who would you rather Asik or Baynes?

[Pantazis76]

Let's start off with the salaries
Baynes is at 2.1mil while asik is at 8.3

Per 36 minutes highlighted stats

Baynes: 15.2 ppg 10.4 rpg 0.8 bpg

Asik: 9.9ppg 14rpg 1.2bpg

Considering there is a bit over 6 mil difference in their salaries, i think Asik is severely over payed at this point of the season, you could argue that his rebounding ability brings value, but lets not forget, reggie evans who is making 7 MIL less than Asik is also averaging 14 rpg per 36 minutes..
Our defensive presence has not picked up either, as we are one of the worst teams in points in the paint..

[SaintPelican225]

Let's start off with the salaries
Baynes is at 2.1mil while asik is at 8.3

Per 36 minutes highlighted stats

Baynes: 15.2 ppg 10.4 rpg 0.8 bpg

Asik: 9.9ppg 14rpg 1.2bpg

Considering there is a bit over 6 mil difference in their salaries, i think Asik is severely over payed at this point of the season, you could argue that his rebounding ability brings value, but lets not forget, reggie evans who is making 7 MIL less than Asik is also averaging 14 rpg per 36 minutes..
Our defensive presence has not picked up either, as we are one of the worst teams in points in the paint..

Baynes is a spot player....it's a unfair analysis.....if Baynes was so good, why isn't he playing in front of Splitter ? I share some of your frustration with Asik. He has been dismal at finishing around the basketball, other than that I have no problem with him.....I think the root of the problem for the Pelicans as a hole is the lack of a true SF. That would help with more length around the glass, which would help the front court.

[AD23forMVP]

This can't be a serious post.

And I keep reading "we are still one of the worst teams at points in the paint" but I don't ever here anyone talk about how no team allows more attempts at the rim than us, and by a good margin we lead the league. If you were to do the math, the second place team would have allowed nearly 60 less attempts at the rim over an 82 game season, and let me remind you that we are a team that doesn't push the ball up and down the floor. I wish there was a "attempt at the rim per defensive possession stat" or something. We would win that by a land slide. That tells me that we should worry less about Asik and more about our dreadful perimeter defense.

[N.O.Bronco]

I think Asik is a symptom of a larger problem that is team defense. Like most of the rest of the team he is putting up around career lows in a lot of advanced defensive categories.

When you have guys like Jrue who put up a 94 and 102 defensive rating in his final years at Philly and has came here and is posting a 108 defensive rating or Asik who started his career posting a 90 and 80 defensive rating and then a 101 and 102 in Houston, then comes here and posts a 108. You have to start asking why two defenders who are by all accounts good defenders are struggling so much. Some of it has to be personnel. We have no quality starting wing defender and our SG's aren't great defenders either. So it leaves a big hole at the 2 and 3 for opponents to exploit. In fact we have no real wing defender outside of Cunningham. But heres another rub he is interestingly enough also posting career DefRtg lows in our system. So then it stats to look like cohesion and/or system issues. It would be more tolerable to me if we were posting a much higher offensive rating to make up for the defensive deficiencies but while the offensive rating is up for most players, the defensive rating is down by a lager margin so our net rating for most starters and the bench is negative or barely positive.

[SaintPelican225]

I think Asik is a symptom of a larger problem that is team defense. Like most of the rest of the team he is putting up around career lows in a lot of advanced defensive categories.

When you have guys like Jrue who put up a 94 and 102 defensive rating in his final years at Philly and has came here and is posting a 108 defensive rating or Asik who started his career posting a 90 and 80 defensive rating and then a 101 and 102 in Houston, then comes here and posts a 108. You have to start asking why two defenders who are by all accounts good defenders are struggling so much. Some of it has to be personnel. We have no real wing defender outside of Cunningham. Who interestingly enough is also posting career DefRtg lows in our system. So then it stats to look like cohesion and/or system issues. It would be more tolerable to me if we were posting a much higher offensive rating to make up for the defensive deficiencies but while the offensive rating is up for most players, the defensive rating is down by a lager margin so our net rating for most starters is negative or barely positive.

