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Thread: My Pels Dilemma

  1. #1

    My Pels Dilemma

    I love the Pels like all of you , but have the same feeling about Monty that I have about Les Miles from LSU . I am pretty much convinced that neither team will ever achieve ( especially the Pels) what we want from them with both coaches at the helm. Monty like Les seems to be a really good guy. He seems to develop young players well but can't get whats needed out of them on the court. I don't know if Monty's personality suits a HC. While I don't think you have to be a Bobby Knight throwing chairs , I do think you have to get fired up in their face when they are not executing what you want and if that's not working bench the player no matter what the cost. I pretty much am convinced that this yr is gonna be another wash. So, the dilemma is , the sooner Monty is not our coach the better, I find myself when we lose and play badly just saying "well maybe this will spur us getting THE coach we need much faster " Any of you feel that way ? Like the line from Shawshank , " Get busy living ,,,, Or get busy Dying

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by djrnno View Post
    I love the Pels like all of you , but have the same feeling about Monty that I have about Les Miles from LSU . I am pretty much convinced that neither team will ever achieve ( especially the Pels) what we want from them with both coaches at the helm. Monty like Les seems to be a really good guy. He seems to develop young players well but can't get whats needed out of them on the court. I don't know if Monty's personality suits a HC. While I don't think you have to be a Bobby Knight throwing chairs , I do think you have to get fired up in their face when they are not executing what you want and if that's not working bench the player no matter what the cost. I pretty much am convinced that this yr is gonna be another wash. So, the dilemma is , the sooner Monty is not our coach the better, I find myself when we lose and play badly just saying "well maybe this will spur us getting THE coach we need much faster " Any of you feel that way ? Like the line from Shawshank , " Get busy living ,,,, Or get busy Dying
    This is just me, but I honestly hate this mentality. I feel like Monty can't win at this point. At this point people aren't even cheering for him to succeed and prove himself to be a good coach. Any success is just met with disappointment that he won't be fired. I understand that a lot of people have seen enough and even if we beat our over/under of 43 wins; that just won't be enough. I don't disagree that leading this team to 44 means that our coaching situation needs to reevlauted; but I also have a hard time coming up with a realistic result from this season that would satisfy people.

  3. #3
    I noted on another post that, while I'm as frustrated as other fans, I am still cheering for Monty to succeed. All you need to do is look at a few minutes of the recent feature NBA TV did on him to see that he really cares for his players, the program, the city and doing things the right way. I'll root for that guy to succeed every time...

  4. #4
    I gotta say that from a Tennessee fans perspective, you guys seem spoiled when you complain about Les.

    He is no Saban, but 95% of teams would kill for your success since Les got there
    @mcnamara247

  5. #5
    The Franchise Contributor luigi modelo's Avatar
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    Im pulling for Monty. I have some reservations, but I am also patient enough to wait to see how the entire season unfolds before we decide to either keep, or fire him

  6. #6
    RIP HunnyB iNolaNightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djrnno View Post
    I am pretty much convinced that neither team will ever achieve ( especially the Pels) what we want from them with both coaches at the helm.


    And one of the best recruiters in football:

    Your standards are pretty high if he'll never achieve what "we" want. I agree, Les is frustrating. But he HAS achieved what LSU fans should want.

  7. #7
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    It's the combination of all the same stupid friggin' problems. Les Miles actually got many of the same problems Monty Williams has, only worse.

    He's terrible in game. His player management is atrocious. He poor attention to detail. I mean, this is a man that has his team go and spike the ball with two seconds left on the clock. Tries to call timeout after a turnover. Has a team that has gotten a delay of game penalty on a kickoff. After halftime. I didn't even know delay of game was possible before a kickoff.

    He doesn't play the best players, he plays the ones with seniority. His teams often look unprepared and discombobulated, wasting timeouts because they can't figure out what play they're running or screwed up the substitution package.

