Has the Asik experiment failed?

[djrnno]

Wanting a better offensive guy than Asik who is a little worse on defense (but not much) is so great in theory. But again, where is that guy, what does he cost, and how sure are you that we can get him?

This is what Dell has to deal with in the real world, outside of the fantasies of the message board

My problem with Asik is not so much on D . His hands are atrocious , He seems to be good for at least 3-4 TO's a game just because he has bad hands alone. My question MM is this since I am not a B ball expert . First of all can we win a Championship with Asik , band hands and all ? If not so much , Is there a guy we can get in the offseason that can be that guy? My other question is , EG will come off the books if not this offseason then next could we sign Asik to a 1yr deal and use that EG money to get the real guy at C that will get us to a championship ?

[MichaelMcNamara]

My problem with Asik is not so much on D . His hands are atrocious , He seems to be good for at least 3-4 TO's a game just because he has bad hands alone. My question MM is this since I am not a B ball expert . First of all can we win a Championship with Asik , band hands and all ? If not so much , Is there a guy we can get in the offseason that can be that guy? My other question is , EG will come off the books if not this offseason then next could we sign Asik to a 1yr deal and use that EG money to get the real guy at C that will get us to a championship ?

First, the numbers here are a little exaggerated. Just because you feel like you saw X doesn't mean X happened. Our memories are a strange thing.

Can we win a title with him? Sure, if he is getting the 6th or 7th most mins on a team (which he was when we were healthy). Is there any realistic get this offseason who can be better? Monroe, I guess, but if the goal is to win a title, you gotta be a top 10 defensive team. Don't know if AD/Monroe can ever accomplish that.

Most likely path would be to keep Asik and get an actual night in, night out dominant perimeter player to pair with AD. Not 3 average to slightly above average ones, but one dominant one.

[tdcreator]

I think Asik is a good backup or at least until he can develop any kind of offensive game or hands. I'd keep Asik for 8-10 and Ryno or I'd like Monroe and Asik but trade Ryno.

[NOSportsFan]

What we all have to look at, in one phrase, is called "Opportunity Cost". To define, it's what you're giving up to do something else.
EX: We will more than likely have to pay Asik somewhere in the 8-12 Mill range (Lowball/highball).
The question Mr. McNamara is asking is if there is anyone that we could get in that range that we believe would be an upgrade?
Some names have surfaced and arguments thrown about for/against. Don't limit the discussion to just those names. For me, I would like to see us go after Myles Plumlee. He was just traded away from PHX, and is in the last year of his rookie deal. An athletic big, who is still developing his game, but who has made strides in improvement.

To the OP: No the experiment has not been a failure. No experiment is a failure. It just disproves your hypothesis. Has Asik been what we expected of him? Yes. Has he been an all-star, world-beating, future h.o.f and G.o.A.T? No..Far from it. Has he been what we needed? I would say yes. He has met our expectations of the player we knew we were getting, but not the one fans envisioned him to be. If we separate fan eyes from team eyes, the experiment is going ok.

[N.O.Bronco]

What we all have to look at, in one phrase, is called "Opportunity Cost". To define, it's what you're giving up to do something else.
EX: We will more than likely have to pay Asik somewhere in the 8-12 Mill range (Lowball/highball).
The question Mr. McNamara is asking is if there is anyone that we could get in that range that we believe would be an upgrade?
Some names have surfaced and arguments thrown about for/against. Don't limit the discussion to just those names. For me, I would like to see us go after Myles Plumlee. He was just traded away from PHX, and is in the last year of his rookie deal. An athletic big, who is still developing his game, but who has made strides in improvement.

To the OP: No the experiment has not been a failure. No experiment is a failure. It just disproves your hypothesis. Has Asik been what we expected of him? Yes. Has he been an all-star, world-beating, future h.o.f and G.o.A.T? No..Far from it. Has he been what we needed? I would say yes. He has met our expectations of the player we knew we were getting, but not the one fans envisioned him to be. If we separate fan eyes from team eyes, the experiment is going ok.

