Noah gets constant praise---Omer, not so much ! WHY ???

[Tinman]

He was voted defensive player of the year and first team all defensive team twice, once by the coaches and once by writers-- looking at stats.

He averaged more assists and more steals.

Things that stats don't pick up are how many empty possessions Asik has contributed to-- ie blocked shots that had no chance to score in the first place-- Asik probably has his shot blocked at least three to four times per game on top of his turnovers that's about 5 -7 turnovers per game. On top of this, Asik provides no spacing which again is not represented by statistics. No defender has to guard Asik. It's not necessary. Thus, it clogs the lane for tyreke, jrue and Anthony davis.

This is so dumb it's ridiculous. any more brain busters? I've never said anything about Noah screaming and I don't post that often- like 193 times over the course of 5 years, so I don't know how you know what I'm like when I post. I just post when idiots say really dumb things to make sure they dont post again because this forum can be so freaking dumb sometimes. This argument is just like the, "jimmer is as good as Norris cole because their stats are the same" argument, which people actually believed and tried to make.

You make stuff up! Who said Jimmer was better than Cole?(someone trolling that fooled you)maybe?! Who said that you said Noah screams? Nobody! It was part of MM's synopsis as to why Noah is overhyped,

You keep finding fault w/Asik about his offense, but you never quantify the fact that his offensive stats>, both shooting & turnovers are better than Noahs.You never explain how a guy that shoots 43% from 3ft can spread the court & you dont explain how he has almost twice as many turnovers OR how Asik has to guard beast almost every night in the west/ Lets just START here>>>> How do you explain 43% shooting for a lowlowlow post center? lets start there.... No wait, I know what you're gonna do! Real Stats can be sticky for you,so you are gonna say> This is a stupid argument,so i wont answer the questions> I'm just gonna keep harping on Omers stats, so everyone forgets that Noahs stats are worse. I got it! NOTE: Its 43% from 3Ft, not 3pt ! Thats Putrid!

[NMThreeMVP]

How does Asik give us nothing on offense? He's low usage but scores at an efficient rate.

He's not a post threat. He's not a dive threat. He's not an above the rim guy. He's got terrible hands on dump offs.

The fact that usage rate and efficiency numbers can blind you to his liability on offense is why guys like Barkley hate advanced stats.

Asik may be efficient, but our offense is less efficient. Our guards have fewer options on drives because of Asik. We have no post option at all when Asik is in the game. Yet, if Ajinca or a competent offensive player was in the game, we could at least throw it in to him. We can't even throw it in to Asik because he will likely turn it over. Asik's turnovers are actually alarming considering his very low usage rate and the quality of that usage (he's getting point blank dump offs or put backs under the rim). Given how he's used (or not used) on offense, if he was actually an efficient offensive player, his efficiency would be much, much higher.

Stats can lie.

[Tinman]

He's not a post threat. He's not a dive threat. He's not an above the rim guy. He's got terrible hands on dump offs.

The fact that usage rate and efficiency numbers can blind you to his liability on offense is why guys like Barkley hate advanced stats.

Asik may be efficient, but our offense is less efficient. Our guards have fewer options on drives because of Asik. We have no post option at all when Asik is in the game. Yet, if Ajinca or a competent offensive player was in the game, we could at least throw it in to him. We can't even throw it in to Asik because he will likely turn it over. Asik's turnovers are actually alarming considering his very low usage rate and the quality of that usage (he's getting point blank dump offs or put backs under the rim). Given how he's used (or not used) on offense, if he was actually an efficient offensive player, his efficiency would be much, much higher.

Stats can lie.

Thats all good and stuff, but the comparison was Noah & Asik ! I'm not claiming Omer is an offensive juggarnaut, but Noah is worse. Ajinca has killer offensive skills, unfortunately hes very clumsy on defense, cant defend the pick & roll & is VERYYYYYslow on backside help.
And again, everyone praises Noah & he is atrocious on offense, but condemn Omer for being a tad better than Noah. I dont follow.

[heybigmatt]

Asik is take 5.2 shot attempts per game and shooting 52% from the field. It is literally impossible that he is getting blocked 3-4 times a game.

You don't like Asik? That's fine. Plenty of people don't because he isn't flashy and is a defensive player instead of offensive. But please don't make up stuff to try and bolster your argument.

The truth is he isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be especially when you compare him with other centers out there. He's a tier 2 center in the league but everyone is complaining about him not giving tier 1 production.

