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You have yet to make a point successfully. I am not sure you realize this.Originally Posted by pelicanchamp
I am sure the argument will continue, but moat of what was brought up in this thread won't help it one bit.
If you want a head start, criticize the win over Dallas. Clearly, such a bad coach did so much wrong that this will be easy.
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"Aime la vérité, mais pardonne à l'erreur." - François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire)
I am with Mythrol on the Les front. If he were a better coach, Michigan would have thrown the funny money at him to get him to Ann Arbor. You could put Art Bryles, Chris Pederson, Mark Helfrich, Kirk Ferentz, there are probably 4 or 5 more coaches of sound mind, with proven programs, who don't have the talent Les does, who would be putting up 10 win seasons at worst, because they have produced 10 win seaskns with less. Les Miles has gotten as far as he has based on the talent he has to work with. It has little to do with him as the "Mad Hatter" and everything to do with coordinators calling plays (hence the rise and fall with every coordinator). The day LSU loses Miles will be the day it goes to the highest of highes or lowest of lowes (based on the hire). Right now they are in a very nice neutral, but a neutral state none the less.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
So, let me follow the argument. It goes something like:
If a coach is good, Michigan would have went hard after him and got him because Michigan can recognize a good coach.
Yet, the last two they hired were Rich Rodriguez and Brady Hoke if I am not mistaken.
There might be good arguments for why Les Miles is not a good coach, but this was not the route to take gentlemen.
@mcnamara247
Not to mention, the last time they were hiring i don't think Miles was interested at the time. This time Harbaugh was sitting there without a job or a 1.5 M buyout. I'd be shocked and floored if Miles wasn't coveted by the Michigan board at anytime in the last 8 years.
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
http://thebasketbawlblog.com/
Rich Rod did great at WVU, and was the hottest name at the time. He had a nice cool style of ball, and people swore it would set the world on fire at a better program. He has modified his system at Zona, and he looks good once again.
Hoke was a Michigan man. They wanted a Michigan man, and they got the best one willing to move. The way Hoke had built up SDSU, Michigan was right to think they got the right guy, but they didn't.
Les is a good coach, but he killed the head light and stuck it in neutral. There might not be 2 steps back, but there aren't 2 steps forward.
All those coaches listed, they work with less talent than what is found in Louisiana (even Helfrich), yet they still produce solid records. Farentz will probably never leave Iowa, Helfrich's next job will be in the NFL (should he decide to leave), Pederson probably isn't coming to LSU either (he has turned down multiple high profile jobs while at BSU), so that leaves you with Briles, of Hudspeth at ULL. LSU would do far worse than contacting those two should Miles be stuck at 10 wins for too long.
The hires they made would have been made by anyone.
What does this mean?
I will give the coach credit after the next 10 games. I love this win. I am willing to change my opinion but there has to be consistent winning. I've made very good points and it your comments lack substance and are only used to insult others. Keep trying. I want an honest debate or discussion. You could be more interesting if you'd actually make comments about the team and share your own perspective. I see how you are and will take you with a grain of salt. Try to focus on the actual discussion. Not your silly put downs. Just a suggestion.
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There is no argument because this is a basketball forum and I spend enough time arguing with sunshine pumpers on tigerforums. I refuse to allow a Pels forum to devolve into arguing about how bad Miles is or isn't.
My point I was making is, Miles played at Michigan. He coached at Michigan. He was one of Bo's (JoePa of Mich) top assistants. There is no doubt at all that Michigan is his dream job. Yet even with all the coaching turnover there they haven't picked up Miles. I can promise you this much, when Miles leaves it will be a step down where he goes not a step up and I think that is the ultimate sign he is not as good as some are trying to make him out to be.
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LOL , hold on , If you read all my posts you'd would have seen that I said I am NOT one of those Saban groupies ,I am NOT like a jilted lover pining to have him back and in NO way am I blaming Les for not being Saban. Do I think Saban is a good coach ? I'd be stupid if i didn't.My lack of faith in Les comes from how his teams perform with the AMAZING amount of talent he recruits. His teams are always undisciplined , lack focus and generally underperform for the amount of talent they have. Add that to his POOR ingame mgt , his stubborn tendency to stick with things and players that are not working . To say that if it weren't for Saban Les would have 3 or 4 national championships i think is ludicrous, Kinda like saying if it weren't for Bill Walsh, Jim Mora would have been to the superbowl . You must have also not seen my post about how I would take Art Briles over Les , someone that WOULD come to LSU. I'll even give you a couple more , David Shaw Kansas St, Maybe a Mark Dantonio MSU. Hell I might even consider Spurrier, He's proven in a fertile recruiting area he can consistently be in the NC picture. Bottom line is While I really like Les as a man and a great recruiter, his wins come in spite of his coaching not because of it. he wins on talent not coaching. Bum Phillips once said of Don Shula " He can take his'n and beat your'n , and he can take your'n and beat his'n" That's the kind of coach I want in ALL of my teams
Gotta give credit to Monty for last nights game , great strategy at the end of the game . Keep it up PLEASE prove me wrong
I do believe Eman laid out pretty clearly, with examples, why most LSU fans disapprove of Les Miles as a coach. The title game gameplan vs. Alabama the most obvious.
