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True. But this is specific lineup data. Replacing Jrue with Tyreke in the current starting lineup has increased our NetRtg by 14.Originally Posted by speedyG
The Jrue/Tyreke/Babbit/Davis/Asik lineup is our most used lineup this year and it posted a NetRtg of -0.1. That will effect Tyreke as much as it did Jrue.
Again, strength of schedule / sample size and it'll be more interesting to look at in 5 or 6 games but 14 is a significant enough jump to at least look at right now.
The difference is:
Tony Parker starts
Chris Paul starts
Damien Lillard starts
Steph Curry starts
Mike Conley starts
I want my best perimeter defender matched up against these guys in the playoffs (not off the bench), before they can go off for 20 pts in the 1st quarter.
If they bring those guys off the bench, I'll bring Jrue off the bench.
This
fortunately over this 4 game win streak we haven't faced a scoring PG... not sayin we'll lose tomorrow but I think you'll see Jrue's value when Ty Lawson is carving up our starting guards trying to defend him
Remember everyone, we tried the experiment of putting the ball in Evans hand and having everyone playing off him to start the season and it crashed and burned.
Now Evans has been playing smarter basketball consistently but there have honestly only been a handful of games all season where I can sit there and point to Evans being a very good distributor. And what I mean by that is spreading the ball around, finding the hot hands, facilitating at a high level, and taking mostly smart shots.
Jrue has been streaky but he does those things on a relatively consistent basis at an above average level.
Let's see Evans come out the other side of this stretch the same way he left last nights game and then the discussion can go back to whether evans role needs to shift once again.
Simple. Just play him at the SG position. He can still guard the best perimeter player and Tyreke has the ball in his hands on offense. Jrue spot up 3 is good. Actually, they already did this quite often where they would split PG duties between them.
Like people said, we need jrue vs people like irving, lawson, rose, wall, etc.
Also jrue would have been able to slow down monte ellis big time.
I agree with this. I don't think we need another PG, we need another SG and a PF that is all paint when AD is playing C. Similar to patrick young!
in reality, ever since we beat Memphis, we should have won every game up to this point. That was a real easy stretch we didn't take advantage of.
If we can go 5-3 in the next 8 with TE running the point, I don't think we should have him come back off the bench.
Yea, I like this idea. Has Gordon ever come off the bench? Maybe he's the guard that should be running the second unit, because as good as he's playing, I think Jrue/Reke backcourt is just too good. And of course they have the option to run with Jrue/Gordon/Reke later in games.
He didn't in either of the last two times we played against them.
I understand the point of the OP but you start Jrue Holiday for the defense and the efficiency he brings, they get enough time with all three guards on the court, and at that point and time, Reke is the ball handler.
Also think of Reke being able to go against the backup pgs and 2nd string defenses first #1s i like his chances with shooters around him, he can come in and be an instant offense.
The Only way to get ahead is to get started.....What you waiting for!
i made this point a couple weeks back, and got extremely flamed. There seems to be diminishing returns when both are on the floor, even if the ppts per game starting 5 is higher when they are both on, i guarantee that the pts per game of the second unit is far higher when one of them is on the floor with the second unit. Thus the higher pts per game in the first unit is exceeded by the second unit. they need to be staggered accordingly so that we never have a PG in other than Jrue or Tyreke.
I love how we just assume we have to be dictated to by the opponent at all times!
What sort of defensive nightmare is it for Parker, Paul, Lillard, Curry and Conley to have to match up with Tyreke @ 6'6" 220 playing the way he's been playing?! If those guys are in foul trouble, they're not going to be in the game to do too much damage on the offensive end.
Jrue would still see plenty of minutes guarding those guys, especially in the 4th quarter, especially since I wouldn't be giving any of our current backup PGs any minutes once Jrue comes back.
A Jrue/Reke backcourt sounds good... but in reality it has been a disappointment. Both guys become hesitant and don't play their best bball when they're back there together for long stretches.
Couldn't the same thing be said about Jrue? Plenty of minutes, instant offense, lockdown defense, beasting against 2nd string... just not in the starting lineup.