I think the very reason we are having this thread is that a lot of people think he hasn't met the expectations they had for him. That would include me. I thought I would be getting a little more defensively, and while I always knew he wasn't great offensively, he has been painful.

I do honestly think that some of it comes from the guys around him and maybe even the system itself. And if the price is right I'm not opposed to retaining him. But I wouldn't want to spend 12+ million a year.

If we are talking oppurtunity costs I think very realistically this team could bundle together Ryno and maybe sign and trade Asik(this is a bigger If because he could get offended but if not could still be done without him) and acquire A guy like Greg Monroe and others if Asik agreed to a sign and trade somewhere. If Asik didn't the Pistons would still die for Ryno. Then use the remaining money to Fill in holes.

[IamQuailman]

In Asik's defense, without Davis, he has really shown up and come to play these last 3 games.

[NOSportsFan]

I think the very reason we are having this thread is that a lot of people think he hasn't met the expectations they had for him. That would include me. I thought I would be getting a little more defensively, and while I always knew he wasn't great offensively, he has been painful.

I do honestly think that some of it comes from the guys around him and maybe even the system itself. And if the price is right I'm not opposed to retaining him. But I wouldn't want to spend 12+ million a year.

If we are talking oppurtunity costs I think very realistically this team could bundle together Ryno and maybe sign and trade Asik(this is a bigger If because he could get offended but if not could still be done without him) and acquire A guy like Greg Monroe and others if Asik agreed to a sign and trade somewhere. If Asik didn't the Pistons would still die for Ryno. Then use the remaining money to Fill in holes.

I wouldn't sign and trade Asik. That lets him into the conversation of where he's going. I would be hard pressed to let him into that conversation.
I wouldn't sign Monroe. He has stated , plainly iirc, that he is a 4 not a 5 and would go somewhere where he can play 4. We have a 4. We need a 5. Why bring in someone who will be unhappy from the jump off?
Before this discussion gets too far off base, let us let the season finish out and see who actually enters free agency. Teams will negotiate buy outs, rosters will be cut, amnesties will be handed out. For the next few months let us enjoy what we have and hope that we get healthy in time for a strong playoff push.

To the OP: I restate. The experiment has not been a failure. Asik has been what the team expected him to be. Maybe not what we, as fans, expected him to be. There is another side of this I could delve into, but I will refrain for now. The experiment, while not resounding, has been a moderate success.

[da ThRONe]

I think the one angle with retaining Asik that's not being talked about is his willingness to stay with the team. He's unrestricted. He may end up being on a different team next year by his own choice. Yeah there's a deep center FA group, but some of those teams are going to lose there starting center or miss out on the top guys and will have a need. So it may not come down to whether we want to keep Asik or not. It may come down to whether or not Asik wants to be here.

[UNO Gracias]

I agree with da Throne. This is a two way street. Some team is going to go all Knicks on Jermaine Jones on some player this year, could it be Asik?

All things being said, I don't think the Asik move is a bust, I have liked it, and want it to continue. I would also like to see him get back into a gym with a trainer, or go hang out with Hakeem or Ewing. Go work with an old superstar and develop his game more. It's not asking a whole lot, it's just asking him to do what every superstar does. Go grow your game Asik. You can be a top 10 center.

[Mythrol]

I agree with da Throne. This is a two way street. Some team is going to go all Knicks on Jermaine Jones on some player this year, could it be Asik?

All things being said, I don't think the Asik move is a bust, I have liked it, and want it to continue. I would also like to see him get back into a gym with a trainer, or go hang out with Hakeem or Ewing. Go work with an old superstar and develop his game more. It's not asking a whole lot, it's just asking him to do what every superstar does. Go grow your game Asik. You can be a top 10 center.

Why are you assuming he is not doing that? He could be working his *** off every summer but sometimes practice can only take you so far without athleticism. Big men especially.

