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Thread: Norris Cole, Quincy Pondexter, and Dante Cunningham. ..

  1. #26
    personally i think Dante is the reason we won/pulled ahead late last night

  2. #27
    Jimeert Freedet 4 Prez IamQuailman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugeaux II View Post
    Seems like as good a place as any to mention that the TP comments drive me up the wall as well. While I don't like their coverage either, the stuff coming from some of the people that run this place about the TP I think discredits this site more than it points out the shortcomings of the TP. Once upon a time it would have been weird to say 'it's unprofessional' about a website, and sites could get away with juvenile antics because it was the web and 'edgy' or whatever, but even then this site has never been about click-bait and hot takes. We seem to treat some of our crazy posters with more respect than credentialed professional reporters, and even if they may not deserve it, there is a more professional way of pointing out the mistakes in the TP.
    Glad I'm not the only one that feels this way!



  3. #28
    I think one of the big reasons they look just league average is because we don't have good defensive measurement stats. Both of them are better on that side of the court and are average offensively.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    I think one of the big reasons they look just league average is because we don't have good defensive measurement stats. Both of them are better on that side of the court and are average offensively.
    Not to mention, people don't consider role when looking at stats. What is a player being asked to do for that team? Norris Cole is not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Miami, and it will be even more different when Jrue returns.

    Like I said in my piece, if the guy is gonna be on the court for 40 possessions, and he shoots 4 times, why such a heavy emphasis on those 4 possessions over the other 36? And the reason is that the other 36 are so hard to measure, so we don't bother.
    @mcnamara247

  5. #30
    The Franchise DarkHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Not to mention, people don't consider role when looking at stats. What is a player being asked to do for that team? Norris Cole is not being asked to do the same thing here as he was in Miami, and it will be even more different when Jrue returns.

    Like I said in my piece, if the guy is gonna be on the court for 40 possessions, and he shoots 4 times, why such a heavy emphasis on those 4 possessions over the other 36? And the reason is that the other 36 are so hard to measure, so we don't bother.
    I don't have any metrics to back it up either, but these guys appear to be great "glue" guys. It's still a small sample size, but our team just looks a lot more composed late game with these guys on board. I also love when I see Cole come in for defensive possessions late in the game when we need stops. I can't say I ever got particularly excited to see either Rivers or Salmons come on the court. At this point, the only person I groan when he hits the floor is Ferdette.

    I don't think we can undersell how much value there is in having Pondexter and Cole come over from teams that KNOW how to win. Anyone who doesn't believe that leadership intangibles aren't terribly important would have to look no further than the mess of the 2014 New Orleans Saints. They were a team that should have been improved on paper, but gave up way too much in veteran leadership all at one time.

  6. #31
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Quailman and Heuxgeaux ... it wasn't out of place for the OP to point out what Jimmy Smith said in his Cole article. Jimmy deserves to be called out for this one, considering what he said. Furthermore, it's not like Jimmy Smith gets attacked on the daily, so I think that you both overstate the severity of some of our posters complaints.

  7. #32
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Actually, it was Tipoff who mentioned the article, and I think that it was appropriate to do so

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkHornet View Post
    I don't have any metrics to back it up either, but these guys appear to be great "glue" guys. It's still a small sample size, but our team just looks a lot more composed late game with these guys on board. I also love when I see Cole come in for defensive possessions late in the game when we need stops. I can't say I ever got particularly excited to see either Rivers or Salmons come on the court. At this point, the only person I groan when he hits the floor is Ferdette.

    I don't think we can undersell how much value there is in having Pondexter and Cole come over from teams that KNOW how to win. Anyone who doesn't believe that leadership intangibles aren't terribly important would have to look no further than the mess of the 2014 New Orleans Saints. They were a team that should have been improved on paper, but gave up way too much in veteran leadership all at one time.
    Devils Advocate would ask if these guys can be relied upon when the game goes to another level in the playoffs. Cole and Q-Pon both had one good playoff run, but there is no doubt that they would be overmatched talent wise against the top teams. Of the top 10 teams in the West, Q-Pon would probably be the worst starting SF if asked to play that role. Cole, an average backup PG at best.

    The question is: Are these two solid to good or were the previous guys just so awful that below average looks good and puts us over the top against bad teams? I don't know. Personally, I want one more SF so Pondexter can be a 18-20 min bench guy, not a 26 mpg starter. Cole, I am fine with as a 12-15 min backup. DC is tough for me. I go back and forth on him all the time with regards to whether he can be a rotation guy on a high level playoff team.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Real View Post
    That is the head coach who has brought the team together. Monty deserves coach of the year as well.
    LMAO
    CAW CAW!!!

    -Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-

  10. #35
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Personally, I think that all 3 would be solid bench contributors in a playoff run. All 3 don't seem to get fazed when something isn't working for them. If any of them are struggling on offense, you can rely on a great defensive effort, which is important.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by luigi modelo View Post
    Personally, I think that all 3 would be solid bench contributors in a playoff run. All 3 don't seem to get fazed when something isn't working for them. If any of them are struggling on offense, you can rely on a great defensive effort, which is important.
    But great teams have guys who give 100% effort and have high levels of talent. Rotations get shortened in the playoffs. We are talking about the best of the best here. You aren't playing Denver or a team like Miami, Brooklyn, etc. if you are the Pels. You are gonna play 4 elite teams if you wanna win it all from the Western Conference. A team like GS will shorten its bench and probably just play Iggy, Davis Lee, and Livingston. Maybe Speights who has been great. Maybe.

    Again, I love the guys. Just playing Devils Advocate. The playoffs is a whole new level and you will be going against the best of the best night in and night out. Playing harder than the other guy isn't as likely any more. Comes down to skill at that point.

