Austin Rivers hitting his stride

[saintsinNO]

I think this staff has developed more than they have failed to develop, but I am interested to see the two lists others come up with and then I will add/subtract.

Put em out there, both sides.

Not developed during Monty's tenure:

Marcus Thornton
Aminu
Ayon
Henry
QPon
Darius Miller
Austin Rivers
Withey
PJax
Russ
I'd also argue Robin Lopez

All of the young talent we have was developed by other teams. We haven't had any young kid we draft come up and play any significant role well other than AD.

I also realize the natural argument of "well PJax and Russ never went and did anything," but I look at that from the other perspective of Monty being partially at fault for that. Simply put, we do not develop and play young talent.

[UNO Gracias]

I wonder how Monty stacks up in developing players compared to his peers. I look at Jimmy Butler in Chicago and (if you are giving a HC credit), that's all Tom. Jeff Teague in ATL, who gets that credit? Sloan built Millsap. Gortat is Van Gundy? This is a fun game. Who gets to take credit? I know it takes a village to raise a child, but in the case of Lebron and AD, that child was Doogie Howser, and people only needed to give a little prodding here or there.

[BallSoHard]

I'm not sure it's fair to dock Monty for second rounders and guys who weren't in the league.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[UNO Gracias]

I wouldn't knock him for 2nd rounders either (those picks have so little value they are passed around like party favors), but the ability to take one and make a certified gamer carries more weight (with me) than developing an AD.

Also, AFA, Rivers, X, prospects bust all the time. There is nothing a coach can do about that, and great coaches like Pops and Phil werent in a hurry to go out and make moves for Milic, Wagner,Morrison, because they didn't want to waste time on a bad player, so being the coach that is tasked with coaching a guy who is a bust isn't fair.

[Sovereign]

Curious as to what disproves this? Young guys come in and right out. Or stay and do nothing.

Since this is a blatant falsehood, you give me a list of guys he's developed and made into better players, I'll give you a list of ones he hasn't and we can see just how blatant it is.

I only need to give one example because you were so sure we haven't developed any, but I'll give you your list.

Greivis Vasquez
Robin Lopez
Anthony Morrow (revived his career)
Aminu (into one of the best rebounding SFs in the league)
Jason Smith

[pelicanchamp]

Every player on every team feels like the coach is holding them back. They all want more shots, more freedom and less responsibility. I have watched a lot of Pels basketball and I have no idea what you are talking about. You are seeing what you want to see looking the eyes of fan.

Ok. Try this. Watch the PGs for PELS and then watch the other teams guards. Watch how they interact or keep watching for directions from the coach. CP3 didn't second guess himself or seek approval from coaches. He respected coaches but they knew to give him space. Monty doesn't do this. I already know that It's a recognized issue among the players, and more,that Monty is specifically to controlling with Jrue Holiday. Holiday is an elite level pg being micromanaged by the coach. That's what I'm hearing.

[Kibner]

Ok. Try this. Watch the PGs for PELS and then watch the other teams guards. Watch how they interact or keep watching for directions from the coach. CP3 didn't second guess himself or seek approval from coaches. He respected coaches but they knew to give him space. Monty doesn't do this. I already know that It's a recognized issue among the players, and more,that Monty is specifically to controlling with Jrue Holiday. Holiday is an elite level pg being micromanaged by the coach. That's what I'm hearing.

And Jrue is having perhaps his best season.

[HornetGuru]

I think Monty is fine at developing players, actually good at it. He works with players 1 on 1 lot and works hard. I don't think he is a smart coach however. Sure some players didn't develop under him, but some did, he worked hard with players like Batum and AD and countless others.

Regardless this thread is about Rivers, who is playing WORSE with the clippers than he was here lol.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Not developed during Monty's tenure:

Marcus Thornton
Aminu
Ayon
Henry
QPon
Darius Miller
Austin Rivers
Withey
PJax
Russ
I'd also argue Robin Lopez

All of the young talent we have was developed by other teams. We haven't had any young kid we draft come up and play any significant role well other than AD.

I also realize the natural argument of "well PJax and Russ never went and did anything," but I look at that from the other perspective of Monty being partially at fault for that. Simply put, we do not develop and play young talent.

