Jrue Holiday: Backup PG

[NMThreeMVP]

When Jrue was an All Star, he was the lead guard surrounded by scrubs in Philadelphia.

When Tyreke is at his best, he is the lead guard surrounded by capable players that he feels confident kicking the ball to and not forcing up bad shots.

Ever since we've put our trio of guards together, we've been trying to figure out which guy should come off the bench -Tyreke or Gordon -and maybe the answer is Jrue.

Why would any coach take Tyreke off the ball with the way he's playing? Imagine the team we rolled out against the Mavs with a former All Star PG coming off the bench.

And you could still finish games with Tyreke, Gordon, and Jrue, or with Qpon and whichever of the 3 is playing best.

Off the bench, Jrue would be a beast kicking to Ryno and QPon and harassing some team's back up PG. He could also be the aggressive Jrue that we all know and love on the offensive end.

I'll let stats guys tell me what our defensive rating has been without Jrue, compared to with him, but from watching how the team plays, I see no reason why Jrue couldn't come off the bench and finish games and still bring his defensive intensity.

[speedyG]

I'm interested to see how Reke does over the tough stretch coming up. If he keeps this up against the top teams then maybe time to rethink things

[Big-EZ]

We'll see during the next four games what we are really made of.

[HornetGuru]

I had the same idea, but i still think jrue gets the starting nod simply because of his defense

[NMThreeMVP]

Strange as it sounds, contrary to the opinion McNamara has been pushing, this team doesn't need another PG. Where are they going to get minutes on the ball?!

This team needs a SG. An Anthony Morrow type to play with QPon, and Jrue or Tyreke at the point in the 2nd unit.

[504ByrdGang]

[Sleeper]

Lol that is awesome

[DroopyDawg]

LOL! Really? Jrue is still our 2nd best player. Tyreke is perfect for the 6th man, and Jrue can play off the ball with Reke running the point.

[NMThreeMVP]

LOL! Really? Jrue is still our 2nd best player. Tyreke is perfect for the 6th man, and Jrue can play off the ball with Reke running the point.

If you're going to mov Jrue off the ball with Tyreke running point, and you need a backup PG, why not just move Jrue to the bench?

Jrue's defense is consistently good, but has he really been our 2nd best player this season? Tyreke, with his improved shot, has been great on the ball. I don't mess with that. And I don't think Jrue has been as good playing off the ball as we like to imagine.

I'm not saying give him only the Wolters minutes, but he'd be exactly what the 2nd unit needs and could also finish games.

[Eman5805]

The first time someone suggested this it was a joke. Why does this seem serious?

[luckyman]

Couldn't hear or see the game tonight but Tyreke's stat line these last 2 games are what good Tyreke does. He should be a norm 8 - 12+ assist guy like I been saying.

With that said let's start him at point even when Jrue gets back...let's get crazy!!!!111

[N.O.Bronco]

Strange as it sounds, contrary to the opinion McNamara has been pushing, this team doesn't need another PG. Where are they going to get minutes on the ball?!

This team needs a SG. An Anthony Morrow type to play with QPon, and Jrue or Tyreke at the point in the 2nd unit.

I think this makes a lot of sense and I continue to wonder what the logic is behind Wolters.

If this stretch has shown anything it is that all three of our guards can play the role of primary distributor and do it well.

I seem to be int he minority but nothing Wolters has shown me justifies his playing time. I would rather see Q-Pon and Jimmer split time with Evans, Gordon and Jrue and play off ball primarily. With Jimmer getting a little burn at point.

[SaintPelican225]

Strange as it sounds, contrary to the opinion McNamara has been pushing, this team doesn't need another PG. Where are they going to get minutes on the ball?!

This team needs a SG. An Anthony Morrow type to play with QPon, and Jrue or Tyreke at the point in the 2nd unit.

Reke would catch hell chasing smaller quicker PG around picks...He's a SG with PG skills which makes him a nightmare to guard for other SG

[DefensiveMind]

Jimmer has a case of the Jimmers out there. He wants to play, then he needs to shoot. It's not going to happen overnight and he's gonna have to earn his opportunity over time. Nate isn't setting the world on fire, but he's auditioning and it's not really costing us anything to give him an extended look, which says more about Jimmer than it does about Nate, honestly.

As far the OP goes, no. A healthy Jrue gives you better Defense. We can't consistently ask Gordon to cover the 7-9 PGs in the West that are basically allstars. Gordon's playing making is a welcome sight and Reke has been legit as a lead guard, but I hope the biggest takeaway for all them and Monty is that this three guard rotation can work.

