Westbrooks Butt Kissing Media Trip/Dub Fawning! Stats be darn!

[Pelicantoo]

Also, AD got 39 points from 30 shots. Nobody's complaining about that. That's 1.3 points per shot taken vs Westbrooks 1.22 points per shot taken over the 4 game triple double stretch. And this is in NO WAY comparing the two talent wise. I LOVE AD. Have season tix. But come on. People are disregarding the elite level of 4 straight triple doubles. Oh he's 2-2. So what? This team, with people healthy, has lost some horrible games despite really good performances. It happens.

Their 2 losses were on the road vs 2 solid western conference teams and were close games or overtime.

I think we all kind-of are though. Respect to BSS for pointing it out in the recap, but AD taking that many shots really screwed up our flow and offensive rhythm. And we almost lost to Detroit because of it.

[UNO Gracias]

Westbrook for MVP seems similar to the 94-95 season when MJ retired and Pippen was suddenly the man (is anyone else old enough to remember that far back). Pippen had a great year, and had to fill the biggest shoes ever placed on a basketball court, and he did it (playing wise) splendidly. His avg was like 22/9/6/3 (more impressive than most recent MVP's minus the scoring), and finished 3rd in voting. He had the Bulls playing amazing ball in what (at the time) was a very dominant Eastern Conference. He arguably deserved it over the eventual winner Hakeem, but I remember (like it was yesterday) people on ESPN and otherwise saying, "Well he had a great season, but Jordan won it with better numbers." Because his teammate was arguably was the greatest player to ever skywalk across the NBA he got demerit points. It wasn't his fault he played at the same time as Jordan (but the same thing could be said for reasons why Malone & Stockton, and Barkley don't have titles).

I don't see Westbrook winning the title, but I see who his teammate is, as the reason he won't get as much traction as MVP.

Besides, Steph Currey is going to win it (or he should).

[UNO Gracias]

The MVP is a sham, I'll give you that (Lookin at you, Steve), but I don't agree that we'd be exaggerating him if he was here.

In the pseudo-similar comparison of Tyreke, Jimmy Butler, Wesley Matthews.... Tyreke's stats are arguably #1.

Now who here wouldn't trade Tyreke for either of them?

Also, I wouldn't call it a hang-up..... just a conversation...

I would take Reke over Matthews (call me crazy, but don't call me a Reke lover). I would take Butler over Reke, but of the third bananas out there I would say Reke is a top 10 3rd banana.

But he is a bench guy, and he is being used as a starter. Once he is allowed to play his natural role, we will see the true value of Reke.

[MichaelMcNamara]

X guy won't win a title is an easy argument to make because...... winning a title is really F'in tough.

Especially as the main guy. There are like 3-4 guys a generation capable of that. To compare Westbrook to Iverson is kinda fair IMO, though Westbrook is everything Iverson was but a better rebounder, slightly more efficient, and bigger - which helps in a few ways.

And Iverson got to a title game, and also won multiple playoff series w/o anybody close to Durant.

Saying that a team won't win a title with X guy at the helm isn't an insult to me. I mean, in the last 15 or so years, it's really only Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, and Duncan who has fit that criteria. I don't think that argument should be an insult at all.

[BallSoHard]

Our fanbase has such a little man's or a little market's syndrome it's pathetic.

[N.O.Bronco]

I see your stats and obviously, analytics are great for comparing players. They don't measure intangibles, passion, and leadership. If you're watching the NBA right now and failing to notice Westbrook basically keep OKC (by himself while Durant is out) in that 8th spot, then oh well.

Let me ask you a question, do you think Westbrook playing the way he has played is the only way this team could of gone 2-2 over his 4 trip-dub stretch?

I absolutely do not. He has a guy in Serge Ibaka who is a better catch and shoot 3 point player then Dirk this season. Yet he got 8 attempts last night. He has shooters all around him that hit at a good rate. Yet he took more 3 pointers then the rest of his starters combined.

Heck he has our beloved Morrow who helped lead our battered group to a nice stretch of wins with Evans late last year. That team has talent, I would argue a good bit. Probably a better set of role players and bench guys then a lot of playoff teams. I would bet most OKC fans and even Pelicans would say better then ours.

So to me Westbrook is choosing to play that way because thats what he knows. Thats what he is comfortable with. Has it been effective? If 2-2 is effective I guess, but to me I would much rather see a team do what we did and embrace team ball and growing role players that resulted in a 4-1 stretch then tell one guy to go win games for us and essentially indirectly tell the rest of the team you don't trust them enough to win.