[UNO Gracias]

Why do I assume he isn't doing that? Because it is always mentioned if a guy was working with somebody during the offseason. By now Joel, Wesley, Deshazier, etc. would have made a comment about the work he did during the offseason to grow his game. That's why I don't think he has done it yet. Maybe one of the BSS guys can ask the players what there offseason plans are.

[Noggy]

First, the numbers here are a little exaggerated. Just because you feel like you saw X doesn't mean X happened. Our memories are a strange thing.

Can we win a title with him? Sure, if he is getting the 6th or 7th most mins on a team (which he was when we were healthy). Is there any realistic get this offseason who can be better? Monroe, I guess, but if the goal is to win a title, you gotta be a top 10 defensive team. Don't know if AD/Monroe can ever accomplish that.

Most likely path would be to keep Asik and get an actual night in, night out dominant perimeter player to pair with AD. Not 3 average to slightly above average ones, but one dominant one.

Aye, people can say what they want but he is averaging only 1.3 TOs per game.

[Tru3th]

All things being said, I don't think the Asik move is a bust, I have liked it, and want it to continue. I would also like to see him get back into a gym with a trainer, or go hang out with Hakeem or Ewing. Go work with an old superstar and develop his game more. It's not asking a whole lot, it's just asking him to do what every superstar does. Go grow your game Asik. You can be a top 10 center.

He does not need to be a top 10 center or develop a post game like these guys. The guy needs to work on his coordination which is definitely a much slower process than one off season. He has been doing this his whole life and he is not very good. It is hard to see him getting any better in terms of his game, but I do see him continuing the play he has the past few games as a very good possibility. He just needs to do what he does well more often like passing, catching, dunking, making layups and setting hard screens

[UNO Gracias]

He does not need to be a top 10 center or develop a post game like these guys. The guy needs to work on his coordination which is definitely a much slower process than one off season. He has been doing this his whole life and he is not very good. It is hard to see him getting any better in terms of his game, but I do see him continuing the play he has the past few games as a very good possibility. He just needs to do what he does well more often like passing, catching, dunking, making layups and setting hard screens

If he continues to play the way he has over the last three games (when AD comes back), we would be foolish not to resign him. He is scoring 6 more points, grabbing 1 more reb, and all other numbers are up (across the board),'however he is also taking 2 more shots a game, shooting 2 more ft's, and playing 4.5 more min. I doubt he sustains that when AD gets back, but if he does, he is a top 10 center. 13/11/1/1 that's great considering the things he does that don't show up on the ledger.

[Mythrol]

Why do I assume he isn't doing that? Because it is always mentioned if a guy was working with somebody during the offseason. By now Joel, Wesley, Deshazier, etc. would have made a comment about the work he did during the offseason to grow his game. That's why I don't think he has done it yet. Maybe one of the BSS guys can ask the players what there offseason plans are.

Go listen to Monty last summer. He spoke specifically about how to manage practice for AD AND Asik coming out of FIBA. After Asik played for his home country he came here and started working. This is such an insane point of view to believe because people aren't overly praising Asik's off season work ethic that he must have none. lol.

[UNO Gracias]

Can you point me to when Monty said that (I am looking for it online)? I see he used to work with a coach. Is he still doing that? Maybe with him not having FIba obligations he can do that again?

I am not saying he doesn't have a work ethic (he is in the NBA after all), I just don't know who or what he is doing during the offseason. Like I said, maybe the media or somebody on BSS's can ask him what his offseason plans are, and what he plans on working on.

[BallSoHard]

Why do I assume he isn't doing that? Because it is always mentioned if a guy was working with somebody during the offseason. By now Joel, Wesley, Deshazier, etc. would have made a comment about the work he did during the offseason to grow his game. That's why I don't think he has done it yet. Maybe one of the BSS guys can ask the players what there offseason plans are.