    He used the exact same gameplan against Alabama in the Nat'l Championship game as when they played in the regular season, and it barely worked the first time and totally didn't the 2nd.

    Yes, great recruiter. His players believe in him because he believes back. But he's not an Xs and Os guy. He's not some brilliant strategist. He's a bloody loose cannon. I'll always rep LSU because that's the flagship program of my beloved state, but Les Miles gets no love from me.


    The Coach O acquisition was huge though.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I gotta say that from a Tennessee fans perspective, you guys seem spoiled when you complain about Les.

    He is no Saban, but 95% of teams would kill for your success since Les got there
    The problem wasn't early success. It's that the team has been on a clear downward trajectory since 2011 NCG. I have said for a long time on LSU forums that Miles lost his fire since he won his ring.

    I thank him very much for what he has given us and done for the program but there is no doubt that we are on the decline. When you combine that with a reoccurring theme of Miles inability to recruit and develop QBs there is certainly an argument to be made against him.

    At the end of the day I view LSU football just like I do the Pels. I want the team to make moves to swing for the fence.

  9. #9
    I am just saying, declining from where you were is way better than where most teams are.

    And I saw Eman use words like atrocious and terrible for Miles. If he is atrocious and terrible, what words would we use to describe other coaches in college football?

    It's like Drew Brees this year - I saw a lot of Saints fans complaining, and compared to years past, he is definitely on the decline (like Miles apparently) but Raiders fans would kill for even the worst version of Drew Brees. It's all a matter of perspective

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I am just saying, declining from where you were is way better than where most teams are.

    And I saw Eman use words like atrocious and terrible for Miles. If he is atrocious and terrible, what words would we use to describe other coaches in college football?

    It's like Drew Brees this year - I saw a lot of Saints fans complaining, and compared to years past, he is definitely on the decline (like Miles apparently) but Raiders fans would kill for even the worst version of Drew Brees. It's all a matter of perspective
    There's also heightened expectations when you are top 5 in recruiting classes every year. My personal take is: Miles is a great man, a great mentor, and an amazing recruiter. Players love him and will go to battle for him.

    His problems all stem from game day issues. He runs an archaic offensive system that with all the rule changes simply isn't as effective anymore. In a lot of ways he reminds me exactly of Monty where the philosophy is to mitigate TOs and win off defense. Problem is just like Monty he has players better suited to a different system (Miles recruited all HS QBs that played out of the shotgun and never worked under the huddle until LSU)

    I also understand that many teams would love to switch places with LSU. But when you live in a state that has one of the highest per capita college level players in it and you have a history of winning and strong recruiting a 4 year span of not even competing is a big deal.

    Should he be fired? Probably not yet. But some people want to make a move now before the ship crashes to the bottom. I thank him for the past but I cannot live in it at the expense of the future.

  11. #11
    I would LOVE for Monty and Les for that matter to succeed and be the guy i could place my faith in like Payton or Loomis. I feel pretty confident that they will right the Saints ship. I was on Monty's and Les's side from the moment they were hired .Pulled for them to succeed and little by little they have chipped away at the confidence , sometimes chips sometimes boulders . Les is a great recruiter. with the kind of talent he has recruited we should be top 5 in all the yrs he has been here, it's his in game coaching and his pig headedness along with the lack of discipline that his teams have. LSU is one of the top 5 programs in the country we have a coach that gets by 80% on talent . I want someone that knows what to really do with that talent. Monty is kinda like that. I watched that association show, what I saw was a man that loves the game and his players and wants them deeply to succeed. What I also saw was Monty's sorta laid back personality may not be best suited for a head coach . He doesn't seem to be able to get out of them what he wants on the court.I truly wish monty could be THE guy more than anything , I just can't see it . And make no mistake I am NOT pulling for them to loose so Monty gets fired sooner, just when we do especially like losses to the Knicks and 76ers where that lack of focus and playing as a team are absent , I just think maybe it gets us closer to REALLY finding THE guy

  12. #12
    U-L-M...Geaux Hawks Geaux djpaul89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I am just saying, declining from where you were is way better than where most teams are.

