Any love for Kevin Seraphin? He's a bruiser who at 25 was developing into a better player, but now seems stuck behind NeNe and Gortat for the Wizards...
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Any love for Kevin Seraphin? He's a bruiser who at 25 was developing into a better player, but now seems stuck behind NeNe and Gortat for the Wizards...
The only way I don't bring Asik back is if Gordon doesn't come back. Then I dump Anderson and go fishing for Marc.
I like Seraphin.
But what about the notion that Dell could acquire a center for Gordon, Evans, or Anderson? Sign a wing this season for MLE.
My problem isn't giving Asik $11.5m next season, it's being committed to paying him that over 4 years. 11.5 next year isn't a big deal, but I'd rather have that 11.5 added to the expiring money of Gordon and Anderson, than wasted on Asik. In other words, that's $11.5m further under the cap we get in summer of 2016, which IMO is more valuable than Asik.
Give us a name.Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP
We all generally agree on this board that Anderson has no trade value, and Gordon is being paid far more than his worth - So how are we going to get a center better than Asik for that?
As for the pipe dreams like DeAndre and Marc Gasol - we can clear all the cap space we want IMO, they are still going back to their teams, who can pay them more and have a history with them.
@mcnamara247
I want Gorgui Dieng bad.
Okay, let's say that Jordan or Monroe does agree to sign with us for the price you say. In order to pay them that, you have to let Asik walk and either stretch or trade Gordon.
And then, you don't have the MLE available to you since you used cap room, so you can only use the room exception, which can get you a 9th man type.
Or, instead of Gordon, you can dump Ryno and Cole. That will put you there too. But again, you won't have the MLE.
If I could get Jordan or Gasol, I would do that. But I don't think either guy will become available (and I think both will be closer to 20mil per year BTW)
And if you let Asik walk and put Monroe in his place, good luck getting a top 10 defense ever - which is the common denominator for 28 out of the last 30 NBA champions
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Asik is not worth 10mil a year good Lord. If we could move Gordon or Anderson I'd throw a deal at gasol, Monroe or jordan. If all else fails i dont have a problem resigning Asik, just not at 10mil a year. That's a raise for him and he's not worth that.
At this point last year, who among us would have suggested Dell trade for QPon or Cole? Or that in years past he would acquire a Holiday, Evans, Anderson or Lopez?
I don't think you commit 4/46 to a guy that can't play against the top seed in your conference and is one dimensional. I might not be able to tell you who our center should be, but I'd honestly rather role with anyone you would perceive as less talented than Asik for a fraction of the cost than commit to a player as limited as Asik.
We might not be able to get a Danny Green, DeMarre Carrol, Kris Middleton type player next year, but we won't be able to get them in years 2-4 of Asik's contract either because that money will be tied up in a 15mpg, situational, 7ft specialist.
I might be in the minority, but I think it's always a bad decision when you can't enthusiastically give a guy 4 yrs 46m. I'd much rather have that additional cap space in 2016, even if it means we're in a fight for the 8th seed again in 2015.
Let's stop using 'X per year' because where the cap is going, 10 million is not 10 million anymore. How about this -
What % of the cap is he worth?
Right now, he is making 13.1% of the cap at 8.3 mil. Was that an overpay or about right? An underpay?
13.1% of the projected 2016-17 cap would be 11.7 million. 13.1% of the 2017-18 projected cap would be 14.1 million
So, if you give him $10 mil per year, you are paying him FAR less than you are now relative to the cap. A guy like Drummond, for instance - another very limited center- will be making 18 to 21 million per year in his next contract.
Saying "He is not worth 10 million" as if 10 million is really 10 million, fails to see the bigger picture.
What PERCENTAGE of the cap is he worth?
I'd even be willing to offer Asik a 1yr 15m deal. I just don't want to commit to him beyond the team's current cap constraints.
It'll feel a whole lot less exhilarating to finally have Gordon's $15m per year coming off the books but realize we're stuck with 3 more years of Asik's $11m.
The Spurs did exactly this after Splitter looked terrible against Miami in the Finals. They gave him $9 million per year, even though he was exposed in that matchup. If you want to find a center that will match up well no matter the matchup, then good luck finding that guy. If we were playing SA or Memphis in the first round, people would be worried that Asik would leave because he would be so important. But we didn't get those teams. We got his worst possible matchup, and that's life. But he was immensely valuable over the 2nd half of the year and the team has gotten better the more he has got to know his teammates and vice versa. Guy put up 8 and 10 on 55% shooting post AS break. Pels were so much better with him on the court than off. Offensive rating of 114, defensive rating of 102.
There is some prisoner of the moment going on here IMO. He was the exact guy we need post AS break. It's a bad matchup. The smartest team in the league didn't let that deter them.
