Imagine having a moron GM who thinks giving a cancer like Tyreke 4/48 is a good idea

[Ludiculous]

I'm so sick of these stupid posts.

Tell me how exactly having ROBIN LOPEZ (who two years ago everyone was begging, pleading, praying we got rid of) and a first round pick this year makes this team better than it is right now with Tyreke and Asik.

Tyreke Evans over the last 10 games has been averaging 14 points, 6 dimes, and 5 boards on 42% shooting with about a steal and a half. The dude has had a couple of bad games. Not every player can be super hot every single night. Players go through hot and cold streaks all the time. Tyreke just happened to hit that tonight.

And tell me why we are complaining about Jrue when he held John Wall (a player who single handedly destroyed us last year when he was hurt) to a measly 11 points, all while putting up a pretty respectable 17 and 7 himself.

Imagine a thread where people actually explained their opinion instead of anonymously bashing players, coaches, and GMs after the team loses.
Imagine a forum where fans where patient as we find our identity, taking the wins and the loses in stride

[N.O.Bronco]

I can see what we were trying to do with those moves at the time. But taken in as a whole, nope. Not a shining beacon.

However, some moves thrown in by others after the fact are fruitless. The Ariza and Okafor trade cleared us of two hard contracts and Ariza then wasn't the player he is now. Not by a long shot. The Bayless situation was so perplexing. Because it was clear Bayless had talent, but there was some bizarre disconnect. Either Demps made the move and Monty didn't really approve or something.

As for Austin Rivers, it's a draft. Just about every way you can look at it has hindsight backing you. Too easy to say what should've been Can only look at the move at the time...

And to be honest, something always worried me about Rivers. I said as much when we took him. But whatever. One way or another, we'll be sure what to do with him come the end of the season.


Now for Evans, when things aren't going well, yeah, Evans really looks like a bad move. But it's been called an experiment...yet there's strong evidence to say that it can work. That Evans can be a productive asset to the team. And it isn't hypothetical. It was pretty much all post-AS game last season. End of the day, agree with him or not. The moves Demps made haven't been moronic. Polarizing, sure. But the premise of the OP is just insulting.

We traded Ariza for essentially nothing. He wasn't a bad player for us, just used incorrectly. Much like Houston before he was asked to take on a role he shouldn't be taking on - namely go-to scoring option. How many times a game did CP3 just dump it to Ariza with 5 seconds left and he had to jack up a bad shot?? He is best as the 3rd or 4th option on a championship team. A true 3, D, slashing, hustle player. Though I can excuse that decision. It did clear Okafor and Ariza really wasn't going to be happy on a rebuilding team.

Evans I can not. What we gave up for what we got is just too much. Demps knew what our needs were going into that offseason. He knew we struggled at the 3 and had a player at the 2 that was injury prone. He knew we had two major holes to fill and had depth and injury issues at Center. He knew the type of coach Monty was and is. Instead of singing Morrow, Aminu and another player that could potentially start at the 3 he took a huge gamble on a guy who was unproven at the role he hired him for: Bench spark ala Manu Ginobolli and fourth quarter SF. At the expense of our starting Center, backup PG and cap flexibility.

Evans Cost: 5 million in cap space, Grievies Vasquez, Robin Lopez, 11 million on the books til 17/18, a hole at SF and Center.

The only way his deal comes out a net positive is if Evans plays like he did to end last season. Which is looking more and more like an outlier and a case of a bad team catching good teams off guard.

[kclaboy504]

I don't agree with everything op said BUT, we are a team that is cap strapped, no 1st rd picks, below .500 and not looking good at all. We see no progression from anyone on our roster outside of AD. Sorry, but this team is in complete shambles imo. I honestly feel we are in need of a new fresh start from up top. I've been a very big MONTY critic in the past BUT I'm not sure he has had a fair shake with wht dell has given him to work with. There just isn't much positives goin on outside of AD. Just how it is right now. Btw I still like the holiday trade too. I'd really like to keep a core 3 of holiday, Davis, and Asik. The rest can go.

[N.O.Bronco]

I'm so sick of these stupid posts.

Tell me how exactly having ROBIN LOPEZ (who two years ago everyone was begging, pleading, praying we got rid of) and a first round pick this year makes this team better than it is right now with Tyreke and Asik.

Tyreke Evans over the last 10 games has been averaging 14 points, 6 dimes, and 5 boards on 42% shooting with about a steal and a half. The dude has had a couple of bad games. Not every player can be super hot every single night. Players go through hot and cold streaks all the time. Tyreke just happened to hit that tonight.