I want to force Tyreke to be the distributor he's been by playing him with more talent on the court. I don't want to put Tyreke back in the 2nd unit where he tends to turn into bad hero ball Tyreke because he believes he's the best option when he's out there with the 2nd unit. Jrue, IMO, would excel getting the 2nd unit going, and then when Tyreke comes back in the game, you move Jrue off the ball on offense and put him on the other teams best player on defense.
In essence, when Jrue comes back he's taking minutes away from Gordon and Wolters, allowing us to preserve both Jrue and Gordon.
If we are desperate for a backup PG, why are you going to force Jrue into the starting line up and have him play out of position?? Just let him be your backup PG!
We COULD get into a gunfight with any of these teams, and history says we will lose.
But we won't beat any of them in the playoffs unless we can get some stops IMO.
I'm not saying erase Jrue from this team... all of our guards get 30+ minutes. I'm not sure how staggering it with Jrue coming off the bench and ending games causes us to be horrible on defense. There are no stats that back this up!
My point was pretty much that if they have their quick (All star quality) guards out there
I DO NOT want Tyreke trying to guard them. However, let him abuse their backup guards where he won't have to be as quick or good defensively.
And if we are just trying to outscore them, that will wear us down quickly in a playoff grind.
Jrue is our best perimeter defender and like the saying goes,
Defense wins championships.
Evans needs to show that he can be a high level facilitator and distributor for a large enough sample size before even entertaining having the entire first unit offense run through him and taking the statistical consensus best PG out of that lineup.
You are advocating this based on a ridiculously small sample size of games. The best coming against the worst team in the league down their best point guard. If he can replicate this type of performance and continue to improve his decision making against this upcoming stretch of teams then perhaps a discussion about renewing evans into the starting lineup and having him be the primary ball handler again should be entertained.
but this argument that off the bench evans can't be a distributor seems a bit silly. A lineup of Evans, Gordon, Cunningham, davis and Asik has Evans and two offensive weapons. Evans off the bench with Ryno, Ajinca, Q-Pon and say Jimmer, actually has more outlet shooters including a better dump off center around the rim that Evans likes to go to when attacking.
I know this will fly like a lead balloon but.....
Trade Jrue -- Yes I agree he is our 2nd best player, and yes I agree that Reke will have trouble guarding the lightning fast PGs...... But I also believe those are the ONLY 2 cons.
First off, and why is no one talking about this.... but is Jrue injury prone? Another stress fracture? isn't that odd?
Seconldy, we will have quite a large sample size, and if Reke keeps leading the team like he has been, and we keep on this winning streak.... Again - we will have a pretty good amount of games to determine if this is a fluke, a streak, or perhaps, our roster just works better this way.
Lastly, Jrue is our 2nd best player, and he is a former All star ---- he should have some trade value. Trade Jrue for a HIGH QUALITY backup PG and a HIGH QUALITY backup SG. After that...... someone please tell me what is wrong with our roster? I am pleased with the SF position additions, and we have enough bigs.
Am I crazy? and a simply yes or no won't do, care to explain if you disagree?
PG - Reke, J. Jack level player
SG - Gordon, (J. Lamb, J. Meeks, Morrow types)
SF - Cunningham and Qpon
PF - AD and Anderson
C - Asik and Ajinca
Is this not a solid 10 deep?
Another factor to consider is that while Reke will certainly have trouble staying in front of Lawson.......
Lawson is going to have to guard him on the other end as well, and there is just no way he is strong enough to stop the bull rush.
I don't want to trade Jrue, I just want to make sure we're getting he most out of him.
Whether he starts or not isn't as important as keeping him healthy and him finishing games for us. When/if Jrue comes back we'll certainly have a large enough sample size of Tyreke against good competition to determine whether Tyreke or Jrue should be our starting PG.
Having two very good PGs, with one coming off the bench, is a good problem for Pels to have.
What does J Jack bring to the table that Jimmer couldn't? (Not a Jimmerite; honest question.)
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