I think I see where we disagree. To me, some guys just aren't or will never be NBA players. Not on the coach if he can't turn chicken (blank) into chicken salad. I look at that list and nobody there besides maybe Q-Pon for one year became a better player after leaving here. And you say Lopez might be a little better, but he went from an unwanted guy around the league to good here, and a little better since then. I think almost every objective person would give NOLA the credit for him turning it around.

Belinelli had a foot out the door. Smith did nothing before here. Roberts was a nobody and got a solid contract after leaving here (and has declined a bit). Ayon's best year was here.

Monty really hasn't been given young talent with upside. He has been given AD and Rivers. He will never get an ounce of credit for AD and Rivers will prove to be a bust no matter where he goes. I remember hearing people talking up Carlisle and saying, "Watch what happens when he gets his hands on Aminu." Uh.... still waiting.

If guys leave here and go on to excel elsewhere, I will say he is doing a poor job at developing. But so far, I count way more guys who were garbage elsewhere who got better here than guys who were bad here and got better elsewhere - and to me that is the test.

[Bongzilla]

Developed:
Grevis Vasquez
Quincy Pondexter
Jason Smith
Anthony Davis
Lance Thomas?
Marco Belinelli?

Failed to Develop:
Austin Rivers
Al-Farouq Aminu
Darius Miller
Xavier Henry?

Tough list to construct. Didn't think Gordon warranted being listed due to his injury history. Ryno and Jrue are somewhat par imo. Brian Roberts is another name that could be considered. Feel free to criticize. But realize that it's difficult to distinguish progression/regression by virtue of the player himself vs. coaching. Plus unexpected contributions may result from increased playing time/opportunities versus player development, i.e. Marco Belinelli.

Your list is odd to me.

Vasquez was not developed here, his numbers look the best simply due to the minutes he got -- he got the minutes because our roster was weak. The ball was in his hands 80% of course his numbers looked ok.

Q-pon - was not developed here, he was quickly shipped out. Odd to put him on this list. Did you mean the list of players who had greater success AWAY from Monty? Then this would make sense.

Jason Smith - Developed in to what? from a very bad basketball player to a bad one?

AD - This will go down as Monty's claim to fame, personally, I think AD would have been this good no matter what. Is anyone asking which coach is responsible for developing LeBron? When you are better than everyone else, that is not coaching, that is talent and desire. When you IMPROVE - that is coaching. Yes AD is improving, but he is going from a child to a man, I think he would be this good no matter where he was playing. Honestly, playing for Coach K and with all the other Olympians is probably more impactful IMO.

Lance Thomas -- wut? Was never developed, is he still in the league? Wasn't he on a 10 day contract?

Marco - Again,,, see q-pon. Belinelli EXCELLED AFTER HE LEFT MONTY'S DARK CLOUD.

So to recap.... your list of players that Monty "Developed"....... well Ill just politely say I couldn't disagree more.

[HornetGuru]

I think I see where we disagree. To me, some guys just aren't or will never be NBA players. Not on the coach if he can't turn chicken (blank) into chicken salad. I look at that list and nobody there besides maybe Q-Pon for one year became a better player after leaving here. And you say Lopez might be a little better, but he went from an unwanted guy around the league to good here, and a little better since then. I think almost every objective person would give NOLA the credit for him turning it around.

Belinelli had a foot out the door. Smith did nothing before here. Roberts was a nobody and got a solid contract after leaving here (and has declined a bit). Ayon's best year was here.

Monty really hasn't been given young talent with upside. He has been given AD and Rivers. He will never get an ounce of credit for AD and Rivers will prove to be a bust no matter where he goes. I remember hearing people talking up Carlisle and saying, "Watch what happens when he gets his hands on Aminu." Uh.... still waiting.

If guys leave here and go on to excel elsewhere, I will say he is doing a poor job at developing. But so far, I count way more guys who were garbage elsewhere who got better here than guys who were bad here and got better elsewhere - and to me that is the test.

agreed, he won't get credit for AD but he should. He always says how much Monty works with him.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Your list is odd to me.