    And I saw Eman use words like atrocious and terrible for Miles. If he is atrocious and terrible, what words would we use to describe other coaches in college football?

    It's like Drew Brees this year - I saw a lot of Saints fans complaining, and compared to years past, he is definitely on the decline (like Miles apparently) but Raiders fans would kill for even the worst version of Drew Brees. It's all a matter of perspective
    LOL rite...if LSU fans don't want Miles, we would kill to have him at ULM. (wouldn't happen but still lol)

    Maybe Louisiana sports fans are really spoiled...

  13. #13
    Mostly Harmless 42's Avatar
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    Even if Les, Monty, Sean, and whoever are the worst coaches in the world, most people can't make a single point that actually indicates it.

    Saying the right thing and actually being able to come up with the right thing, justify it are different. Many of the complaints here are just drivel.
    __________
    "Aime la vérité, mais pardonne à l'erreur." - François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    Even if Les, Monty, Sean, and whoever are the worst coaches in the world, most people can't make a single point that actually indicates it.

    Saying the right thing and actually being able to come up with the right thing, justify it are different. Many of the complaints here are just drivel.
    Monty has been touted as a defensive minded coach but for the last 4 years has had the worst defensive teams. He plays him team slow to make them appear to be better defensively. His offensive gameplan is stagnant with a low amound of ball movement and mostly iso plays. He doesnt build a system to fit his player instead he forces his personel to fit his sytem which takes away their strengths.



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  15. #15
    Back Door Man RUFshreve's Avatar
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    I will pull for Monty and Les to succeed as long as they are leading my favorite teams. Both seem like good guys that are likable and you can tell their players enjoy playing for them. The difference is, I still believe Les can lead LSU to the mountain top. I've just lost hope that Monty can ever do that with this franchise.

  16. #16
    I think LSU fans (of which I am not one) see Les as less than impressive because 10 win seasons are the norm now, and they have been since the Saban years. A 10 season for a Michigan, Tennessee, or Texas is like finding water in the desert. For a team like LSU, those 10 win seasons were impressive at first, but have since lost their luster. People now want a win over Saban and another National Championship. Those are the boxes that people now want checked off maybe even more so than a 10 win season. Saban hurt LSU's pride, and those people want blood. 10 win seasons show that you are good, but why can't you get an 11th win, and get into the title game? People get tired of the norm, even when the norm is something others would kill for. If LSU doesn't win a title in 2 years, Les will be gone.

    I feel much the same with Sean. He has been impressive his entire time here, but unless things take a break from the norm, and get into a more impressive state, even he will be run out of town by the same people who lauded his name during Lombardigras. "Nothing gold can stay" isn't just a catchy poem people know about because of the Outsiders, it's a fact of life.

    Monty is Monty, and doesn't belong in this conversation. He is the definition of mediocrity.
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  17. #17
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    My Pels Dilemma

    The arguments for keeping Monty are very weak. I've yet to hear one that makes any sense. You have no evidence for the team not being able to hire a better coach. Zero. There is a lot of SIGNIFICANT statistical empirical evidence showing 5 years of a losing record overall, terrible defenses despite proven elite defenders....

    What we have here is a decent coach who won't take the team deep into the playoffs.... Improvements are not enough. We need better defense and playoffs. Blaming the team is really unfair. Monty has coached many players and he gets the same results. He's a great assistant but not a great HC.

    We have smart posters on this board who want an argument for why we should fire Monty yet they have no evidence or strong argument for why we should keep him. His time is coming to an end. I like him but the results are unacceptable.
    Last edited by pelicanchamp; 01-23-2015 at 02:48 PM. Reason: h

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 42 View Post
    Even if Les, Monty, Sean, and whoever are the worst coaches in the world, most people can't make a single point that actually indicates it.

