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Well when they beat Charlotte and scored 100 in that game, I was still on here complaining about how bad the offense looked. Particularly the ball movement. It has been inconsistent since then. You still never see the ball swing from side to side. This offense, for better or worse, always uses only half the court available to them.
Very simple philosophy. It is incredibly difficult to put forth maximum effort on both ends of the floor. Spurs Warriors grizz and bulls are the few handful of teams who can do that. We have so much offensive fire power, but no team defense. You can just tell players are much more into on the offensive side. Being top 10 in offense is cool and all, but if we are bottom 25 in defense do you not think it is necessary that our offense must have to be much better in order to win games?
This team is the definition of inconsistent.
That is completely irrelevant to the conversation. I didn't say we were good on both sides of the ball. Our defense obviously needs to improve.Originally Posted by MMEmbreno
But you know nothing about basketball if you 1) believe being good on offense is not due to offensive scheme but because we don't play defense and 2) believe we only practice offense.
Go listen to interviews from players and coaches and you will hear them talk about defense all the time.
It has nothing to do with being a basketball guru. It has to do with being a sensible, logical person. I know that is really hard for some who want to just make sensational comments and not actually learn or even think about the game they watch. You wanna just be a fan and cheer? That's totally cool. That's more than fine. But if you're going to make comments about the philosophy of basketball and coaching you better make sense or people will call you on your ****.
There is no scheme on offense, We have enough talent on offense to score points which is what we do. You think jrue driving shooting midranges, tyreke driving, and giving Davis the ball is a scheme? The only game I recall Monty running plays is the 2nd Dallas game. There is no scheme here, but there are a few plays and a few very simple offensive sets that we still can't seem to figure out. Teams like the Suns and Spurs have legitimate offensive schemes not this team.
Cool story bro.
Ok, we do have a scheme on offense, it's in Monty's head and nobody follows it. Is that better? But seriously, how is getting the ball to AD so he can drive or shoot a scheme? It's a great idea is what it is.
This team is going to win the title, and Munty is going to take us there.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Thats all good, but there absolutely no excuse for what we saw tonight. NONE! Monty did not have this team ready to play. He took a step towards getting the axe with this one.
Monty is not getting fired mid season. We have to deal with him and hope the team plays better.
Monty not getting axed mid season is cool and all, and we can hope the players play well, but as we have seen, Munty will pull a hot player just because Sister Cleo says so.
I don't think anyone mentioned mid season.
Dude we're top 10 purely off of talent. We have Tyreke Evans, AD, Jrue and Ryno. Of course those ultra talented guys are gonna score efficiently, you need a competent coach with an offensive system in place for when talent just can't figure things out. The Spurs have a SYSTEM, the Warriors have a SYSTEM, Grizzlies have a SYSTEM. We play street ball on offense, just put the talent out there and let's see what happens. Put down the stat sheet and watch the tape.
so when we win, its purely because of talent, but when we lose its because we don't have a system? do you actually think this? honestly? what do you think these guys do when not playing? just run around outside shooting casual hoops 2v2? monty just sits back smoking cigars inspecting his jacket collection?
Seven points is the most you get from any starter. The top three scorers were off the bench. Rivers, Anderson, and Ajinca. Starting five = 28 points. Rivers and Anderson = 37 points. Now that's something you don't see every day. I don't agree with the starting five. It is not because of this one game. Just seems like a good time to mention it. Would like to see a little more offense inserted into the starting lineup.
The Pelicans should be ready to go for tomorrow as no starter played more than 28 minutes.
Last edited by ItIsRynosTime; 12-21-2014 at 05:06 AM.
The game is sitting on my pvr ready to be watched, but I'm afraid I'll be very upset the entire time. Good thing I had a Christmas party to go to
I think we lost because we overreacted to Lillard much of the time. Our defense in a weird way tried so hard to help that we go out of position and they jumped on us big time. I think it was bad execution on defense that got out of hand.
Contributor
Yep. Terrible defensive game plan. Shades of former Monty.
It's definitely pick your poison with gameplanning for Portland. Part of the reasoning could've been the last game. In the 4th when POR made that comeback Lillard hit some threes because of our big sagging back on the ball screen to Jrue.
So today they decided to hard hedge to take that away, but I don't think our bigs ever came out far enough to slow Lillard. So basically the hedge served no purpose. Lillard still turned the corner like it was nothing and left them with a 2 on 1 toward the rim.
If you hard hedge, it must be effective and well executed. If its not, then it probably shouldn't even be attempted. So coach and players are accountable for that one.