Vasquez was not developed here, his numbers look the best simply due to the minutes he got -- he got the minutes because our roster was weak. The ball was in his hands 80% of course his numbers looked ok.

Q-pon - was not developed here, he was quickly shipped out. Odd to put him on this list. Did you mean the list of players who had greater success AWAY from Monty? Then this would make sense.

Jason Smith - Developed in to what? from a very bad basketball player to a bad one?

AD - This will go down as Monty's claim to fame, personally, I think AD would have been this good no matter what. Is anyone asking which coach is responsible for developing LeBron? When you are better than everyone else, that is not coaching, that is talent and desire. When you IMPROVE - that is coaching. Yes AD is improving, but he is going from a child to a man, I think he would be this good no matter where he was playing. Honestly, playing for Coach K and with all the other Olympians is probably more impactful IMO.

Lance Thomas -- wut? Was never developed, is he still in the league? Wasn't he on a 10 day contract?

Marco - Again,,, see q-pon. Belinelli EXCELLED AFTER HE LEFT MONTY'S DARK CLOUD.

So to recap.... your list of players that Monty "Developed"....... well Ill just politely say I couldn't disagree more.

1. Actually, Vasquez's best rates across the board were here. And that has nothing to do with minutes.
2. Smith went from nothing to a real rotation player. That is an improvement. Has anybody on the not developed list done that since they left here?
3. Marco went from a '10' in place A (GS/Tor) to a '40' in place B (Nola), and is now a '50' in place C (Chic/SA). Who should get the credit for that, objectively? I would say that most would credit place B, no?

[Bongzilla]

1. Actually, Vasquez's best rates across the board were here. And that has nothing to do with minutes.
2. Smith went from nothing to a real rotation player. That is an improvement. Has anybody on the not developed list done that since they left here?
3. Marco went from a '10' in place A (GS/Tor) to a '40' in place B (Nola), and is now a '50' in place C (Chic/SA). Who should get the credit for that, objectively? I would say that most would credit place B, no?

Well, we are playing what boils down to guessing games (as there is obviously no scientific way to prove who is responsible for improving what) - so let us continue.

Example - Player spends 100 hours shooting free throws after practice, and improves percentage. The coaches did not change his shooting mechanics. Do they still get the credit for improvement?

First of all, all NBA players SHOULD IMPROVE over time. Period. Once you make it to pro sports, you have NO OTHER RESPONSIBILITIES. No job to go to, no school or tests to study for. Nothing. Nothing but basketball. Being taught by the best coaches in the world, at the best facilities, with nutritionists, medical staffs, strength coaches..... ----the whole nine yards.

The entire system is set up for players to IMPROVE.

So, back to the point, I am not particularly impressed with players improving by what most would consider natural progression. For a player to improve their numbers year over year is EXPECTED imo --- until everyone reaches their own personal limit.

Now, take a Jimmy Butler or I would say many players who are up for "most improved award." These are the players who seem to make a quantum leap of progression, more so than you would expect from practice and experience. In these situations I would say the coaching staff absolutely deserves a lot of "development" credit.

To the list - I may have been hard on Smith. I actually never minded Smith and he was solid for us. Is that due to Monty Williams? the assistant coaches? Irrelevant. Smith did slightly improve here and so Mr. Jason Smith please except my apology for calling you a bad player. You are in fact, an average player! <-- and I actually don't mean this as a backhanded compliment.

Marco -- hmm keeping with your response I would say - '10' place A '20' Place B -here '50' Places C and D. He showed IMPROVEMENT on the Spurs. I think if anything that is a strike against Monty. The way that Marco improved was due to the coaching he received from Pop, the spurs system, and most importantly being used properly and put in a position to succeed --- The very fabric of successful management (coaching)

Lastly, while Monty does work with the players, I think it is the assistant coaches who do most of 1v1 training.

Double lastly, Monty is said to be a defensive guru as well as great at player development. We already know AT LEAST ONE OF THESE IS UNTRUE.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I tend to agree - we will never know the alternate universe. We can't know how X player would have fared elsewhere. I think, like in most things, we tend to give credit or not to fit our agendas. Because you are right, we can't know.