[Pelicantoo]

X guy won't win a title is an easy argument to make because...... winning a title is really F'in tough.

Especially as the main guy. There are like 3-4 guys a generation capable of that. To compare Westbrook to Iverson is kinda fair IMO, though Westbrook is everything Iverson was but a better rebounder, slightly more efficient, and bigger - which helps in a few ways.

And Iverson got to a title game, and also won multiple playoff series w/o anybody close to Durant.

Saying that a team won't win a title with X guy at the helm isn't an insult to me. I mean, in the last 15 or so years, it's really only Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, and Duncan who has fit that criteria. I don't think that argument should be an insult at all.

I'm not intending to insult him, because it is really, really tough to win a championship. And I don't think the Iverson comparison is an insult either, because what he pulled off to get to the finals was remarkable. I mean we're talking about the best of the best of the best here. I tried to be clear that this isn't Westbrook hate by any stretch.

I've had this stance for a few years, so I might as well publicize it. I don't think the Thunder ever win a chip with Durant and Westbrook. I think that Russ' ceiling, much like Iversons (when you look at the subsequent Melo years), is getting to the Finals on a team specifically constructed around his high usage game. Im not saying Russ can't be the top banana on a championship contender, I'm saying he HAS to be.

You could say a lot of the same things about Chris Paul too, and a bunch of other guys. If I'm the GM of the Jazz... I take Westbrook over just about anyone. But, If I'm the GM of the Pelicans or Thunder, and I already have 20-25 efficient shots from a top 10 player, I don't need 25-30 more, less efficient ones coming from another guy. I'd rather a guy who's capable of being effective and efficient on 15 shots.

[Pelicantoo]

X guy won't win a title is an easy argument to make because...... winning a title is really F'in tough.

Especially as the main guy. There are like 3-4 guys a generation capable of that. To compare Westbrook to Iverson is kinda fair IMO, though Westbrook is everything Iverson was but a better rebounder, slightly more efficient, and bigger - which helps in a few ways.

And Iverson got to a title game, and also won multiple playoff series w/o anybody close to Durant.

Saying that a team won't win a title with X guy at the helm isn't an insult to me. I mean, in the last 15 or so years, it's really only Kobe, Shaq, Lebron, and Duncan who has fit that criteria. I don't think that argument should be an insult at all.

I'm not intending to insult him, because it is really, really tough to win a championship. And I don't think the Iverson comparison is an insult either, because what he pulled off to get to the finals was remarkable. I mean we're talking about the best of the best of the best here. I tried to be clear that this isn't Westbrook hate by any stretch.

I've had this stance for a few years, so I might as well publicize it. I don't think the Thunder ever win a chip with Durant and Westbrook. I think that Russ' ceiling, much like Iversons (when you look at the subsequent Melo years), is getting to the Finals on a team specifically constructed around his high usage game. Im not saying Russ can't be the top banana on a championship contender, I'm saying he HAS to be.

You could say a lot of the same things about Chris Paul too, and a bunch of other guys. If I'm the GM of the Jazz... I take Westbrook over just about anyone. But, If I'm the GM of the Pelicans or Thunder, and I already have 20-25 efficient shots from a top 10 player, I don't need 25-30 more, less efficient ones coming from another guy. I'd rather a guy who's capable of being effective and efficient on 15 shots.

[N.O.Bronco]

The MVP is a sham, I'll give you that (Lookin at you, Steve), but I don't agree that we'd be exaggerating him if he was here.

In the pseudo-similar comparison of Tyreke, Jimmy Butler, Wesley Matthews.... Tyreke's stats are arguably #1.

Now who here wouldn't trade Tyreke for either of them?

Also, I wouldn't call it a hang-up..... just a conversation...

I think it depends on which stats? Evans, like Westbrook, puts up pretty remarkable base stats. But when you dig deeper things don't look as pretty and guys like Butler and Matthews start to look a little, if not a lot more palatable to have on our roster.

[N.O.Bronco]

.

[Pelicantoo]

I think it depends on which stats? Evans, like Westbrook, puts up pretty remarkable base stats. But when you dig deeper things don't look as pretty and guys like Butler and Matthews start to look a little, if not a lot more palatable to have on our roster.

It's got to do with a host of things, including the eye test. I like things like low usage rate and high TS%... those matter to me and for this team (at least to me). This was in response to the suggestion that we would be clamoring about RW like the national media if he was on our team. But I think just like with AD last night, we would watch and say "Hey, that's nice, but what's up with 9 shots for Q and Gordon? Why are our assist totals down?" stuff like that.