[N.O.Bronco]

I also just want to say that I just got back from the game and while Davis is Davis, Evans and Gordon are really impressing me recently. Gordon is just a smart player offensively and hustler on defense, no way around it. And when Evans plays like he did tonight he truly puts himself in that echelon people have been hoping he would reach since his rookie year. People around here think I knock the guy and I do, and I would argue he deserves it most of the time, but nights like this and a few others this season and you see where his ceiling is and it frustrates you because you want him to get there but worry if he ever will.

On the Davis front I would like to say this to attest to his growing leadership.

Davis had just missed his first three shots and I think it was right around the 15 point mark. When Davis got the ball on the block and got his first score.

Evans was at the top of the arc and Evans looked a little aloof about where to go with the ball, passes it to Gordon who gives it back cause he had nothing and you could hear Davis yelling give me the ball!!! Give me the ball!!! Eventually Evans turned his head and dropped it down and Davis proceeded to just destroy Noelle and drive past him and score. Then they are running down the court and Davis starts jawing at Evans briefly to the tune of something like "when I'm yelling for the ball give me the ball, I had him, I was open to the hoop. Almost intimidating Evans. Evans seemingly acknowledges he ****ed up. They get the rebound, Davis is yelling out offensive assignments and Evans eventually drives and draws a foul.


Davis is then the first person to congratulate him for getting to the line. Next possession. Sixers hit it and then immediately Evans looks to and recognizes to go to Davis on the block without even yelling anything, Davis gets the pass and Davis scores. Then the next possession is the beautiful Alley oop from Evans to AD.

I would of never noticed it by watching it on TV but sitting 4 rows back and hearing the communication you can see how Davis's communication with Evans set off that series of events. Or at least put into Tyreke's head "don't you forget about me just because I missesd a few early ones."

[billfromfinance]

I also just want to say that I just got back from the game and while Davis is Davis, Evans and Gordon are really impressing me recently. Gordon is just a smart player offensively and hustler on defense, no way around it. And when Evans plays like he did tonight he truly puts himself in that echelon people have been hoping he would reach since his rookie year. People around here think I knock the guy and I do, and I would argue he deserves it most of the time, but nights like this and a few others this season and you see where his ceiling is and it frustrates you because you want him to get there but worry if he ever will.

On the Davis front I would like to say this to attest to his growing leadership.

Davis had just missed his first three shots and I think it was right around the 15 point mark. When Davis got the ball on the block and got his first score.

Evans was at the top of the arc and Evans looked a little aloof about where to go with the ball, passes it to Gordon who gives it back cause he had nothing and you could hear Davis yelling give me the ball!!! Give me the ball!!! Eventually Evans turned his head and dropped it down and Davis proceeded to just destroy Noelle and drive past him and score. Then they are running down the court and Davis starts jawing at Evans briefly to the tune of something like "when I'm yelling for the ball give me the ball, I had him, I was open to the hoop. Almost intimidating Evans. Evans seemingly acknowledges he ****ed up. They get the rebound, Davis is yelling out offensive assignments and Evans eventually drives and draws a foul.


Davis is then the first person to congratulate him for getting to the line. Next possession. Sixers hit it and then immediately Evans looks to and recognizes to go to Davis on the block without even yelling anything, Davis gets the pass and Davis scores. Then the next possession is the beautiful Alley oop from Evans to AD.

I would of never noticed it by watching it on TV but sitting 4 rows back and hearing the communication you can see how Davis's communication with Evans set off that series of events. Or at least put into Tyreke's head "don't you forget about me just because I missesd a few early ones."

Awesome. Thanks for sharing man, things like this are always great to hear, and definitely make me wish I could attend games.

[HornetGuru]

Reke would catch hell chasing smaller quicker PG around picks...He's a SG with PG skills which makes him a nightmare to guard for other SG

agree with this.

[Pantazis76]

I think the problem has always been tyreke and Jrue playing together, they just don't suit eachother, both drive to the basket guards, thats why i think having eric on this team along with either tyreke or jrue is better rather than having all 3, if i was a GM i would be trading tyreke and keeping jrue, along with resigining gordon for 7 mil.
Trust me fellas, tyreke + gordon > Jrue + Tyreke + Gordon or Jrue + Gordon > Tyreke + Jrue

[Pelicans78]

I would go with Jrue as the starter and Tyreke as the backup PG/SG. Gordon is playing well too so leave him at the SG spot with Cunningham and Pondexter at SF. Asik/Ajinca at center and Davis/Anderson at PF. That's our set rotation. Now its time to stop coasting and get that playoff spot.

[RaisingTheBar]

I'm just going with NO.

