dang i have him very high, he is best off ball, is a great rebounder, defender and 3pt shooter and only takes smart shots.Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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dang i have him very high, he is best off ball, is a great rebounder, defender and 3pt shooter and only takes smart shots.
Hmm I'm not gonna pretend that I probably wouldn't have Barnes closer to 20 then 1 on my list. Though I'd have to sit down and write that out. But the guy, like Klay - albeit a at a slower rate - is seemingly showing some interesting potential. Nearly 50% from the field, 42% from three has a higher catch and shoot percentage then Klay(or did lol) for most of the season. Has turned into a good rebounder and has learned not to be an offensive stopper.
He's the sort of player I can just see people saying in two years, huh, yeah, the signs were there that he was poised to breakout but I just doubted them.
However in terms of fit with monty at the helm you'd probably be right. He would go back to not touching the ball for 5, 10 possessions at a time and probably forced into a number of possessions when the opposing defenses team has been set, putting him right back to where he was last year struggling in ISO sets and making plays against set defenses in a poorly optimized offensive system.
EDIT: Barnes is at 45% on catch and shoot 3 pointers, 8th in the league of guys that take 2 or more a game and have played at least 20 games. TIED with Klay on overall catch and shoot percentage at 43.8%. Pretty impressive IMO even though we all know Klay takes more shots and tougher ones. For comparison sake, under the same parameters, Gordon is our best catch and shoot player at 42% overall and 42% from three where he is ranked 24th in the league. Ryno is ranked 79th at 36% catch and shoot 3P%.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 01-24-2015 at 11:50 AM.
No matter who is coaching Klay Thompson, he's better than Ryan Anderson. Some of y'all need to relax and learn to say it's ok to be wrong instead of throwing out reasons for why you weren't wrong. This should also be an example for why some of y'all need to chill on using stats to determine if a player is good or bad. The stats won't tell you everything and they don't provide context. I love stats, I'm a big sabermetrics guy in baseball, but basketball is such a fluid sport that looking at stats to determine a player's worth should only be half of the picture. Again, Klay is and was a better player than Ryan Anderson regardless of who's coaching who.
As far as the look back on the trade, it should have been obvious to everyone that the smart thing to do was to trade Eric Gordon for any player who got off the books faster, much less holding out for both Klay and Barnes. Eric Gordon for Biedrins + Filler would have been a great deal for us. We'd be clear of Eric Gordon now and according to HoopsHype would be sitting with about 40mil tied up for next year. In other words, we'd have zero guys killing us cap-wise and would be flush with cash. Don't make the Asik trade and we'd have yet another asset to throw into a deal.
So, numbers say it was Ryno by a landslide and so did things like NBA Rank - which is a panel of "experts" and their opinion - did as well. But I am just supposed to take your word for it that Klay was better instead?
Look, I have no problem admitting that I am wrong - have done it hundreds of times now it multiple mediums, but it is gonna require more than you just telling me I was wrong. I will need at least some facts. If I can't use stats, then what can I use? Just the eye test - or I guess more specifically, just your eyes?
Stats are never the be all end all, but until somebody comes up with something better, I will lean on them, especially when they show a clear superiority between two players. When it is close, I agree that circumstances can shift things and make the stats somewhat irrelevant. But, Ryno vs. Klay was not close in the past
@mcnamara247
Part of evaluating a trade is not only looking to the past for stats and production, but predicting the future. You were dead wrong in terms of value in the future and were absolutely right about their current value. Hindsight is 20/20, and we all know that. You said what you believed based off of your evaluation, and understandably couldn't tell the future. I bet if everyone else's feet were held to the fire with past evaluations they wouldn't come out so well themselves.
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
http://thebasketbawlblog.com/
I said it would be close. Other people said no to my Thompson, Green, and Biendrins trade for Eric Gordon!!!
And I do factor in the future. But I could not foresee Ryno getting hit by Wallace or Jackson being fired and Kerr being brought in. I still maintain that if Ryno doesn't collide with Wallace and Jackson is still the coach that Ryno would be better.
But yes, in this future I was dead wrong and am fine with that.
You're supposed to chill out in these debates and stop making statements like "Ryno vs. Klay was not close in the past." You were wrong on Klay, just say it. These are your comments:
"People see Klay once in a while and hear the cool 'Splash Brothers' name and they assume he is a good player. He isn't. He isn't Harrison Barnes bad yet (people coming around on that yet, or am I still going to hear about his ability too?), but Thompson is an average shooting guard at best." -- Michael McNamara
"And to say Klay is a good defender is not true IMO" -- Michael McNamara
He's an average shooting guard at best? That's laughable. Almost as laughable as he's not a good defender. It's wrong now, it was wrong then. And no one is telling you to stop using stats. I'm telling you to chill in debates instead of using just stats to determine who's better because the sport is so fluid. There are multiple variables that should go into deciding who you like better. In this case, all your variables turned out to be dead wrong. You wanted to keep Ryan Anderson over trading him for Klay Thompson. Then you made it worse by saying he's average.