[UptownFuz504]

I think we all kind-of are though. Respect to BSS for pointing it out in the recap, but AD taking that many shots really screwed up our flow and offensive rhythm. And we almost lost to Detroit because of it.

Good observation (you as well as BSS). It became a two man game last night. AD/Reke, Reke/AD. When the ball started moving was when the game changed for us

[fdavila120]

Let me ask you a question, do you think Westbrook playing the way he has played is the only way this team could of gone 2-2 over his 4 trip-dub stretch?

I absolutely do not. He has a guy in Serge Ibaka who is a better catch and shoot 3 point player then Dirk this season. Yet he got 8 attempts last night. He has shooters all around him that hit at a good rate. Yet he took more 3 pointers then the rest of his starters combined.

Heck he has our beloved Morrow who helped lead our battered group to a nice stretch of wins with Evans late last year. That team has talent, I would argue a good bit. Probably a better set of role players and bench guys then a lot of playoff teams. I would bet most OKC fans and even Pelicans would say better then ours.

So to me Westbrook is choosing to play that way because thats what he knows. Thats what he is comfortable with. Has it been effective? If 2-2 is effective I guess, but to me I would much rather see a team do what we did and embrace team ball and growing role players that resulted in a 4-1 stretch then tell one guy to go win games for us and essentially indirectly tell the rest of the team you don't trust them enough to win.

Its ok to disagree with me here. Hell, its what makes the NBA and this board. Personally, I think Westbrook is having an amazing season considering his team's situation. I don't think the numbers tell the whole story. He has gotten alot of media attention recently and deservedly so. Again, just my opinion. I would probably trade everyone not named Anthony Davis for him. Anybody else?

[UNO Gracias]

It's got to do with a host of things, including the eye test. I like things like low usage rate and high TS%... those matter to me and for this team (at least to me). This was in response to the suggestion that we would be clamoring about RW like the national media if he was on our team. But I think just like with AD last night, we would watch and say "Hey, that's nice, but what's up with 9 shots for Q and Gordon? Why are our assist totals down?" stuff like that.

What I said was based off of past precedence (regarding CP3 being an MVP candidate). People were furious we weren't getting the attention of Kobe or Lebron.

[N.O.Bronco]

It's got to do with a host of things, including the eye test. I like things like low usage rate and high TS%... those matter to me and for this team (at least to me). This was in response to the suggestion that we would be clamoring about RW like the national media if he was on our team. But I think just like with AD last night, we would watch and say "Hey, that's nice, but what's up with 9 shots for Q and Gordon? Why are our assist totals down?" stuff like that.

I agree 100%.

And the bolded are some of the stats I was referring to when I said "which stats." For instance Evans has a TS% of 49% on 25% usage while Butler has a 58% TS% on 21% Usage.

[Tinman]

I dislike how you only post selective stats. It bothers me.

He has 122 shots, yes. But he has 149 total points.

You say he has 5 turnovers per game because you assume everyone here is too lazy to find his total assists number, which is 42 assists vs 19 turnovers. A 2.21 assist to turnover ratio is fine with me. Especially with how aggressive of a player he is.

I also don't understand your core point. The media swoons over Westbrook but you're comparing him to AD? The media LOVES AD. They're completely infatuated by him and SportsCenter instantly tweeted saying "HE'S BACK" with his pic and stats posted. They always talk about him and write about him. These are poor points.

Does Westbrook shoot too much sometimes? Yea. But without Durant, that team is full of timid role players. You want Waiters shooting? If Ibaka's shot isn't falling on a particular night, his offensive game is done. He's got Roberson? Terrible on offense. The team, for better or worse, is built to ride the backs of two players, Westbrook and Durant.

The analogy was a comparison of quality vs. quantity !! What should bother you is that you are redundant ! Why would I repeat Reb. & assist stats? They are PART of the subplot of this thread.You know,the TRIPLE DOUBLE thing!We ALREADY knew that,RIGHT? I was stating FACTS that noone paid any attention to >like 120 shots in 4 games, like 16% from 3, like tons of turnovers, like 6-8 when he hogs the ball & 19-4 when he allows others to play. Just stats that noone was considering > So, I'm sorry if your bothered by your attention deficit, but there are ways to treat that! Good Luck!

BTW> AD was nonspecific analogy> I live in N.O., watched him play last night> easy comparison. & you best check good point guards Turnover ratios ! 2 to 1 is NOT GOOD! I think CP3 would quit if his ratio was that bad!