Michael, he's not worth the opportunity cost in years 2-4 when our cap situation is less restrictive. It's impossible to say in a vacuum what % of the cap he's worth. Guys like Carroll, Middleton, and Green will be getting 13% of the cap. I'd rather be further under the cap in subsequent years so I could determine whether it's necessary to surround AD with two 20% of the cap guys, or three 13% guys from 2016 going forward.
I don't want to commit to Asik now, and have to make that decision this summer.
Thank you this is all I needed to know.
In response to your last sentence. I don't think you can look at Asik's value defensively solely on the defensive end, defense and offense don't live in vacuums. Part of the reason golden states defense is so good is because their offense is so good. His turnovers and futile attempts at scoring as well as his dropped catchable passes (pseudo-turnovers, in the same vein as the kobe assist), and lack of spacing he provides for the best offensive player on this team cause issues. I could make the argument that what he takes away offensively contributes to the problem this team has defensively. Further, it has been noted that the issue this team frequently has is perimeter defense. This has caused an exorbitant amount of in the paint scoring which doesn't seem to have been effected by whether asik is on or off the court, which leads me to believe that the slow footed asik is not the best help defender, which is also backed up by the eye test because he is extremely slow, and can not jump. So if you can give me some unequivocal information that Asik has transformed this defense, and putting greg monroe in there would drastically change the defense for the worse, I would love to see it. I doubt very much that we could find many 7 footers that would make this defense far worse if they were there instead of Asik, that are in Asik's price range.
You have stated that asik is great at setting picks and getting rebounds. since most teams have to worry about boxing Anthony Davis out, it allows Asik to gather a lot of rebounds. He is above average rebounder though. I have no argument against the fact that he is good at setting screens.
If I'm dell demps, I got one chance to take a shot at a big name this free agency, that will have a minimal impact on the salary cap after the following year. If we sign asik to 4 years 46 million and that represents 10% of the salary cap in two years, wouldn't it make far more sense to do 4 years 65 million and have it represent 14% of salary cap or throw the kitchen sink at someone else. Why settle for a 7th man on a good contract when you can get a starter on a good contract. Unless you honestly believe that monroe is not 4% better monetarily than asik is.
It most likely won't be easy to shed those contracts, but i think it is extremely important to try and look in another direction.
What % of the cap will Splitter be over the next 2 season and is Asik better than Splitter.
Being a prisoner of the moment is locking Asik up for the next 4 years. Immolation the Spurs is looking around corners and being 2 years ahead of everyone else.
I guess that's fair, but I think you are playing a dangerous game with the guys currently on your squad if you essentially punt on making a big leap next year so you can maybe have a shot at a big name in 2016.
I get your argument, but it's risky. I also think you might be weighing these two games more than the 27 post AS break that Asik played in. He was fantastic in his role IMO.
I got no problem with people not loving Asik. I don't love him. I just think it is easier said than done to replace him and get a comparable player for a comparable price.
Actually, Splitter's deal will be up when the cap goes up, so he will likely get paid way more than Asik for that reason. And Splitter has been absorbing a bigger portion of the cap the last two years.
Is Asik better than Splitter? I would say it depends on what you need. For our team? I say yes.
Im with you on that, but I think this is the summer to make a move you regret if there ever was a summer because of the cap increase the following year. I think its worth taking more risk this summer than any other summer
Look, I know Asik will always get grief, but I am pretty sure he will be back so I just hope people see the whole picture. And that includes a lot of very good play against teams not named the Warriors and a cap that will be very friendly to years 2 and beyond in his next contract.
I will stop now. I just don't want to see the one sided freak outs when he re-signs in July. There are two sides here.
I think you overestimate the ability to take a risky move. Again, I think you can throw max's at Jordan or Gasol and have no shot at getting them. I think that the best true center that will change teams is somebody like Brook Lopez. You want to throw 4/80 mil at him?
If it works out you are a top 3 team in the league. The only reason it doesn't is due to injury but atleast you take a swing while you can. I pull the trigger.
One more solution - How about 3 years, $32 million with his salaries declining?
You start him off at 12 million this year, when we won't have cap room anyway. Then, he makes 11 mil in year two - about 12% of the cap. And 10 mil in year 3 - About 9% of the cap.
NINE percent of the cap! That's basically equivalent to the MLE right now. Spencer Hawes gets the MLE. It's a win-win solution, no?
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Feels like the only move we can make is to get someone not quite as good as Quincy Pondexter or someone very aged like Morris Peterson, John Salmons, or whoever.
And I doubt we'd try to flip Ryno for a 1st rounder.
I am ALL for taking a swing. But I can't advocate that swing being Brook Lopez at 20 mil per year. That has Amare 2.0 written all over it.
May I ask why you are so sure he returns? Without the cap easing I'm sure they'll be other teams that could look at Asik as the defensives anchor.
What if Asik only wants a 1 year deal from us bc of the cap rise? That's something we haven't discussed yet.
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