I think Asik is fine. I don't think we can win a championship with him. That is all. Watch tonight and count how many times he gets blocked/swiped. Id say the over under is 2.5 and I bet most people would take the over.

[Tinman]

I think Asik is fine. I don't think we can win a championship with him. That is all. Watch tonight and count how many times he gets blocked/swiped. Id say the over under is 2.5 and I bet most people would take the over.

Once again.your focus remains on Asik, but you fail to have an answer for Noahs atrcious stats on offense. BTW> its much easier to play defense for Noah when the teams he is playing against every night, suck !
Who played center for San Antonio>. TIAGO SPLITTER !! & who played Center for Miami ? Nobody(by committee) Get a bigtime #3 to go with AD & Asik fits nicely!

[NMThreeMVP]

So let's all put it down here. Considering where the cap is going, what is the max contract you won't complain about when we resign Asik?

I will go 4/48

Only way I give Omer a 4th year is if it's a team option or if the average salary is discounted because of it. He'll be 32 going into that year, and centers don't age well. If it's even possible, I expect he'll be even worse on offense at that point, and injuries/wear will make him less effective on defense. Not necessarily a knock on Omer, it's just what happens at that position.

I think I would offer him 2 options.

4yrs /36m w/a player option after year and after year 3.
4yrs /42m w/ a team option on 4th year

[NMThreeMVP]

Thats all good and stuff, but the comparison was Noah & Asik ! I'm not claiming Omer is an offensive juggarnaut, but Noah is worse. Ajinca has killer offensive skills, unfortunately hes very clumsy on defense, cant defend the pick & roll & is VERYYYYYslow on backside help.
And again, everyone praises Noah & he is atrocious on offense, but condemn Omer for being a tad better than Noah. I dont follow.

I wasn't replying to you. But that being said, let's condemn them both! Omer being better than Noah is irrelevant. I don't care who praises our players. I only care if they can help me get a day off to watch a championship parade!

[Tinman]

I wasn't replying to you. But that being said, let's condemn them both! Omer being better than Noah is irrelevant. I don't care who praises our players. I only care if they can help me get a day off to watch a championship parade!

OK,thats cool ! It is a Asik/Noah thread, though Thu,s the title

[heybigmatt]

Once again.your focus remains on Asik, but you fail to have an answer for Noahs atrcious stats on offense. BTW> its much easier to play defense for Noah when the teams he is playing against every night, suck !
Who played center for San Antonio>. TIAGO SPLITTER !! & who played Center for Miami ? Nobody(by committee) Get a bigtime #3 to go with AD & Asik fits nicely!

lets say for the sake of argument that Omer Asik is better at scoring than noah. What else is asik better than noah at? Passing - nope, catching nope, rebounding nope, shot blocking nope- steals- nope. And defense within 10 and 6 feet ill say is a draw even though it looks like noah has the edge on that as well looking at differential. Asik has "less" turnovers but I say that is debateable but ill give it to asik as well. This is why noah gets more money than asik-- does it make sense now. I looked up facts for you.

Coupled with the fact that the nations sports writers and coaches all agree with me, id say I have a little more "proof" than you do. I said noah is better than Asik, I didn't say noah is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then again it isn't that difficult to be better than asik.

[ThaTerrapin]

This is such a preposterous comparison. Are their numbers similar this year? Yes. This one guy keeps throwing out 43% FG for Noah like we're supposed to only regard 50 total games when comparing two players.

I'll even unfairly compare Noah's best year vs Asik's, even though Noah has had 6 better seasons than Asik has. If you inflate Asik's stats from 30mpg to 36.8mpg (which was Noah's) Noah averaged 0.49 points less, 3.25 rebounds less, but 2.9 assists more per, 0.75 blocks more, 0.46 steals more, only 0.12 turnovers per game more even with handling the ball WAY WAY MORE. Noah's assist to turnover ratio was 1.481 vs Asik's at 0.426. Pretty big difference. Noah's FG% was .060 less at 48% vs 54%, but Noah had a 4.9 difference between FGM vs FGA and Asik had 4.3. Not much of a difference. 0.6 shots per game more missed for Noah. But, Noah's FT% was 0.191 better than Asik's. Asik averaged 1.0ppg left at the FT line more than Noah.

Who would you rather then?