And tell me why we are complaining about Jrue when he held John Wall (a player who single handedly destroyed us last year when he was hurt) to a measly 11 points, all while putting up a pretty respectable 17 and 7 himself.

Imagine a thread where people actually explained their opinion instead of anonymously bashing players, coaches, and GMs after the team loses.
Imagine a forum where fans where patient as we find our identity, taking the wins and the loses in stride

People are and have been backing up their opinions in this thread and elsewhere. You making an argument that amounts to basically begging the question and circular logic and asking people questions that have already been answered - in this thread no less - isn't one of those posts that are backing their opinions up.

[N.O.Bronco]

I've always been such a Demps supporter but... I kinda agree. You look at what everyone says: don't trade picks early in a rebuild. We all justified it by saying Demps knew what he was doing. But here we are with no picks and a team under .500 with absolutely NO young assets or cheap roleplayers. The same exact reasons why they say not to trade first early into a rebuild.

Tyreke seems worse then Rolo. Everyone around here said Rolo couldn't start for any decent team. He is. Vasquez was traded at peak value in that trade and he's solid depth for another really good team. I won't even go over Omer possibly walking this offseason because that's just too pessimistic even for me. God I hope we can keep him.

I'm still fine with the Jrue trade because he looks like he helps the team win. I'm not going to say it's something we undoubtedly should've done but I love Jrue and his impact is obvious. But Tyreke... Man it's just a love hate relationship. I'm excited to watch him play but dang he can't work off the bench, dang he can't play without floor spacers, dang he needs the ball a bit more DANG HE CANNOT MAKE LAYUPS. WITH THE BALL IN HIS HANDS. IN THE STARTING UNIT. WITH ANDERSON IN.

I'm just sad. I'll get bashed for this but I'd like to say I still have faith in this team. I'm just ranting.

But there is cause for concern. I think that's fair to say.

This is the other angle. Evans is showing that he is not an adaptable player. He works optimally only under very specific circumstances and forcing the team to bend that way would hurt this team and more importantly our superstar.

Even in those optimal conditions though he is an incomplete player. He can't jump shoot off the dribble so that limits his options in pick and roll. He isn't a great off the ball player and he is hit and miss on defense. He isn't a true PG so he can't be asked to efficiently distribute and run the offense for four quarters.

We all thought that Evans would play the Iggy/Lebron role by being a point-forward while Jrue and Gordon play off ball but he just doesnt have the vision and BB intelligence to do that for four quarters. That experiment lead to Evans getting tunnel vision and having our offense look like 4 guys standing around and watching Evans dribble and drive.

[HoustonPelicans]

My, my, my. How passive-aggressive of you, old bean.

When the premise of the thread doesn't really have much thought or tact put into it's creation, begging the question all throughout the post, what obligation do I have to provide much in a substantive rebuttal?

If you feel that way then why reply to the thread at all? Why not just read and move on?

[Ludiculous]

People are and have been backing up their opinions in this thread and elsewhere. You making an argument that amounts to basically begging the question and circular logic and asking people questions that have already been answered - in this thread no less - isn't one of those posts that are backing their opinions up.

I guess I missed the post where OP explained why Demps moves were bad ones.

And I'm pretty sure I provided some evidence as to why Reke and Jrue aren't terrible players. I would have provided way more but I just got off work (after dealing with three straight days of black friday nonsense) and am way to tired to do the research.

[Ludiculous]

This is the other angle. Evans is showing that he is not an adaptable player. He works optimally only under very specific circumstances and forcing the team to bend that way would hurt this team and more importantly our superstar.

Even in those optimal conditions though he is an incomplete player. He can't jump shoot off the dribble so that limits his options in pick and roll. He isn't a great off the ball player and he is hit and miss on defense. He isn't a true PG so he can't be asked to efficiently distribute and run the offense for four quarters.

We all thought that Evans would play the Iggy/Lebron role by being a point-forward while Jrue and Gordon play off ball but he just doesnt have the vision and BB intelligence to do that for four quarters. That experiment lead to Evans getting tunnel vision and having our offense look like 4 guys standing around and watching Evans dribble and drive.

Not all of that can be attributed to Evans tho, where is the off ball movement when there is no play run, the collective IQ of the whole team is terrible. If there isn't an exact play drawn up telling each player where to go everyone just stands around. And a lot of that falls on the Coaching staff. Maybe we need to run a play every single time up the floor so we have more movement. Granted his defense has been extremely hit or miss but we have seen marked improvement on his three point shot this year (which was one of our biggest complaints about him) he is still pretty young if this season plays out and we don't see much more improvement then we can talk about moving on from Reke but give him time

[N.O.Bronco]

I guess I missed the post where OP explained why Demps moves were bad ones.

