Has the Asik experiment failed?

[Tinman]

I've got a mental block at paying him 8 figures, and I'm bad enough at math that new/old cap comparisons are hard to wrap my head around. I know I shouldn't be so arbitrary with that number, but if I'm spending 10 million, I'd like the guy to have at least 3 fingers and an opposable thumb on each hand. Less than 10 mil, and minus a better option, and I'd stop complaining.
I don't recall Monroe saying anything about not wanting to be a center, but I could well have missed it. As folks have posted above, I'd rather an offensive guy than Asik (since a younger Tyson is not available, a defensive guy who could catch the ball) - and I'd like it even more if Ryno went out for MKG. From what I've read, MKG's constant movement covers up his poor shooting when it comes to spacing. If that is accurate, and with the better passing and shooting from Monroe, that seems like a great line-up to me on both ends. Especially if EG keeps shooting well, or is replaced with an equal or better shooter (with comparable or better defense) this summer/next season.

Then I'd move on to being grumpy about Evans decision making.

Wow, you have a lotta IF'S in there.

[PelicansBay]

He hasn't been a failed experiment. I wouldn't classify his season as a smashing success either.

[PhilJFry]

Davis + Asik = stellar defense in the paint

http://stats.nba.com/league/lineups/...CF=MIN*GE*19.8

[lsutigers33]

The argument about Asik always leaves out the most important things:

What does he cost to retain?
What are our other options?
What is their cost?

People can scream about this or that with regard to letting him go, but who are you confident you can get to replace them and what is their cost?

I think he has helped, but he has to be just as frustrating to the coaching staff as to the fans for the DoH plays.
I would take robin lopez back if it was around 6m and it meant we landed a stud SF or SG like butler green, or wes matthews by using the savings.

[Tinman]

He hasn't been a failed experiment. I wouldn't classify his season as a smashing success either.

And with that, this thread is adjourned !

[heybigmatt]

Wanting a better offensive guy than Asik who is a little worse on defense (but not much) is so great in theory. But again, where is that guy, what does he cost, and how sure are you that we can get him?

This is what Dell has to deal with in the real world, outside of the fantasies of the message board

Greg Monroe
amare stoudamire
tyson chandler
deandre jordan

These guys give us a chance- asik doesn't. What is the point of keeping asik and not progressing? I don't think those three are fantasies.

[heybigmatt]

Asik wont sign a 1 yr deal, nobody will ! Reke still has 2 yrs, so you just cant get rid of him. & believe it or not> I think Gordon may stay for a pay cut. I mean, c'mon>> Hey Omer, we'll sign you for 1 yr. but then your gone. Is that OK w/ you Omer? Omer: SURE, no problem ! NOT A CHANCE

Then he goes somewhere else and gets less money. I think tyreke will be traded- there are other ways to get rid of players. Expand your mind... Id Give Omer a 1 year contract worth 12 million if we can't find anyone. Listen if you think this team is a contender with Omer Asik then fine, I don't. If there is a will there is a way and Dell has done it before.

would a 2 year contract with the second year being a team option make you feel better? There are ways around this...

[heybigmatt]

Greg Monroe
amare stoudamire
tyson chandler
deandre jordan

These guys give us a chance- asik doesn't. What is the point of keeping asik and not progressing? I don't think those three are fantasies.

I also don't think this is a fantasy because a better guy offensively is about 50-75 percent of centers in the league. Its finding someone who is somewhat capable at Defense.

Our defense will improve as our offense improves. With greater offensive balance, we will have less turnovers, and more efficiancy.

Asik Defense = B+
Asik Offense = C- (if that)

Any player in the B range with both offense and defense is an extreme upgrade to Asik. Id be willing to pay close to the max for them.

[N.O.Bronco]

This depends on Monroe. I am too lazy to look up quotes, but how does he feel about defending centers? I know AD hates it. Monroe might too.

I think we need some evidence before we rely on this assumption to judge Monroe.

The guy played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at center his first two years and most of his third year.

He played well in that role too.

you are gonna give up some defensively and a bit of rebounding for the guy but add a lot offensively compared to Asik.

[Tinman]

Then he goes somewhere else and gets less money. I think tyreke will be traded- there are other ways to get rid of players. Expand your mind... Id Give Omer a 1 year contract worth 12 million if we can't find anyone. Listen if you think this team is a contender with Omer Asik then fine, I don't. If there is a will there is a way and Dell has done it before.

would a 2 year contract with the second year being a team option make you feel better? There are ways around this...