  12. #37

    Underswtand where you coming from...however

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    But great teams have guys who give 100% effort and have high levels of talent. Rotations get shortened in the playoffs. We are talking about the best of the best here. You aren't playing Denver or a team like Miami, Brooklyn, etc. if you are the Pels. You are gonna play 4 elite teams if you wanna win it all from the Western Conference. A team like GS will shorten its bench and probably just play Iggy, Davis Lee, and Livingston. Maybe Speights who has been great. Maybe.

    Again, I love the guys. Just playing Devils Advocate. The playoffs is a whole new level and you will be going against the best of the best night in and night out. Playing harder than the other guy isn't as likely any more. Comes down to skill at that point.
    these three are arguably our top 3/4 on man defensive players. They allow the others to be who they are. I can argue they are just as important on defensive as Tyreke is on offense. in the playoffs, you don't advance without D. They don't hurt the team but only adds to it.

  13. #38
    The Franchise DarkHornet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Devils Advocate would ask if these guys can be relied upon when the game goes to another level in the playoffs. Cole and Q-Pon both had one good playoff run, but there is no doubt that they would be overmatched talent wise against the top teams. Of the top 10 teams in the West, Q-Pon would probably be the worst starting SF if asked to play that role. Cole, an average backup PG at best.

    The question is: Are these two solid to good or were the previous guys just so awful that below average looks good and puts us over the top against bad teams? I don't know. Personally, I want one more SF so Pondexter can be a 18-20 min bench guy, not a 26 mpg starter. Cole, I am fine with as a 12-15 min backup. DC is tough for me. I go back and forth on him all the time with regards to whether he can be a rotation guy on a high level playoff team.
    Oh, don't mistake me as saying "we're there; we're done." We certainly need more pieces. I'm just appreciating the incremental improvement, perhaps mixed with a bit too much optimism.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by sterlr View Post
    these three are arguably our top 3/4 on man defensive players. They allow the others to be who they are. I can argue they are just as important on defensive as Tyreke is on offense. in the playoffs, you don't advance without D. They don't hurt the team but only adds to it.
    Pondexter got abused time and time again last night by multiple Nuggets wing players. He also is light and has been taken down to the post rather easily by 2's and 3's. If you try to play DC at the 4 against Memphis or GS with David Lee off the bench, he will get eaten alive.

    I don't want to bash on these guys, because I really like them and I appreciate them. But the playoffs is a whole new level and we have been beating some terrible teams lately. All well below .500 except for Toronto, who has been playing terribly - lost 5 straight.

    I love what is going on now, but I will not assume a carry over to the highest level.

  15. #40
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    I like what you are saying MM, and I think that is how we should be looking at it. Having said that, there is a comfort level that I have with these guys, that I think would translate to solid playoff performances. Obviously, we have to see it in action, but I do feel comfortable, at least.

  16. #41
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    We definitely need to address the starting 3 in the offseason, with future playoffs in mind.

  17. #42
    Band of Skulls & Neon Trees ramsters60's Avatar
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    I guess I'm short sighted, but I would be ecstatic if there was a sufficient carryover to tonight.....
    "we might make dollars, but we don't necessarily make sense"

    "always be sincere....whether you mean it or not"

  18. #43
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    With guys that have that 'intangibles' reputation like DC, Q, and Cole where we are clearly seeing it with the eye test, but nothing shows up in the stats, I'm sure part of it is that stats haven't captured defense as well as offense yet, and as posted above these guys even at replacement level are better than what was out there before - but shouldn't 'something' show up in the numbers of their teammates if not for them personally?The infectious hustle plays that are turning in to stops, rebounds, turnovers and buckets have to show up in somebody's stats right? Either other guys on our squad should see some kind of uptick, or we are holding the opposition in some way where they'd have a downtick? Maybe the numbers guys have t figured it out yet, but it should be in the numbers somewhere...

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Pondexter got abused time and time again last night by multiple Nuggets wing players. He also is light and has been taken down to the post rather easily by 2's and 3's. If you try to play DC at the 4 against Memphis or GS with David Lee off the bench, he will get eaten alive.

    I don't want to bash on these guys, because I really like them and I appreciate them. But the playoffs is a whole new level and we have been beating some terrible teams lately. All well below .500 except for Toronto, who has been playing terribly - lost 5 straight.

    I love what is going on now, but I will not assume a carry over to the highest level.
    We go from 2% of making the playoffs to worried about how these 3 will play in deep runs? lol.

    Come on, let's just be happy that we finally have at least league average backup players. I'm not expecting this year for us to make a deep run and the cap makes a huge jump after next year. If possible I'd like to keep the league average talent we have now and try to upgrade it as we move forward.

    I'm not really worried how they will play in the WCF just yet. lol

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    We go from 2% of making the playoffs to worried about how these 3 will play in deep runs? lol.

    Come on, let's just be happy that we finally have at least league average backup players. I'm not expecting this year for us to make a deep run and the cap makes a huge jump after next year. If possible I'd like to keep the league average talent we have now and try to upgrade it as we move forward.

    I'm not really worried how they will play in the WCF just yet. lol
    To be clear, I was not referring to this year at all. I am looking at it as a long term thing. As Dell heads to this summer, he has some decisions to make on at least two of these guys, and a third in a way because he has to decide whether to go after a SF who can replace Q-Pon in the starting lineup or roll with Q-Pon there

  21. #46
    Most teams don't have a Evans and Holliday at PG and a Davis and Anderson at PF. This is where Dell needs to make moves and free up cash. To have a AA, DC, QP, And Cole off bench is decent depth.

    I am not sure how GS can resign D Green, that would be a nice piece if EG opts out and we make some trades.

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