And I'm pretty sure I provided some evidence as to why Reke and Jrue aren't terrible players. I would have provided way more but I just got off work (after dealing with three straight days of black friday nonsense) and am way to tired to do the research.

Thats not really a full picture of Evans though, at least you understand that. Thats a couple data points that miss the bigger picture. He is currently 0-11 from 3 over the last 5 games. 34.7% from the field. He is missing lay ups consistently, killing ball movement, has low BBIQ, limited in the PnRl due to poor jump shooting, struggles to play within the system and has been overall bad defensively.

The issue is whether Evans benefits outweigh his costs. And they don't IMO. Evans cost us 5 million in cap space, our starting center, our back up PG, 11 million on the books til 17/18 and created a hole at SF and Center in the process of his acquisition.

Not all of that can be attributed to Evans tho, where is the off ball movement when there is no play run, the collective IQ of the whole team is terrible. If there isn't an exact play drawn up telling each player where to go everyone just stands around. And a lot of that falls on the Coaching staff. Maybe we need to run a play every single time up the floor so we have more movement. Granted his defense has been extremely hit or miss but we have seen marked improvement on his three point shot this year (which was one of our biggest complaints about him) he is still pretty young if this season plays out and we don't see much more improvement then we can talk about moving on from Reke but give him time

I agree the team struggles as a whole. But Evans struggles more then anyone else so far. Let me ask this, how would you effectively use Evans while maintaining others players usage and efficiency?

[HoustonPelicans]

My problem with Demps is he has no idea of how to build a team. He does not know the value of a first rd pick, cap space or players. He creates holes and has to use assets to fill them. He gives huge contracts to players who don't fit. He's constantly trying to fix his own mistakes. He has been making bad decisions since drafting Anthony Davis, rushing the process.

Take away every Demps trade since getting Anthony Davis and we are in a better place than we are today.

[Perth_Hornet]

My problem with Demps is he has no idea of how to build a team. He does not know the value of a first rd pick, cap space or players. He creates holes and has to use assets to fill them. He gives huge contracts to players who don't fit. He's constantly trying to fix his own mistakes. He has been making bad decisions since drafting Anthony Davis, rushing the process.

Take away every Demps trade since getting Anthony Davis and we are in a better place than we are today.

I sadly agree.

[Pelifan]

We traded for Holiday and signed Reke when Teague was available. A lot of people on this board really wanted him. Me included. Even this summer we probably needed Isaih Thomas's playmaking as much or more than we needed Asik. I think Jrue can be a winning player but he needs another lead guard Phoenix Suns style. I actually like Gordon next to someone like Rondo. Bad fit for Jrue though. Tyreke has been a big part of our losses recently. He needs to learn to draw fouls on his drives. Since I don't know if he'll ever make a layup. He just is way too inefficient to be a starter right now. And he gets lost offball defensively.

[N.O.Bronco]

We traded for Holiday and signed Reke when Teague was available. A lot of people on this board really wanted him. Me included. Even this summer we probably needed Isaih Thomas's playmaking as much or more than we needed Asik. I think Jrue can be a winning player but he needs another lead guard Phoenix Suns style. I actually like Gordon next to someone like Rondo. Bad fit for Jrue though. Tyreke has been a big part of our losses recently. He needs to learn to draw fouls on his drives. Since I don't know if he'll ever make a layup. He just is way too inefficient to be a starter right now. And he gets lost offball defensively.

Thats a very good and overlooked point. Although Teague was a RFA, Atlanta probably would not have matched if we offered that same amount we are paying for Jrue or even a little less. And it would of come without having to give up two first round picks.

Still, I can understand to an extent Demps taking the offer on the table for Jrue instead of risking that we wouldn't be able to sign someone like Teague after the draft.

[Jabberwalker]

Imagine having anything bettet to do than write a thread complaining about results in the early parts of building a team as if your life depended on it but it turned out it was just a game.

[SeaLegs]

Lately there have been some really awful posts on this forum.

This is one of them.

Also, shouldn't pejoratives such as cancer also be covered and banned under the no profanity board rules?

[Mr. West]

People really don't like the idea of questioning Demps. They call your posts awful and laugh at you if you do so. I don't get it.