Same with Monty. I've complained about the offensive sets win or lose. I also have no idea for how he holds players accountable for dumb mistakes, but either he encourages it (e.g. awful iso ball at the worst times) or his accountability strategy doesn't work.
Plays break down all the time. Teams play defense and also watch tape to adjust to what the other team is running.
If you want to debate, talk about Monty, not me. You are the one arguing to fire him, so it is on you to lob first, again.
And everyone is watching you not do that on the win streak. They'll see you try after the next loss, too.
Contributor
I make no apologies for unabashedly pulling for Monty to succeed. This is a truly good man - impossible not to root for.
Last edited by neworleanshoo; 01-26-2015 at 10:46 PM.
They tried to get Les Miles twice at Michigan. They turned him down twice. They didn't even bother this time.
They definitely win in 2011 if not for Saban. There are other years in there where they have 2 losses, where if they beat a SAban-less bama team, they probably get into the SEC championship game w/ a chance at a national championship. In 2012, LSU lost two regular season games. If they beat Saban (they lost 21-17 to #1 Bama), they are SEC west Champs and playing for a place in the title game. Saban beats Miles more than Miles beats Saban. Miles also beats Saban more than anyone else not named Urban Meyer does. Art Briles is a great coach. He also runs up pinball numbers playing against inferior competition (go look at his team's defensive statistics his entire tenure, and the horse manure out of conference schedule he plays every year). Dan Snyder is the Coach at Kansas St. Mark Dantonio can't win the Big 10. David Shaw is at Stanford, and has seen that program noticeably regress since Harbaugh left. Spurrier has won NOTHING of importance since leaving Florida despite playing in the weaker east and stacking top 10 recruiting classes.
LSU fans have unrealistic expectations. They are in the most competitive division in the most competitive conference in the country, with the most accomplished coach/program in the country. They haven't won less than 8 games in a season under the guy. Insane.
All of those coaches are also competing with better schools than Tulane, and ULL for talent (however I doubt Bill Snyder would leave K-State). In Louisiana Miles isn't battling with anyone but himself for talent...well and now Saban and Sumlin (enter Orgeron, and this new DC to reseal those boarders).
LSU fans might have unrealistic expectations, but after how Saban closed the boarders around Louisiana, all Miles had to do was not screw it up, and he would always have elite talent. But he can't get out of his own way more times than not.
I'm not even an LSU fan, but you can see that team deteriorate as time goes by. If they don't get a qb soon, they will hold firm to that 3rd or 4th spot in the West.
But Miles isn't like Monty. At least Miles has shown he can get the most out of the talent given to him.
Beating the MAVS was a good sign. It was the first win that felt like this team was playing really well together.
Beating 76ers at home was a must and I'm glad we won. I still hold the belief that Monty has not proven himself until we win 60 to 70 percent of games in a 10 game stretch. I think if we do this and keep doing well in the second half of the season then I will be convinced that Monty deserves another year. Playoffs is a must. If we don't make it we better come real close. Otherwise I'm pessimistic about Monty.
I think he just leaves some bad second unit lineups out there for too long and it kills some of the work the starters do. His fortunes seem to ride with Reke and as long as Reke plays well his job is safe.
So how has this board come to talk about lsu and football at that?
Ok , I'll respond to your post on here once more cause it seems to upset some people talking football on here , I was just giving coaching examples. If you want to respond or continue our discussion just PM me and I'll be glad to continue. Did you read how I compared your Saban to Miles reference to Bill Walsh and Jim Mora ? It's EXACTLY the same. Saban is a better coach than Les , that fact is undeniable , he took two mediocre programs and won NC with them , once again I am not the jilted lover waiting for Saban to come back. Bill Walsh was a better coach than Jim Mora, The Saints like LSU played in the same conference/division as the 9'ers /bama. If the 9'ers did not have Walsh then it's very likely that the Saints would have won the division most of the Mora yrs and had a pretty good shot at the SB, Why ? because Walsh was BETTER then Mora , just like Saban is BETTER than Miles . You are making Saban the fault that Les does not have more NC not Les being the inferior coach , Kinda like saying "if that team was not so talented and well coached , we'd beat them " As for my choices to replace Les , W's and L's is important but I look at other things. Does he get the most out of his players ? Are they disciplined ?Do they consistently make mental errors ? I also look to see if they have turned a program around or kept them playing at a high level. Most of the ones I mentioned fit that requirement ( you are correct on Bill Snyder at KSU , I musta had a brain fart ) As for Spurrier , hell yeah i'd take him . He HAS turned 2 programs around , don't know if anyone can win a NC at SC but he's getting closer that anyone has , finished 4th in the AP last yr. Ans since everyone quotes Les's W-L record Les since 2010 is 52-14 . Spurrier since 2010 42-11 , and that includes Les's 13-1 yr. Also All of the coaches I mentioned don't have what Les has, VERY fertile recruiting ground , Little to no instate competition and also the draw of playing in the SEC (other than Spurrier) What they do have is they are better with X's and O's , better discipline and WAY better game day coaches
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