And you think Stoudamire 1-2 rental, who is actually a #4, Chandler, who is oft injured & 33yrs old 1-2 yr rental & Greg Monroe, who is a preferred #4 (& not very good defensively) are better than Asik ? You can forgetabout Jordan! Cant Max him & AD

[Hugeaux II]

All the 'ifs' is what makes evaluating Demps so hard. We don't know what the real options are, or what the real options cost. My bottom line is that if I couldn't get Monroe, and Asik will cost 10M or more, then I am going another route. I don't know what that route is, I just know I don't want to pay Asik that much. If that means I'm stuck with Alexi as my starting center to begin the year, oh well, that's where I begin the year. I assume that Demps would have a better option than starting Alexi, but that's another 'if' that I don't have an answer for.

[heybigmatt]

And you think Stoudamire 1-2 rental, who is actually a #4, Chandler, who is oft injured & 33yrs old 1-2 yr rental & Greg Monroe, who is a preferred #4 (& not very good defensively) are better than Asik ? You can forgetabout Jordan! Cant Max him & AD

out of those 4 you just mentioned and asik, if you were building a team, who would you take in order if you were drafting them?

Jordan/monroe then chandler then stoudamire then asik. I think everyone does. I don't really care if monroe/stoudamire prefers to play PF, he will play center and I will pay him to play center??? this isn't a democracy. Yes we can Max Jordan and is AD getting maxed next year- no he gets maxed in 2017 offseason- i don't know what you are talking about with that regard.


Ill take a starting 5 with any of those centers vs Asik any day of the week.

[Tinman]

out of those 4 you just mentioned and asik, if you were building a team, who would you take in order if you were drafting them?

Jordan/monroe then chandler then stoudamire then asik. I think everyone does. I don't really care if monroe/stoudamire prefers to play PF, he will play center and I will pay him to play center??? this isn't a democracy. Yes we can Max Jordan and is AD getting maxed next year- no he gets maxed in 2017 offseason- i don't know what you are talking about with that regard.


Ill take a starting 5 with any of those centers vs Asik any day of the week.

I'm NOT drafting . I'm choosing a free agent. Chandler is old, used damage goods . Not taking a 1 yr rental for 13 million. I love stoudemires game, especially lately (but on the block, not in the middle. He's not a center. I'm not paing him anymore than I would pay Asik. Jordan would be a coup, but that aint happenin. H'es staying in LA. so, if I were drafting a true #5 as of now > Jordan, Asik, Chandler, Monroe, stoudemire. If it was a Draft w/ no baggage included, it would be Chandler, Jordan, Asik, Monroe & stoudemire.. If I wanted a combo 4/5, It would be Monroe, Stoudemire only! But, being we are not in a time warp & I cant have Jordan & I need a TRUE #5, I'll take Asik

[Caffeinedisastr]

Noone mentions Marc Gasol. I realize he's been tied to the Grizz his whole career, but he's not winning a title there.

Would a max contract offer sign & trade for Ryno/Asik do it?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Greg Monroe
amare stoudamire
tyson chandler
deandre jordan

These guys give us a chance- asik doesn't. What is the point of keeping asik and not progressing? I don't think those three are fantasies.

Monroe costs at least 5 mil per year more than Asik, and again, you are gonna force him to defend the big C's in this league. If he is fine with that, then thats one thing. I just don't know if he is. And on top of that, the one thing that is consistent in championship teams is that they are top 10 in defensive efficiency. Could Monroe & AD be that?

Amare and Tyson have nearly 25 yrs experience in the league combined. Our window for a title is 2017-2020 optimistically. Those are the guys you want? And lastly, how are you going to get DeAndre Jordan. Doc has called him an All-Star and compared him to Bill Russell. Why would they let him go? And why would he choose here?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Noone mentions Marc Gasol. I realize he's been tied to the Grizz his whole career, but he's not winning a title there.

Would a max contract offer sign & trade for Ryno/Asik do it?

No

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think we need some evidence before we rely on this assumption to judge Monroe.

The guy played the overwhelming majority of his minutes at center his first two years and most of his third year.

He played well in that role too.

you are gonna give up some defensively and a bit of rebounding for the guy but add a lot offensively compared to Asik.

I agreed. I said I was too lazy to look up quotes. I have done my share of research this year. Surely someone else can handle this one.

[Tomdda]

Wait, Davis is on the shelf again...
Where's all the "Has the Davis Experiment Failed?" threads??/

Fans be like.....

He's not an all-star.... He sucks... He's not doing what I want him to do... He sucks get him out of here....lol

Asik is not an "Experiment" and no he hasn't failed.

+1, no wait, +2!

[lowlife]

Everytime you talk about Pelicans' defense and Omer, i show this stat:
http://stats.nba.com/league/team/#!/...t.%20FGA&dir=1

Basically, Pelicans is the worst team at preventing shots at the rim (FGA). That's bad perimeter defense.

[Caffeinedisastr]

+1, no wait, +2!