Noah positives: emotional leader of the team, anchor of a top 3 defense for years. Has had 6 better seasons than Asik. Comparing their best years, Noah 3.63 times the amount of assists per game than Asik, 0.75 blocks per game more, 0.46 steals per game more, a 3.5 times better assist to turnover ratio, 75% FT vs Asik's 56% which, in turn, means Asik left an average of 1.0ppg on the FT line more than Noah. The only thing Asik had a decent win on was rebounds, at 3.25 more per.

This is also inflating Asik's stats evenly over 7 additional minutes per game which is generally unlikely to happen. I don't think it's really likely personally because Asik gases out more than Noah historically.

I won't even get into Asik's hands or generally god awful offensive game. He gets his **** absolutely stuffed once a game easy. He got highlight blocked by Westbrook. He's as athletic as Terry Schiavo, who I heard can't really move well. He's the Michael Jordan of baseball of the Pelicans.

Having said that, I'd take him at about 8-10 mil for 3 years with the cap spike upcoming. And that is because the NBA has atrociously limited talent at center nowadays. Good day, gentlemen.

[heybigmatt]

This is such a preposterous comparison. Are their numbers similar this year? Yes. This one guy keeps throwing out 43% FG for Noah like we're supposed to only regard 50 total games when comparing two players.

I'll even unfairly compare Noah's best year vs Asik's, even though Noah has had 6 better seasons than Asik has. If you inflate Asik's stats from 30mpg to 36.8mpg (which was Noah's) Noah averaged 0.49 points less, 3.25 rebounds less, but 2.9 assists more per, 0.75 blocks more, 0.46 steals more, only 0.12 turnovers per game more even with handling the ball WAY WAY MORE. Noah's assist to turnover ratio was 1.481 vs Asik's at 0.426. Pretty big difference. Noah's FG% was .060 less at 48% vs 54%, but Noah had a 4.9 difference between FGM vs FGA and Asik had 4.3. Not much of a difference. 0.6 shots per game more missed for Noah. But, Noah's FT% was 0.191 better than Asik's. Asik averaged 1.0ppg left at the FT line more than Noah.

Who would you rather then?

Noah positives: emotional leader of the team, anchor of a top 3 defense for years. Has had 6 better seasons than Asik. Comparing their best years, Noah 3.63 times the amount of assists per game than Asik, 0.75 blocks per game more, 0.46 steals per game more, a 3.5 times better assist to turnover ratio, 75% FT vs Asik's 56% which, in turn, means Asik left an average of 1.0ppg on the FT line more than Noah. The only thing Asik had a decent win on was rebounds, at 3.25 more per.

This is also inflating Asik's stats evenly over 7 additional minutes per game which is generally unlikely to happen. I don't think it's really likely personally because Asik gases out more than Noah historically.

I won't even get into Asik's hands or generally god awful offensive game. He gets his **** absolutely stuffed once a game easy. He got highlight blocked by Westbrook. He's as athletic as Terry Schiavo, who I heard can't really move well. He's the Michael Jordan of baseball of the Pelicans.

Having said that, I'd take him at about 8-10 mil for 3 years with the cap spike upcoming. And that is because the NBA has atrociously limited talent at center nowadays. Good day, gentlemen.

Thank you for doing this for me. I'd go one year less on the contract but hey everything you said is right on.

[oasik]

In my opinion, Noah is better offensively and Omer is better defensively. Well, you can ask Thibodeau who has put Omer into the floor instead of Noah in the entire 4th quarter when he needed defensive stops (BTW, I do not know why Monty does not do that, this year)

[speedyG]

He's not a post threat. He's not a dive threat. He's not an above the rim guy. He's got terrible hands on dump offs.

The fact that usage rate and efficiency numbers can blind you to his liability on offense is why guys like Barkley hate advanced stats.

Asik may be efficient, but our offense is less efficient. Our guards have fewer options on drives because of Asik. We have no post option at all when Asik is in the game. Yet, if Ajinca or a competent offensive player was in the game, we could at least throw it in to him. We can't even throw it in to Asik because he will likely turn it over. Asik's turnovers are actually alarming considering his very low usage rate and the quality of that usage (he's getting point blank dump offs or put backs under the rim). Given how he's used (or not used) on offense, if he was actually an efficient offensive player, his efficiency would be much, much higher.

Stats can lie.

Agreed. Asik only takes the easiest 2 footers, and we generally try to avoid giving him the ball anywhere else. I would hope his FG% is decent.

[lsutigers33]

I can't handle watching him anymore