And yet, you still want to protect your opinion by hiding behind "well, that's what the stats said". I'm not telling you to take my opinion on it. No one is telling you to take anyone's opinion on it. You should have your own opinion. My point is that you come to conclusions on players using stats and then use them as a shield. You don't need a shield. Just state your stats and realize that basketball is much more than stats. Again, stats are useful, but they shouldn't be used as a shield. I actually love the fact you bring so many stats to the table -- but it's like you believe that stats are the be all and end all of a discussion.
One last question: What was the highest level of basketball you played? I don't care if you played or didn't play (I won't dismiss your opinions either way) but I'd be slightly shocked by someone who played, say D1, trusting so much in the stats.
Last edited by Primetime; 01-26-2015 at 02:07 PM.
In fairness, if I recall correctly, Ryno was already coming off the Ben Wallace injury when you made your comments that you'd rather have him over Klay.
TBF it was Gerald Wallace
Ben, Gerald, Governor George ...one Wallace is the same as the next.
To me Klay is a much better defender than given credit, he does a great job using his height and length. As for MM, he does a good job and is right about most of the things he writes, but predicting how a player will develop is hard, he just got this one wrong, let's not crucify him, he said he was wrong.
Sorry I was away, I was digging up the hundreds of threads where I was right about the future.
But yes, this one I would have gotten wrong. But to be fair, if we always did things the way I wanted to, this team would have never kept Gordon, so this tread idea would have been irrelevant for me to comment on!
Anyway, moving on. The guy is a good player and I don't know how we contain he and Curry for the next 5-10 years. Will be some fun playoff battle down the line
The answer is Jrue Holiday. With so many great guards, people always rank Jrue after the top 10 because his offense isn't on par with those guys. But if you've got to face a great guard almost every night in the new NBA, you need Jrue Holiday more for his defense than anything he can bring to the table on offense.Sorry I was away, I was digging up the hundreds of threads where I was right about the future.
But yes, this one I would have gotten wrong. But to be fair, if we always did things the way I wanted to, this team would have never kept Gordon, so this tread idea would have been irrelevant for me to comment on!
Anyway, moving on. The guy is a good player and I don't know how we contain he and Curry for the next 5-10 years. Will be some fun playoff battle down the line
That's why Marcus Smart will be a great player for Boston, and why Rondo could be the reason why the Mavs make the finals.
Contributor 
He may be wrong now, but at the time he wasn't.
Personally I dont think so. Klay was (and is) a guy you can put in the starting lineup and he will give you good D along with his offense.
I wouldn't feel so comfortable with Ryno starting given his defense. He's also a poor rebounder at a position where that's important, and if his shot isn't falling he can be a major detriment
Klay and Ryno are both good players but Klay is better, i'd rate them something like this:
Ryno - 78/100
Klay - 82/100
Look, it's not a big deal that he was wrong. But at the time, Klay had just come off a 7 game series in which he was assigned to Chris Paul. As a 6-7 shooting guard, that's pretty impressive. He was and is the 2nd best player on a good playoff team. Meanwhile, Ryan was our 6th man whose biggest weapon was his shooting; but Klay has had better 3pt numbers every year. In fact, Klay has never shot below 40% from deep in any of his seasons. Ryan shot over 40% from 3pt range just last year for the first time (and again, Klay shot better last year).
Then on top of all this, by the time Michael made the comments, the season was over for the Warriors. This is key because it was this off-season where the Warriors said they wouldn't trade Klay because he was too valuable, and gasp, for his defense -- http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...or-kevin-love/
This was never a real debate. This is simply a case where Michael was wrong and all the events after that thread bear that out.
So what?
So are we getting Klay for Ryno or not? I got the van going, so I need to know if I am going to the airport tonight.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
So he was wrong at the time. What's the point of any your posts?
You've said this now like 5 times. He thinks he was right at the time you don't. We know where each of you stand. Quit trying to rub his nose in it. I'm against the MM slurp as much as anyone, but come on.
I think coaching has a big part to do with it. I don't think Monty gets the best out of Ryno. Look at his Orlando numbers. He was so good his last two seasons and he hasn't been that player here. His defense and rebounding has declined and his usage has increased. SVG got the most out of him IMO.
Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams
Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston
Dwight Howard effect. Plus he was playing a small role in 2010
I'm not trying to rub anyone's nose in the dirt. I've been wrong hundreds of times, worse than this. But if y'all are gonna make comments like "maybe not now, but at the time ryan was better" when all of basketball could see that wasn't true (and that should be clear given the events of the off-season), then I'm going to point that out.
P.S. And I like Ryan Anderson, I've stated in other threads within the past week that if it was up to me, I'd consider re-signing him now while he's cheaper.
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