WHY ARE YOU STOPPING AT 2?

PLUS INFINITY!!!!!!!!!!
........plus 2

[kdalw1]

Simple question, yes or no and support your answer.

This is like the curious case of Omer Asik. Im not really sure whether there will be anyone we could realistically sign next year in free agency that would be better than him. His rebounding has been excellent, pretty good at altering shots at the rim. If he could only improve at finishing around the rim on offense and play with more confidence.

[heybigmatt]

No

Are you saying we should keep Asik until 2017? If so I'm on board with that. I think we can contend sooner than that, however, and If we want to contend, there is no way Asik can be our starting Center. Plain and simple, it just won't work. We simply can not win a championship playing 4 v 5 on offense. With that said here are our options

figure out a stop gap until year 2017
or
take a risk and over pay.

Whatever you want to do, but I don't think you can say that a team with Omer Asik playing significant minutes will be able to come close to winning an NBA championship. Center is too important spacing wise, and there is just absolutely no reason to guard him.

Like i said, I think if we were all in a school yard and had the current team we have and had to choose between a pool of: Stoudamire, Chandler, Greg Monroe Deandre Jordan and Asik, i have a hard time believing that Asik would not be the last pick. IF that mean we have to pay more, thats fine, I think the extra money is clearly worth it.

Im not going to discuss their personal preferences on where they want to play, I don't really care about that if Im a GM. They play where I tell them to play. Why would they choose New Orleans, I feel that we are going to have to pay MORE money for them a la Tyreke Evans, to get them to come here. OBVIOUSLY if the clippers match our offer Jordan will stay with them, but i think we take a risk, and offer him more than the clippers will want to offer. If that means the max, then that means the max. I don't know all the cap stuff you guys know, all I am saying is that if i were dell demps I would try and get those centers to play for my team over asik. Atleast until you can see a free agent offseason where we can get the exact center we want.

Asik 3 years, team option the 3rd year. 33 million
Stoudamire- 3 years, 3rd year team option for 36 million
Chandler - 3 years, 3rd year team option for 40 million
Jordan - 4 years 60 million
Monroe- 4 years 60 million

Thats what I want in order from least to most. I think we have a much better chance at winning as you go down the list, obviously you take risks with injury to chandler and stoudamire but so be it, if we aren't trying to win until 2017 these contracts still give us the option to make a large move in the 2017-2018 season.

[BRPels]

wondering, can someone tell me where the pelicans need to be in the overall standings to keep their first round pick.

[MichaelMcNamara]

wondering, can someone tell me where the pelicans need to be in the overall standings to keep their first round pick.

Only way they keep it at this point is if they get lucky and get top 3 in the lotto.

Odds of that happening if we finish 14th is 2%. If we finish 13th - 4%

[MichaelMcNamara]

Are you saying we should keep Asik until 2017? If so I'm on board with that. I think we can contend sooner than that, however, and If we want to contend, there is no way Asik can be our starting Center. Plain and simple, it just won't work. We simply can not win a championship playing 4 v 5 on offense. With that said here are our options

figure out a stop gap until year 2017
or
take a risk and over pay.

Whatever you want to do, but I don't think you can say that a team with Omer Asik playing significant minutes will be able to come close to winning an NBA championship. Center is too important spacing wise, and there is just absolutely no reason to guard him.

Like i said, I think if we were all in a school yard and had the current team we have and had to choose between a pool of: Stoudamire, Chandler, Greg Monroe Deandre Jordan and Asik, i have a hard time believing that Asik would not be the last pick. IF that mean we have to pay more, thats fine, I think the extra money is clearly worth it.

Im not going to discuss their personal preferences on where they want to play, I don't really care about that if Im a GM. They play where I tell them to play. Why would they choose New Orleans, I feel that we are going to have to pay MORE money for them a la Tyreke Evans, to get them to come here. OBVIOUSLY if the clippers match our offer Jordan will stay with them, but i think we take a risk, and offer him more than the clippers will want to offer. If that means the max, then that means the max. I don't know all the cap stuff you guys know, all I am saying is that if i were dell demps I would try and get those centers to play for my team over asik. Atleast until you can see a free agent offseason where we can get the exact center we want.

Asik 3 years, team option the 3rd year. 33 million
Stoudamire- 3 years, 3rd year team option for 36 million
Chandler - 3 years, 3rd year team option for 40 million
Jordan - 4 years 60 million
Monroe- 4 years 60 million

Thats what I want in order from least to most. I think we have a much better chance at winning as you go down the list, obviously you take risks with injury to chandler and stoudamire but so be it, if we aren't trying to win until 2017 these contracts still give us the option to make a large move in the 2017-2018 season.

All I was saying with that No is that we have a 0% chance at Gasol this summer.