. He is the coach. If he sees players playing with less than "it" that's on him to pull them and sub in a new player. This isn't tag team wrestling where a player can tag in a worn down teammate. Players are calling timeouts at the coaches discretion. If this loss was on the players, it was even more so on Monty who's job it is to recognize when things aren't right. If people come back with, "well his asst. coaches are there to also call out problems and breakdowns." Then what is the merit in keeping Monty if they are supposed to do what he is paid more money (and has a better title) for? If you want to get Monty a better X's and O's assistant coach what is the merit in keeping Monty? Sure Phil had Tex Winters, and Pops has Boylen (who was a horrid coach at Utah), and other great coaches have great assistants, but those guys are respected because they know their systems enough, and their players well enough, and the game of basketball enough, to recognize when things arent going right. Monty can get a few better assistants, but he will still exhibit the same characteristics that have failed him for the last 5 years.

[Jabberwalker]

For the most part I've thought that Monty was a good coach that could eventually be great, that if we had the right roster and the right assistants that he could become our Pop, and when we'd have a rough stretch I'd remind myself that Doc Rivers was almost fired, and probably should have been fired, by the Celts - but they showed some patience and got the right players and now he's thought of as one of the best. I was never thrilled with how the roster was constructed for Monty- but I also know that we were never going to be allowed to try a slow build through the draft. We probably did the best we could after rolling the dice on flawed but talented guys like Omar and Tyreke, and overpaying for Jrue, by finding incredible bargains like DC, Q, and Cole. And the roster we have now has outplayed the team that is one of the best teams in recent memory for 3 out of 4 quarters in every game - but lost all 3.

After the Woj report came out the reaction was largely to say how crazy it is to have a 'playoffs or fired' mandate. Injuries and weird results (for both us and the Thunder) and all the other variables about who would make the payoffs in the West made that an arbitrary line in the sand. Don't get rid of Monty and Dell for not crossing that line, get rid of them if they are not the guys you want was a common refrain. Even Woj backed off, or qualified, what he said. But I think you need to reframe the question a little bit. What if they really aren't the guy, or guys, Benson wants - but they still crossed that arbitrary line?

Saturday is going to tell us a lot about Monty and these guys. If they can pick themselves off the mat, I'm going to be very impressed - not necessarily with his coaching ability, but his leadership ability. Not only will they be coming off as brutal a loss as I can remember, but what kind of home court fan support are we going to provide? I felt like the mood in the arena with 3 minutes to go, when we still had a solid lead, was one of absolute panic and terror. How many people will show up, and how many are going to be expecting the worst?

But getting back to Monty, regardless of what happens Saturday, the team has improved each year under his leadership, if there was an arbitrary line in the sand or not, the team reached that line. But the majority of the fan base seems to clearly be done with Monty, and losing in the manner in which we lost may have destroyed any of the good-will built up by reaching our goals (arbitrary or not). And while we all may have our favorites (and we're all relieved that Avery is off the board) it is not like there is a slam dunk candidate out there. Thibs wears on players, Jackson is a leader but not a coach, Hoiberg may not be any healthier than Karl, etc etc. Phil ain't walking through that door, Pop aint walking through that door, Red ain't walking through any door. And you absolutely can not mess this decision up when you have a 22 year old AD. I'm not saying don't make a change - I'm saying wow am I glad I am not the one having to make that call.

OKC just fired Brooks for largely the same reason we are talking about a change. A lot of national media crushed his decisions. His players seemed to love him. They've got KD on the verge of his own contract extension. And reportedly their top 2 candidates are guys that have never coached in the pros. Fired a guy because they didn't think he could take them to the next level, and wanting to hire even more unproved guys.? Yikes. I think Ollie will be great, but I also thought Thomas Robinson couldn't miss. I'm just a dope venting on the internet. Reading this back before pressing 'post' I know this sounds like a don't fire Monty because of the boogyman behind door number two strawman, but that is really not my intent. It's just me trying to calm myself down and look at how difficult a decision this really is. Good luck to Loomis and Lauscha and whoever it deciding on that next step, whatever that is.

I like this post. Good thoughts. Good reasoning. I think we're on the same page.

If you're undertaking a project it can be difficult to cut bait and know when. Is now the time? Maybe, but maybe not. Maybe there's nothing better out there. And it's unlikely the replacement changes things drastically one way or the other. I think the concentration on Monty is the problem. He can absolutely change if we win or lose, but he probably doesn't often, and most coaches don't often do better than replacement level. I think the fans just need to stop looking to Monty for everything they don't like that happens on the court. Sure there are decisions he could have made one way or the other to help, but what would another coach do? Most coaches drive every fanbase crazy with their decisions that fans think they know better than. Maybe they're right, maybe not. But things aren't going to change so just enjoy the ride.

[djrnno]

This all boils down to one question and after 5yrs and no matter what the circumstances you should be able to answer the question . Can you honestly say you have confidence that Monty is the coach to lead us to the finals without a team of allstars ? I won't even say win us a championship , I'll just say get us to the finals. If you do , well then you ride with Monty . I for one do not and have not for a bit now , mostly due to the control he has on his players. And I think that if you don't have faith , confidence and throw in some hope that your coach can accomplish that goal , then it's time to find one that does and quit wasting the talent that we do have

[Sovereign]

How many coaches can get a team of no all stars into the Finals going through the West?