Granted I didn't watch the game because of a Christmas party(like chinny, don't know if I ever will given reactions) but as the discussion about offensive and defensive philosophy is going on I actually just wanted to share something I found interesting from none other then George Karl the other day. It was a piece about him helping the Colorado University basketball team.
http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/c...ay-even-fasterIn recent years, Karl said he became even more convinced about the advantages of a fast pace by watching Oregon football and Spain's soccer team that won the 2010 World Cup.
"Everything is based on quick decisions, fast decisions, and not allowing the defense to get stationary," Karl explained. "Basketball is the same way — you try to read the defensive mistake as quickly as possible. Once you get the defense in what I call 'scramble and recovery' you keep them in scramble and recovery. I think that's what Oregon football does."
Karl pointed out that Colorado struggled mightily to score in its last two games of the 2013-14 season: losses to Arizona (63-43) in the Pac-12 Tournament and to Pittsburgh (77-48) in the NCAA Tournament.
"It's tough as a coach when you see your players lose confidence," Karl said. "To pick up the tempo and play fast, take some controls of players' shot selection, let players have more freedom (on offense) but demand them to be defensive oriented, I actually think that's a simpler game."
It is an interesting thought. We all talk about how Monty runs a very complex defensive system and it takes years for guys to "get it" but Also asks our guys to run a mentally draining offensive system as well. Lots of long possessions, isolations, breaking down of a set defense using plays etc. We don't play very fast, we are 20th in the league in pace last i checked, which allows defenses to get out of what Karl would call the scramble and recovery mode and thus forces us to have to break down the defense in a half court set. Compare us to a team like Golden state that probably best exemplifies what Karl preaches to CU, they get out and run and play a fairly simple concept of constant movement on offense, every player is always moving. And they look for the first defensive lapse or mismatch and attack. Often early in the shot clock. People tend to mistake it for just jacking up shots but it's not that at all. It's a simple offensive concept built around pace, catching defenses off guard and exploiting it before they can recover(how many times did curry kill us with a shot after we slipped up on a screen or Draymond caught the defense over help off ball for a split second?) which allows players more freedom by tethering them to some basic concepts and letting them loose, then using their mental energy to focus more on the defensive end.
I feel like the kind of philosopjy that Monty preaches would work well for a San Antonio or a Memphis - veteran teams that can handle the mental challenge of a complex defense and offense. Our young core needs to build confidence and have complexity cut down in places. I mean how many times do some of our players look like Jekyl and Hide from game to game? And it's not like we preach things much different from a guy like Kerr: make the extra pass, play unselfish basketball, get out and run and play tough defense. It's the execution in achieving that philosophy that may be the barrier to ever reaching the ceiling monty aims for.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 12-21-2014 at 11:05 AM.
Well I can't take you seriously then. We run plenty of horns sets, run great down screen plays for AD, roll-replacement sets with AD/Asik and Ryno, etc.
To say we always run street ball offense speaks to your lack of basketball knowledge.
I think the youth excuse is really getting played out. Sure we technically have a very young core in age but except for AD, all of our main contributors have been in the league for at least 5 years. If they can't handle a semi-complex scheme and need to play glorified street ball because of it, then I think that is more on them and less on Monty. I'm not a Monty fan by any stretch of the imagination, but to keep blaming him for running too complicated of a system when the majority of his players have significant NBA experience is pathetic.
WATCH THE TAPE... When we lose it could be because a number of reasons. However, one consistent component during Monty's tenure is lack of system. Tyree complained for over a year that he didn't know his role, Austin Rivers complained publicly about not knowing his role, AD hustles for his points and is a talented player. Dude we have no succinct system in place. Watch the tape, watch yesterday's game, there were no "go-to" plays when we started getting blown out in the 2nd quarter, nothing from the coach at all.
Every team runs screen plays and pick and rolls. You can't sit here and tell me we have a system as sophisticated as the Spurs, guys like Splitter Diago and such come in and play a defined role immediately. Certain college teams have systems from great coaches, we don't have one, no creativity in this offense, get your eyes checked.
Would you call Golden States offense glorified streetball? Because its not.
There is just a disconnect between what Monty preaches and what the product on the floor is. He has preached pace for years now but we always end up in the bottom of the league in pace. We preach unselfish play and making the extra pass but last year we were the second heaviest isolation team in the league and I have to imagine we are high again. We have preached taking advantage of our shooters but we are in the bottom part of the league in 3PA again.
For the second year we are the only team that doesnt have at least one player average 1 secondary assist a game. The Pelicans offense rarely makes the opposing defense do any work off the ball and so defenses only concern themselves with the point of attack and nearby players Especially late in games.
What my thought was(and it is just that, a thought) is that taking a different approach to the offensive side of the basketball could create more confidence, consistency and save both physical and mental energy for better executing on the defensive side of the ball.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 12-21-2014 at 12:56 PM.
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