He's only been here 1 year and he came via trade... how would it have been mentioned.

[UNO Gracias]

How does it ever get mentioned? A guy shows a new wrinkle in his game and it is mentioned often. When AD came in stronger it was often mentioned how this offseason he worked out more, and met with people to help him with that. When players do offseason work it doesn't go unnoticed, it is brought up ad nausea by people.

But all of this is neither here nor there with regards to the OP's original post. I say keep Asik, hope that these last three games are his new norm, and pray nobody comes at him with Jermain Jones type money in the offseason.

[Tru3th]

How does it ever get mentioned? A guy shows a new wrinkle in his game and it is mentioned often. When AD came in stronger it was often mentioned how this offseason he worked out more, and met with people to help him with that. When players do offseason work it doesn't go unnoticed, it is brought up ad nausea by people..

What do you realistically think he can add and how? honest question

[UNO Gracias]

What do you realistically think he can add and how? honest question

What on the offensive side can't he add. It's not like I am asking him to become something like Dwight, Shaq, or any recent top 5 big. He has shown he can do things on offense, just not consistently. just improve those small things around the rim. It honestly wouldn't take him a huge leap to get into that top 10-15 range of starting NBA centers. Name off your top 10 centers and tell me what separates Asik from them. There aren't many Dwight Howard's on that list so it's not like he needs to raise the level of his athletic ability. He just needs to improve on small things.

[MichaelMcNamara]

What do you realistically think he can add and how? honest question

I think this is a great question. Some things just won't be improved much, in any player, no matter the amount of work. Do people think DeAndre Jordan just doesn't work on free throws?

As for Asik, I think he can improve on his communication and his anticipation. Right now, he is playing with a bunch of new guys. But year 3 with Jrue or Tyreke, he will anticipate the passes and know their speed, where they are likely to be, etc. That will help. It will appear that his hands for better, but in reality it will be a result of familiarity more than anything

[SaintPelican225]

I think this is a great question. Some things just won't be improved much, in any player, no matter the amount of work. Do people think DeAndre Jordan just doesn't work on free throws?

As for Asik, I think he can improve on his communication and his anticipation. Right now, he is playing with a bunch of new guys. But year 3 with Jrue or Tyreke, he will anticipate the passes and know their speed, where they are likely to be, etc. That will help. It will appear that his hands for better, but in reality it will be a result of familiarity more than anything

I agree. ..I think he's improved from the start of the season, as far catching the ball....I think the next step is, finishing at the rim with confidence. ...

[Mythrol]

I think this is a great question. Some things just won't be improved much, in any player, no matter the amount of work. Do people think DeAndre Jordan just doesn't work on free throws?

As for Asik, I think he can improve on his communication and his anticipation. Right now, he is playing with a bunch of new guys. But year 3 with Jrue or Tyreke, he will anticipate the passes and know their speed, where they are likely to be, etc. That will help. It will appear that his hands for better, but in reality it will be a result of familiarity more than anything

This is exactly my point. For anyone to expect Asik to add large improvements to his game is completely unrealistic no matter how much work he puts into his game. He is not a raw player that made it in the league because of his athleticism.

Anyone trying to draw the correlation of "he does not work with coaches or other players in the offseason because he has not shown improvements" is just crazy.

[UNO Gracias]

Who is saying anything about making large improvements to his game? Nobody is saying he needs to work on his 3pt shot, or work on his dunking from the free throw line (while that would be cool). I don't think I am alone when I see Asik missing shots from 2ft away and thinking ,"Man if he could only make those shots." These aren't things that will turn him into something completely different than he currently is, these are things that he should be able to do. And these attempts don't happen but once or twice a game, so it's not like they extreme makeovers.

Get with that Carroll guy he was working with (while he was in Houston) and figure it out. By working on so little he could become so much more.

[Asteptooslow]

Dude is playing hard and showing really well helping out the guards. I'm happy with his play since the all-star break.