[UptownFuz504]

I don't agree with everything op said BUT, we are a team that is cap strapped, no 1st rd picks, below .500 and not looking good at all. We see no progression from anyone on our roster outside of AD. Sorry, but this team is in complete shambles imo. I honestly feel we are in need of a new fresh start from up top. I've been a very big MONTY critic in the past BUT I'm not sure he has had a fair shake with wht dell has given him to work with. There just isn't much positives goin on outside of AD. Just how it is right now. Btw I still like the holiday trade too. I'd really like to keep a core 3 of holiday, Davis, and Asik. The rest can go.

Good post bro

[UptownFuz504]

Here's Tyreke in a nutshell from my point-of-view. When he was "awesome", there was no EG, Ryno, or Jrue. He was able to be ball dominate and have AD clean up his mess. Sorta like in SacTown with Boogie. Now The team is compete with all the parts Dell envisioned and it is quite obvious that Reke does not play well with others. When he had the ball in his hands, EG basically wasn't involved (Jrue is partly to blame also). Every possession became a 1-on-1 situation and guys were basically trying to get theirs. Monty takes the ball out of Reke's hands and Jrue poink point and low and behold, EG gets involved, ball movement got better, and there was some sense of gelling starting. That also started Reke's bad play. No doubt Reke will get you stats but it's always at the expense of his teammates. See AD's no touches in the 4th.

[fullcourtpress]

imagine a GM taking Rivers over

Terrance Ross
Terrance Jones
Moe Harkless
Perry Jones
Draymond Green
Evan Fournier
Tony Wroten
Kris Middleton

[Topdawg26]

It's amazing how people use Evans as a scapegoat on this board (Just like Robin Lopez before he left). He's damned if he goes for 30 points 8 rebs and 8 assists because he will be shooting to much and he's heaven forbid if he has an off night last yesterday then he's a freakin cancer. I feel like even Jrue gets this from time to time here if he scores over 20 points in a lost. What do you want from him?!?! He's the best ball handler that we have so he's going to have the ball in his hand. However, there are two problems. 1.) He needs to do a better job of finishing at the rim like what he did in the second half of last season. 2.) We need to actually run plays when he has the ball instead of him or ever Jrue in an iso then when they lose the dribble they just pass it to AD. A pick and roll play between AD and Evans would be ideal but that's on Monty. Give the guy a break it's a young team and it's early in the season. They will figure things out. Like it or not he's the second or third best player on our team so he's going to have to shot the ball from time to time unless you want Rivers throwing up air balls all day.

[Ludiculous]

Thats not really a full picture of Evans though, at least you understand that. Thats a couple data points that miss the bigger picture. He is currently 0-11 from 3 over the last 5 games. 34.7% from the field. He is missing lay ups consistently, killing ball movement, has low BBIQ, limited in the PnRl due to poor jump shooting, struggles to play within the system and has been overall bad defensively.

The issue is whether Evans benefits outweigh his costs. And they don't IMO. Evans cost us 5 million in cap space, our starting center, our back up PG, 11 million on the books til 17/18 and created a hole at SF and Center in the process of his acquisition.


I agree the team struggles as a whole. But Evans struggles more then anyone else so far. Let me ask this, how would you effectively use Evans while maintaining others players usage and efficiency?

I def agree that Evans has his flaws. But IMO we have waaay more pressing needs that are destroying this team than Reke's play. We have 0 depth, and literally a deadweight contract because EG cant ever stay on the floor. Why complain about some one who is actually productive for us every now and then than a bench who has never done anything and 15 million dollars we are literally throwing out of the window.

At the end of the day Tyreke is a part of this team. You have to take the good with the bad. We can't change what Tyreke isnt good at so you have to play to his strengths. Look at how well Reke played with Morrow. Dell tried to go out and surround him with shooters signing Jimmer and Salmons but obviously both of those have been busts. But what was he supposed to do. At the moment we are cash strapped. He had minimal options in front of him. As soon as we can get rid of EJ's contract we can bring in the wing player and the bench players that can complete this team.

We have to remember this is no where close to the finished product, I think people tend to forget that.

[BallSoHard]

OP post Tyreke's TS at 46% as a negative.
OP post we traded Ariza for nothing and he was good.
BSH goes to look at Ariza's 3% higher TS Ariza posted in his last year with us.
BSH post this.

[BallSoHard]

imagine a GM taking Rivers over

Terrance Ross
Terrance Jones
Moe Harkless
Perry Jones
Draymond Green
Evan Fournier
Tony Wroten
Kris Middleton

Imagine a GM being able to look into the future during the draft and be able to use that information as a a reason to draft a player.

[IamQuailman]

BUMP