The other thing we do as fans is point to guys like Jimmy Butler - the aberrations - and pine for that kind of outcome. Then, when our coach doesn't deliver, we use it against him. But those are extremely rare and for every Butler, there are 8 guys taken in the 20's that became nothing.

I guess I don't see the young talent that this staff was given that they failed to mold. Rivers was the only other high pick, and most people hated him as a prospect at the time. Now, it is Monty's fault for him not developing? As I said with Aminu, the great Rick Carlisle can't seem to get anything out of him either.

I can't evaluate Monty one way or the other really, because I don't think he has been given enough chances, especially if we essentially eliminate AD from the convo. And its funny that people bring up Thibs, because Bulls fans hate what he is doing with Mirotic and Doug M. right now. I would say that is the common thread with most fan bases - 90% of them think their coach is poor at X and pine for another and yet that fan base is pining too

[al m337]

Ryno for best actor on the team. That was gold .

[Abitabove]

AR was great for us off the bench tonight

[Heavy]

AR was great for us off the bench tonight

[DRDJ1]

Being at the game at the SKD tonight it was SUCH a relief to see Austin coming off the Clippers and not Pelicans bench that I had an extra beer.

[WhoDatPelican]

Being at the game at the SKD tonight it was SUCH a relief to see Austin coming off the Clippers and not Pelicans bench that I had an extra beer.

[LouisianaPride]

@latbbolch · 19m 19 minutes ago
Austin Rivers: "We gave them that win. That’s our win. We were supposed to take that from them."


Stay classy Austin

[SaintPelican225]

@latbbolch · 19m 19 minutes ago
Austin Rivers: "We gave them that win. That’s our win. We were supposed to take that from them."


Stay classy Austin

This dude needs to get over himself...lol

[bojangles837]

Damn am I the only person that agrees with Mac. I think Monty has been more than adequate at developing players. Gravy. J smith. Lopez. B rob. Belinelli. Lance Thomas. Ad. Morrow. All those guys are better because of Monty to me. Guys like d miller. Xavier. Ayon. Are d league talents. Rivers is just rivers

[LouisianaPride]

This dude needs to get over himself...lol

He'll be ok, he's got daddy lol

[joetzeng]

Prison rules, I got Jimmer. NBA rules, possibly AR.

MM, going into the draft how much of a can't miss was AD? Sure people say "this guy is a can't miss player" all the time, but in AD's case people were comparing him to Lebron in terms of ability to come in an turn a franchise around. You had people like Larry Brown saying he (AD) was going to net a team 50 wins his first year (which he didn't actually do, but the sentiment was he was a big time game changer). The kid coming in was very similar to Lebron in that he dominated against his competition, and had many amazing pieces that were better than well established NBA vets. They are going to be great no matter what.

It would be fair to say you should give Monty as much credit in AD's development as Paul Silas and Mike Brown got in Lebron's development.

I read a lot of quotes and scouting reports on AD before he came into the league, and I'm pretty sure scouts were calling him a 'can't miss' player because of his defense, if you're honest to yourself I think you would remember that AD's offensive game was a question mark in college. Does Monty and the coaching staff not get any credit for his offensive development? Our coaches were credited for Tyreke improved jumper, do we not credit them for AD's shot as well? I see your point but I'm not sure how you can definitively say that AD would have had the same success wherever he was drafted.

[joetzeng]

Not developed during Monty's tenure:

Marcus Thornton
Aminu
Ayon
Henry
QPon
Darius Miller
Austin Rivers
Withey
PJax
Russ
I'd also argue Robin Lopez

All of the young talent we have was developed by other teams. We haven't had any young kid we draft come up and play any significant role well other than AD.

I also realize the natural argument of "well PJax and Russ never went and did anything," but I look at that from the other perspective of Monty being partially at fault for that. Simply put, we do not develop and play young talent.

How is Monty being partially at fault for Smith and Jackson? Guys fell into 2nd rounds for a reason. All the players that you bought up, Ayon had his best year with us. Henry, Miller, Rivers hadn't done anything after they left, Thornton's been sitting on the bench for a .300 team. Maybe they're just not that good? I'd like to know if you blame the GM more for drafting busts in the 2nd rounds or the coach for failing to develop them.