Great point. The obvious holes at SF and backup PG is causing cracks everywhere else. I think Monty could do a little better with his rotations at times. I thought Withey should've gotten minutes in the Bulls game over Ajinca, because of his ability to guard the rim better. Someone with Ajinca's length should never foul a guy Aaron Brooks size. Russ Smith should've had a shot at Brooks instead of Rivers as well.

[N.O.Bronco]

This can't be a serious post.

And I keep reading "we are still one of the worst teams at points in the paint" but I don't ever here anyone talk about how no team allows more attempts at the rim than us, and by a good margin we lead the league. If you were to do the math, the second place team would have allowed nearly 60 less attempts at the rim over an 82 game season, and let me remind you that we are a team that doesn't push the ball up and down the floor. I wish there was a "attempt at the rim per defensive possession stat" or something. We would win that by a land slide. That tells me that we should worry less about Asik and more about our dreadful perimeter defense.

There actually is and you are pretty much right. Aggregated by zone we give up more attempts in the restricted area then any other team: 31.1. Aggregated by 5 feet intervals we give up the most attempts in the league 5 ft and closer: 33 attempts per game.

And when you look at Asik's advanced statistics you can get the picture that his slacking in defensive numbers have to do with our perimeter defense. In terms of guarding the paint his opponents FG% is up in the elite category. But when you start looking at statistics of his play around the rim, his numbers have dropped off. Well when you combine the ungodly high amount of attempts at the basket, our perimeter players weakness defensively there and how that can skew a big mans stats, you start to see that Asik isn't as bad as some of his numbers suggest on first glance.

That isn't to exonerate him completely. His butterfingers really hurt our guards that rely so heavily on high percentage drop offs around the rim that Asik struggles with.

[N.O.Bronco]

This can't be a serious post.

And I keep reading "we are still one of the worst teams at points in the paint" but I don't ever here anyone talk about how no team allows more attempts at the rim than us, and by a good margin we lead the league. If you were to do the math, the second place team would have allowed nearly 60 less attempts at the rim over an 82 game season, and let me remind you that we are a team that doesn't push the ball up and down the floor. I wish there was a "attempt at the rim per defensive possession stat" or something. We would win that by a land slide. That tells me that we should worry less about Asik and more about our dreadful perimeter defense.

There actually is and you are pretty much right. Aggregated by zone we give up more attempts in the restricted area then any other team: 31.1. Aggregated by 5 feet intervals we give up the most attempts in the league 5 ft and closer: 33 attempts per game.

And when you look at Asik's advanced statistics you can get the picture that his slacking in defensive numbers have to do with our perimeter defense. In terms of guarding the paint his opponents FG% is up in the elite category. But when you start looking at statistics of his play around the rim, his numbers have dropped off. Well when you combine the ungodly high amount of attempts at the basket, our perimeter players weakness defensively there and how that can skew a big mans stats, you start to see that Asik isn't as bad as some of his numbers suggest on first glance.

That isn't to exonerate him completely. His butterfingers really hurt our guards that rely so heavily on high percentage drop offs around the rim that Asik struggles with.

[N.O.Bronco]

Great point. The obvious holes at SF and backup PG is causing cracks everywhere else. I think Monty could do a little better with his rotations at times. I thought Withey should've gotten minutes in the Bulls game over Ajinca, because of his ability to guard the rim better. Someone with Ajinca's length should never foul a guy Aaron Brooks size. Russ Smith should've had a shot at Brooks instead of Rivers as well.

I was looking at Withey and Ajincas numbers and outside of sheer incompetency I have to imagine we are showcasing Ajinca for a trade or something because Withey is posting much better all around defensive numbers and has played better within the flow of the game then Ajinca. Ajinca overall is posting a very poor -6 net rating when comparing off and def rating. Combined with his high foul numbers at it is pretty bad unfortunately. Because frankly he is a very efficient scorer.

This coming from a guy that though Withey was bum elevated by fan favoritism and would be out of the league soon. But he has impressed me.

[Rheem654]

Cleavand is looking to trade for a big man/center.. wonder who they could trade for Ajinca.