[UNO Gracias]

How many coaches can get a team of no all stars into the Finals going through the West?

I don't think any could.

I do respect what Snyder and Hornaceck were able to do in the West this year. Neither had AS's, both had injuries to deal with, but both had respectable seasons.

[DroopyDawg]

It wasn't the defense that lost this game it was the rebounding (or lack of). When you play against a team with shooters like Steph and Klay you contest the shots, and hope they miss. These 2 are the best I've see in YEARS at making contested shots.

Our problem in the 4th was that we couldn't get any rebounds (offensive nor defensive). I see people whining about Asik not being on the floor... these are the same people that wanted Asik on the bench. Schizophrenic bunch we have on this board. You put Asik out there against the 5 that GS had and our rebounding would have been better, but we may not have gotten any stops, because there wasn't one player on the court that Asik could guard (Bogut was on the bench).

Maybe we'll get game 4 at home but man it would have been nice to win games 2 and 3... we had them.

[4Real]

I don't want the man fired. I mean it was not his fault that QPon or Cunningham did not tap Curry. Yes there is video on Nola.com Pelicans web page that shows Monty screaming foul him.

[NMThreeMVP]

If you don't extend Monty, you have to trade Tyreke, or know for certain Jrue Holiday is over his leg issues.

Tyreke as lead guard with Monty as a lame duck is a recipe for dysfunction and disappointment next season.

1. Extend Monty
2. Trade Tyreke
3. Rebuild Jrue Holiday's leg to bionic standards

3 options, choose one.

Or just fire Monty

[DroopyDawg]

If you don't extend Monty, you have to trade Tyreke, or know for certain Jrue Holiday is over his leg issues.

Tyreke as lead guard with Monty as a lame duck is a recipe for dysfunction and disappointment next season.

1. Extend Monty
2. Trade Tyreke
3. Rebuild Jrue Holiday's leg to bionic standards

3 options, choose one.

Or just fire Monty

Dude I was thinking the same thing. I don't think Monty and tyreke can co-exist. the offense runs so much smoother with Jrue... or even norris Cole in there. We get out in transition so much more with Jrue and/or COle in there.

Tyreke puts up numbers but the game is more than numbers. Our pace on offense is garbage, and it p!sses me off to no-end to see him (Reke) pound the rock for the first 15 secs of the shock click, then we end up taking a terrible shot just to beat the clock.

Trade this dude man.

[GuardianAngel25]

I think Monty and Dell have to come back. Yes we are down 3-0 but that is to one of the best teams in the past decade. We haven't gotten blown out or been out of any of these games to the best team in the NBA hands down. I say we bring back Mike Malone as lead assistant and improve on the season we had. With this same roster next year we are a 50+ win team. With another guy added to this group and health we are a top 4 seed easy.

[aas3452]

Monty is gone...this is a business and the season ticket holders will scream for his head. As a fan, I'll be open to him staying but the assistant coaches would need upgrade. As mentioned above, mike Malone would be helpful.

[GuardianAngel25]

Gotta love how everyone in this board would agree Carlisle is a top 5 coach yet he is about to get swept by the Rockets who aren't near as good of a team as the Warriors. Monty has taken a young injured team all season to the playoffs in the Western Conference to give the Warriors 2 of their toughest matches they mite see all of the playoffs wether they win or lose some. No reason we can't make a similiar jump next season with some health just like them. They went from 51 wins and a 1st round loss to the top team in the NBA being the clear favorites as NBA champions. We were in all 3 games with 2 that could have been won and I'm not gonna say should have because us being in that position to win like we were is amazing. Just so tired of everything being Montys fault when you see guys like Carlisle about to get swept and Spoelstra not even making the playoffs in the weak east. We have a good coach who is only getting better and learning along with a young and talented team that can make huge strides and improvements from this years experience to next years. This team with 1 key player this off season and health is a top 4 seed and a serious contender next season and yes that's with Monty at coach.

[BlueJay]

I say this few mth ago and I still stand by it. I won't cry foul if we keep Monty for another year with a full on rosters because

-AD will resign, no player have ever walk away from their first MAX deal.
-Even if nothing change we are a 50+ win team
-he is good for player development, he did wonder to AD/Reke and have everyone buy into where he is selling.
-Now this we got our "grow up" game I believe they will grow stronger than ever next year

But I am happy to bring in a vet HC to lead the team to the next lvl, the biggest bone I have w/ Monty is play after time out they never work. Sloan for a couple year? JVG? Monty can stay if he want.

[RobertM320]

I say this few mth ago and I still stand by it. I won't cry foul if we keep Monty for another year with a full on rosters because

-AD will resign, no player have ever walk away from their first MAX deal.
-Even if nothing change we are a 50+ win team
-he is good for player development, he did wonder to AD/Reke and have everyone buy into where he is selling.
-Now this we got our "grow up" game I believe they will grow stronger than ever next year

But I am happy to bring in a vet HC to lead the team to the next lvl, the biggest bone I have w/ Monty is play after time out they never work. Sloan for a couple year? JVG? Monty can stay if he want.

That's odd. I'd swear someone posted previously that we have one of the highest percentage of scoring after time outs in the entire league.

[NMThreeMVP]

That's odd. I'd swear someone posted previously that we have one of the highest percentage of scoring after time outs in the entire league.

People see what they want to see