    Saying the right thing and actually being able to come up with the right thing, justify it are different. Many of the complaints here are just drivel.
    Let's turn this around on you.

    I am a New GM that is coming into the Pelicans organization this offseason. Assuming that out current trajectory holds steady to finish the season, maybe allowing for a slight improvement as we regain health, sell me on why Monty is the coach I should stick with over alternatives and what specific examples about his coaching style and philosophy back that up?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I gotta say that from a Tennessee fans perspective, you guys seem spoiled when you complain about Les.

    He is no Saban, but 95% of teams would kill for your success since Les got there
    THIS. I would take Les in a ****ing heartbeat (WVU fan)

  20. #20
    Anyone that wins a national championship has to deserve credit and I give some of that to Les. But let's take a lil closer look at that NC. A good portion of that squad was recruited and coached by Saban. ( no I'm not a Saban groupie) WE had MAJOR luck to EVEN be in that NC game , it was like Moses parting the red sea paving the way to that game for us , you say Les was not in control of that , yeah ok but VERY lucky. We were and still are the ONLY 2 loss team to EVER win a national championship. Since then Les has gotten us to one NC game with one of the most talented teams in recent history , and what happens ? COMPLETELY blows it , mostly by being out coached and being too stubborn to change from a incompetent QB to one that had had success . Les has a long history of BAD to REALLY bad game mgt. Sorry no faith in Les. But i really do hope he proves me wrong, that would be tasty crow

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    I think LSU fans (of which I am not one) see Les as less than impressive because 10 win seasons are the norm now, and they have been since the Saban years. A 10 season for a Michigan, Tennessee, or Texas is like finding water in the desert. For a team like LSU, those 10 win seasons were impressive at first, but have since lost their luster. People now want a win over Saban and another National Championship. Those are the boxes that people now want checked off maybe even more so than a 10 win season. Saban hurt LSU's pride, and those people want blood. 10 win seasons show that you are good, but why can't you get an 11th win, and get into the title game? People get tired of the norm, even when the norm is something others would kill for. If LSU doesn't win a title in 2 years, Les will be gone.

    I feel much the same with Sean. He has been impressive his entire time here, but unless things take a break from the norm, and get into a more impressive state, even he will be run out of town by the same people who lauded his name during Lombardigras. "Nothing gold can stay" isn't just a catchy poem people know about because of the Outsiders, it's a fact of life.

    Monty is Monty, and doesn't belong in this conversation. He is the definition of mediocrity.
    I'm with you on Les and Monty but with Payton not so much. We are 2 yrs removed from a devastating bounty gate blow , we still didn't have 2nd in 13 and yet we still managed to make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs last yr , I have faith that Sean will right the ship

  22. #22
    There are somethings that a well coached team in any sport have in common. Is the team focused ? Are they disciplined ? Do they make lots of mental errors ? Do they execute the coaches game plan ? Does he motivate his players to play at or above their talent level ? Have they progressed ? Is the team on a significant upswing the majority of the yrs he has been coach? And if a player does not follow the game plan in a disruptive manner that is contrary to the team goals is that player benched NO MATTER WHAT the cost . These are the qualities of a good coach in ANY sport beyond the X's and O's. How many does Monty have ?

  23. #23
    Being laid back or fiery has nothing to do with being a good coach... let's find a new point to make.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang View Post
    Monty has been touted as a defensive minded coach but for the last 4 years has had the worst defensive teams. He plays him team slow to make them appear to be better defensively. His offensive gameplan is stagnant with a low amound of ball movement and mostly iso plays. He doesnt build a system to fit his player instead he forces his personel to fit his sytem which takes away their strengths.
    Thats not Montys fault people tout him as a defensive coach.

    "I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"

    http://thebasketbawlblog.com/

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sovereign View Post
    Being laid back or fiery has nothing to do with being a good coach... let's find a new point to make.
    Not completely true.

    Popovic is known for his fiery outbursts

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