CP3 Assist to TO ratio is 4.9 to 1

[Tinman]

I think we all kind-of are though. Respect to BSS for pointing it out in the recap, but AD taking that many shots really screwed up our flow and offensive rhythm. And we almost lost to Detroit because of it.

Who kept us afloat w/out AD & Ryno? REKE, w/ double-double after double-double, w/ WAYYY less talent around him than Westbrook has! & everybody rips Reke to shreds!

[Tinman]

Our fanbase has such a little man's or a little market's syndrome it's pathetic.

Dont Hit & Run!! Elaborate !

[Pelicantoo]

Who kept us afloat w/out AD & Ryno? REKE, w/ double-double after double-double, w/ WAYYY less talent around him than Westbrook has! & everybody rips Reke to shreds!

I'm not a fan of politicians

[UNO Gracias]

Dont Hit & Run!! Elaborate !

Does he have to? It seems pretty cut and dry. This thread is just further proof. We want to be the cool kids of the NBA, but right now we are the brother to the friend of the guy that knows the cool kids.

[Mythrol]

[Tinman]

To your point, if Westbrook goes all out for another triple-double tonight against the Bulls, they'll probably go home with a loss. I'm good with that.

Nostradamus you are akin,yes? Good ole Russ stuffs the stat sheet again,doin his BALLIN! He was awesome again!! Congrats, DarkHornet on your prophetic post!Once again> Good job,Russ! Keep on ballin baby!

[ThaTerrapin]

The analogy was a comparison of quality vs. quantity !! What should bother you is that you are redundant ! Why would I repeat Reb. & assist stats? They are PART of the subplot of this thread.You know,the TRIPLE DOUBLE thing!We ALREADY knew that,RIGHT? I was stating FACTS that noone paid any attention to >like 120 shots in 4 games, like 16% from 3, like tons of turnovers, like 6-8 when he hogs the ball & 19-4 when he allows others to play. Just stats that noone was considering > So, I'm sorry if your bothered by your attention deficit, but there are ways to treat that! Good Luck!

BTW> AD was nonspecific analogy> I live in N.O., watched him play last night> easy comparison. & you best check good point guards Turnover ratios ! 2 to 1 is NOT GOOD! I think CP3 would quit if his ratio was that bad!

CP3 Assist to TO ratio is 4.9 to 1

You're*
No one* (it's not one word...)
Why do you use random symbols like ">" when you're not saying "greater than"?
Why are you capitalizing random words in the sentence?
Why is their a space before every punctuation? Good God.
Reading your posts is like a chore. It's garbled, mangled, and nonsensical. It's like you're trying to make a ransom note via regular text.

[Tinman]

You're*
No one* (it's not one word...)
Why do you use random symbols like ">" when you're not saying "greater than"?
Why are you capitalizing random words in the sentence?
Why is their a space before every punctuation? Good God.
Reading your posts is like a chore. It's garbled, mangled, and nonsensical. It's like you're trying to make a ransom note via regular text.

It's rough for you, because you're struggling w/ the original discussion!thats ok ! I have big fingers & enjoy watching the pettiness over grammar & typing arise to compensate and misdirection from actual discussion. The strangest,simplest & most meaningless things seem to bother you! But I think that only happens when you are trying to misdirect from the actual conversation .

[ThaTerrapin]

The analogy was a comparison of quality vs. quantity !! What should bother you is that you are redundant ! Why would I repeat Reb. & assist stats? They are PART of the subplot of this thread.You know,the TRIPLE DOUBLE thing!We ALREADY knew that,RIGHT? I was stating FACTS that noone paid any attention to >like 120 shots in 4 games, like 16% from 3, like tons of turnovers, like 6-8 when he hogs the ball & 19-4 when he allows others to play. Just stats that noone was considering > So, I'm sorry if your bothered by your attention deficit, but there are ways to treat that! Good Luck!

BTW> AD was nonspecific analogy> I live in N.O., watched him play last night> easy comparison. & you best check good point guards Turnover ratios ! 2 to 1 is NOT GOOD! I think CP3 would quit if his ratio was that bad!

CP3 Assist to TO ratio is 4.9 to 1

Do you also not realize that most of the talented guards in the nba are at or near a 2:1 ratio?

Since you stressed 2 to 1 isn't good with ALL CAPS, I'll instantly shut this terrible comment down, as follows:

Do you consider these players NOT GOOD:

Lillard
Rondo
Rose
Bledsoe
Kyrie
Conley
Dragic
Parker
MCW
Curry
Wall

Because I can count 7 of those guys off the top of my head that have been all-stars. One may be the mvp this year. That's 11 point guards at or near 2:1. Take a seat. You're not good at this.