[BP225]

A key stat that most people never look at for centers is Fouls per 36 minutes. Most good starting caliber centers are under 3 fouls per 36. Most good back ups are under 5 fouls per 36. The Ajincas and Stiemsmas of the world live at 6 or more, where Baynes is at 6.0 fouls per 36. You have to be able to defend without fouling or you're useless. That one stat makes all the other stats you're trying to argue irrelevant.

[N.O.Bronco]

A key stat that most people never look at for centers is Fouls per 36 minutes. Most good starting caliber centers are under 3 fouls per 36. Most good back ups are under 5 fouls per 36. The Ajincas and Stiemsmas of the world live at 6 or more, where Baynes is at 6.0 fouls per 36. You have to be able to defend without fouling or you're useless. That one stat makes all the other stats you're trying to argue irrelevant.

That is a very good point.

[JJackisangry]

I would rather Leighton Baines. As for this imposter Baynes, he hasn't had enough time in a starting role to really be taken seriously. That and Pop usually can get something out of every role player he finds. If he ever finds a starting job and puts up similar numbers (Asik had to leave Chicago to make a name for himself), then he may deserve a look.

[billfromfinance]

A key stat that most people never look at for centers is Fouls per 36 minutes. Most good starting caliber centers are under 3 fouls per 36. Most good back ups are under 5 fouls per 36. The Ajincas and Stiemsmas of the world live at 6 or more, where Baynes is at 6.0 fouls per 36. You have to be able to defend without fouling or you're useless. That one stat makes all the other stats you're trying to argue irrelevant.

Someone picked Stiemsma up, so we have to be thinking positively about Ajinca for trades as well hahaha.

[IamQuailman]

Beloved per 36.

[Tinman]

I think Asik is a symptom of a larger problem that is team defense. Like most of the rest of the team he is putting up around career lows in a lot of advanced defensive categories.

When you have guys like Jrue who put up a 94 and 102 defensive rating in his final years at Philly and has came here and is posting a 108 defensive rating or Asik who started his career posting a 90 and 80 defensive rating and then a 101 and 102 in Houston, then comes here and posts a 108. You have to start asking why two defenders who are by all accounts good defenders are struggling so much. Some of it has to be personnel. We have no quality starting wing defender and our SG's aren't great defenders either. So it leaves a big hole at the 2 and 3 for opponents to exploit. In fact we have no real wing defender outside of Cunningham. But heres another rub he is interestingly enough also posting career DefRtg lows in our system. So then it stats to look like cohesion and/or system issues. It would be more tolerable to me if we were posting a much higher offensive rating to make up for the defensive deficiencies but while the offensive rating is up for most players, the defensive rating is down by a lager margin so our net rating for most starters and the bench is negative or barely positive.

UMMM, Holiday's rating may have something to do with >>Harden,Curry,Parker,Paul,Conley,Westbrook,Burke,Li llard ! I mean, c'mon, really ? I didnt see any of these GUARDS in the LEASTERN conference ! Asik was a back-up in Chicago, in the Leastern conference ! Didnt have Duncan, Gasol, Gasol, Cousins, Howard (year 1) Jordan, !! Holiday has to run the the show and guard the top 10 guards in the NBA ! ASIK is undervalued as a defensive guy! He bangs around every night with the best centers in the NBA ! He's not here to score ! He.s here to rebound & let AD play #4 ! AD's #'s wouldnt be close to what they are now, if STIEMSMA was here ! Asik is 10th in rebounds, while averaging 7 minutes per game less than everyone in front of him !

[Tinman]

I was looking at Withey and Ajincas numbers and outside of sheer incompetency I have to imagine we are showcasing Ajinca for a trade or something because Withey is posting much better all around defensive numbers and has played better within the flow of the game then Ajinca. Ajinca overall is posting a very poor -6 net rating when comparing off and def rating. Combined with his high foul numbers at it is pretty bad unfortunately. Because frankly he is a very efficient scorer.

This coming from a guy that though Withey was bum elevated by fan favoritism and would be out of the league soon. But he has impressed me.

Ajinca would be PERFECT for Cleveland ! They dont play defense either !