[PhilJFry]

When Jrue was an All Star, he was the lead guard surrounded by scrubs in Philadelphia.

When Tyreke is at his best, he is the lead guard surrounded by capable players that he feels confident kicking the ball to and not forcing up bad shots.

Ever since we've put our trio of guards together, we've been trying to figure out which guy should come off the bench -Tyreke or Gordon -and maybe the answer is Jrue.

Why would any coach take Tyreke off the ball with the way he's playing? Imagine the team we rolled out against the Mavs with a former All Star PG coming off the bench.

And you could still finish games with Tyreke, Gordon, and Jrue, or with Qpon and whichever of the 3 is playing best.

Off the bench, Jrue would be a beast kicking to Ryno and QPon and harassing some team's back up PG. He could also be the aggressive Jrue that we all know and love on the offensive end.

I'll let stats guys tell me what our defensive rating has been without Jrue, compared to with him, but from watching how the team plays, I see no reason why Jrue couldn't come off the bench and finish games and still bring his defensive intensity.

No one ever really did a stats breakdown so here we go:

Jrue's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Interestingly enough our DRtg is worse with Jrue on the court as opposed to off. Our ORtg is way better though so he's still a pretty huge positive there.

Tyreke's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Wow, nearly identical as far as ORtg, DRtg goes.

Pels Lineup Data: http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612...sort=MIN&dir=1
Jrue/Gordon/Evans/Davis/Asik: ORtg 110.5 DRtg 97.8 Net 12.7
Evans/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 115.1 DRtg 96.7 Net 18.4
Jrue/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 118.2 DRtg 113.7 Net 4.4

So right now it looks like you might have a point, but as a few other people have said, strength of schedule probably plays in here. We should come back after LAC, OKC x2, ATL, CHI and see how these numbers look.

[Caffeinedisastr]

We're good for the time being trying to outscore teams,
but playoff basketball is a different animal.

JRUE.

[NMThreeMVP]

No one ever really did a stats breakdown so here we go:

Jrue's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Interestingly enough our DRtg is worse with Jrue on the court as opposed to off. Our ORtg is way better though so he's still a pretty huge positive there.

Tyreke's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Wow, nearly identical as far as ORtg, DRtg goes.

Pels Lineup Data: http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612...sort=MIN&dir=1
Jrue/Gordon/Evans/Davis/Asik: ORtg 110.5 DRtg 97.8 Net 12.7
Evans/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 115.1 DRtg 96.7 Net 18.4
Jrue/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 118.2 DRtg 113.7 Net 4.4

So right now it looks like you might have a point, but as a few other people have said, strength of schedule probably plays in here. We should come back after LAC, OKC x2, ATL, CHI and see how these numbers look.

It's certainly true that schedule plays a big part of this. And clearly we're not getting Jrue back in the next few days, so we'll get a chance to see how this plays out over time against better competition.

I just think it's funny that the eye test sort of falls in line with the stats, and yet most people completely dismiss it as some wild and crazyass idea. Clearly if we go on a losing streak and Tyreke turns into Bad Tyreke on offense and defense, then it's easy to put Jrue back into the starting lineup, but if this continues and we're in contention, Jrue should come off the bench. It might even be helpful to scale back his minutes a little, considering the recurring nature of his injury, just to make sure he stays available down the stretch and hopefully into the playoffs.

[NMThreeMVP]

We're good for the time being trying to outscore teams,
but playoff basketball is a different animal.

JRUE.

If Jrue is getting 30mpg coming off the bench, what difference does it make? JRUE can be a difference maker on the defensive end, starter or no starter. And just like when Tyreke comes off the bench and finishes games, JRUE would be able to do the same.

[speedyG]

No one ever really did a stats breakdown so here we go:

Jrue's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Interestingly enough our DRtg is worse with Jrue on the court as opposed to off. Our ORtg is way better though so he's still a pretty huge positive there.

Tyreke's on off: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1/on-off/2015/
Wow, nearly identical as far as ORtg, DRtg goes.

Pels Lineup Data: http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612...sort=MIN&dir=1
Jrue/Gordon/Evans/Davis/Asik: ORtg 110.5 DRtg 97.8 Net 12.7
Evans/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 115.1 DRtg 96.7 Net 18.4
Jrue/Gordon/Dante/Davis/Asik: ORtg 118.2 DRtg 113.7 Net 4.4

So right now it looks like you might have a point, but as a few other people have said, strength of schedule probably plays in here. We should come back after LAC, OKC x2, ATL, CHI and see how these numbers look.

When Jrue was healthy though we played alot of games with Babbit at SF, instead of Cunningham & QPon. I wouldn't look into it too much