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Thread: How Austin Rivers can help the Pelicans with the loss of Eric Gordon

  1. #1

    How Austin Rivers can help the Pelicans with the loss of Eric Gordon

    Eric Gordon is out indefinitely again. This time, it's not the knee that's taken out the Pelicans' guard, but a torn labrum suffered Saturday vs. Utah. The veteran guard was thought of as the heir apparent to the "best shooting guard after Kobe and Wade" just three years ago, but injuries have robbed him of that potential. He never wanted to sign with New Orleans after being sent there in the Chris Paul trade, he wanted to go to Phoenix. And since then it's been a cavalcade of injuries.

    Without Gordon, the Pelicans could face a serious problem. The had slid Tyreke Evans into the small forward spot, and he's been playing well in that position. The risk was always that if Gordon got hurt, they'd have to move Evans to the two, and behind him are Luke Babbitt and John Salmons -- they have a small forward depth problem.

    But looking at the way the Pelicans have played, there's reason to have some faith in the Pels' ability to survive without Gordon, and the fix comes from an unlikely place.

    Austin Rivers.

    A RIVERS RUNS THROUGH THE GOOD LINEUPS

    Yes, the son of Doc Rivers who as a rookie out of Duke had one of the worst seasons for a first-year player ever, has quietly made strides which have a lot of promise for the Pelicans.

    Rivers is averaging 7.4 points and 2.3 assists per game, which are both down from last year's numbers. But the key individual stat-sheet metric is that he's shooting 46 percent from the field, with a career-high 55 percent True Shooting percentage (factoring free throws and threes). That efficiency is key, but the bigger impact comes when you look at his on/off numbers.

    The Pelicans are 5.4 points per 100 possessions better with him off the court than on, that's not a great metric. But first, his overall impact has been a slight positive, the Pelicans are plus-0.5 points better than their opponent with him off. But it really gets interesting when you look at how he performs with various combinations of the Pelicans' key players.

    Playing with better players (i.e. Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday) is going to give you better on vs. off numbers in general, and since Rivers comes off the bench, he's often playing those minutes with the superior teammates against weaker competition. Still, the numbers are compelling.



    In short, the starting combination of Anthony Davis and Jrue Holiday have both individually and as a pair been better with Austin Rivers on the floor than Eric Gordon. A lot of this has to do with what has made so many dual-point-guard lineups successful: It gives you two playmakers and ballhandlers, and Rivers' ability to get to the rim really helps when you have the weakside as open as it does when you overload one side with Davis and Holiday.

    Now, this isn't really a decision to make with Gordon out, but it does show that Rivers has been particularly effective, even more than expected, with those two on the floor. The question then, is what happens to the bench?

    BENCH PRESS

    The Pelicans are 19th in bench points per game according to HoopsStats.com, and taking Rivers off of it can have some serious issues. But there are three ways to mitigate this.

    1. Play Evans at point more with the second unit. Evans has been good enough to maintain his starting spot, but he's also a ball-dominant guard who played at point guard for the first few years and primarily is the ball-handler when Holiday and/or Rivers is not in, and often when they are. Getting Evans the first break to come in with the second unit and push the offense vs. bench opponents could allow him to make more of an impact. That way Evans starts and is happy, and isn't fighing over the ball as much with Holiday.

    2. Jimmer time. Jimmer Fredette has looked like an NBA point guard lately, and giving him some more times to effectively fire at will should be part of the plan for Monty Williams and company. Yes, you're going to get shredded defensively, but bear in mind the Pelicans' bench defense has actually been pretty good.

    3. Gotta go deeper. Williams likes to play a tight rotation, but taking Gordon out means the wear and tear on the rest of the starters will be greater from a possessions standpoint, so going more to John Salmons, Luke Babbitt and even Russ Smith is going to be necessary, unless the Pelicans bring in another guy.

    It seems unlikely, but Austin Rivers has been a net positive for the Pelicans this season. Going with two ball-handlers on the floor could mean more oops for Anthony Davis, better spacing, and less confusion than just sliding Tyreke Evans over and filling in the gaps. Keep Evans where he's comfortable, add a second ball handler, and keep what's working going. The Pelicans have a thin line to walk in the Western Conference. They need to stick with what works, as unconventional as it may seem.
    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-...of-eric-gordon



    1-6

  2. #2
    still curious to why u think salmons can't shoot the 3 tho.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    still curious to why u think salmons can't shoot the 3 tho.
    Because he bricks most of the open ones he's had

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang View Post
    Because he bricks most of the open ones he's had
    So someone is a career 37% 3pt shooter who has done this while taking 1,964 three pointers and has shot the 3 at 39% over his last 3 seasons has become a bad 3pt shooter because he has shot 1 out of 4 from 3 this year? Love your logic, its brilliant.
    Last edited by HornetGuru; 11-24-2014 at 05:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang View Post
    Because he bricks most of the open ones he's had
    I remember this one time, when Shaq went 4/4 from the FT line in a game. Best FT shooter EVAAAA!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    So someone is a career 37% 3pt shooter who has done this while taking 1,964 three pointers and has shot the 3 at 39% over his last 3 seasons has become a bad 3pt shooter because he has shot 1 out of 4 from 3 this year? Love your logic, its brilliant.
    36.6% which is average at best and the problem with him is that he is failing the eye test by flying colors. As he did with Toronto and Sacremento before him. Just ask their fanbases.

  7. #7
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! NOLa.'s Avatar
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    I think it's hilarious that the guy that pulls random stats to backup his claim for nearly every player he thinks of and used PER36 forever is scoffing at and deriding a pretty decent writeup.

    Carry on.

  8. #8
    I think the main criticism I have is the context of those stats. Rivers rarely is playing against the opposing teams best players or all of the opponents starters for a long stretch of time if at all. Gordon is. So I think the lurking variable here is the matchups.

    It will be interesting to revisit these stats if Rivers gets the start and we get a look at that lineup for a few games.

    However I will be the s=frist to say how impressed I have been at Rivers growth. I still think he struggles with decision making and playing facilitator and that may hurt us with him in our starting lineup.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    36.6% which is average at best and the problem with him is that he is failing the eye test by flying colors. As he did with Toronto and Sacremento before him. Just ask their fanbases.
    average, idk about that, paul pierce is a career 37% 3pt shooter.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    36.6% which is average at best and the problem with him is that he is failing the eye test by flying colors. As he did with Toronto and Sacremento before him. Just ask their fanbases.
    Not talking about if he is good or not, we are talking 3pt shot, he shot 39% from 3 for toronto.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by NOLa. View Post
    I think it's hilarious that the guy that pulls random stats to backup his claim for nearly every player he thinks of and used PER36 forever is scoffing at and deriding a pretty decent writeup.

    Carry on.
    What are you talking about? I think its hilarious you think i'm "scoffing" the write up, I liked the article a lot, in another thread ByrdGang responded to one of my posts that Salmons can't hit the 3, I asked why he and didn't reply so I decided to ask here. t wanted to know why he considered salmons someone who can't shoot 3's. Good try tho. Doesn't matter, your one of a couple posters on here that I don't really value their basketball knowledge anyway.
    Last edited by HornetGuru; 11-24-2014 at 08:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    average, idk about that, paul pierce is a career 37% 3pt shooter.
    Last year the league average was 36% on the dot. What Paul Pierce shot has no relevance on Salmons nor is even an accurate comparison. They aren't taking anywhere close to the same type of shots.


    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    Not talking about if he is good or not, we are talking 3pt shot, he shot 39% from 3 for toronto.
    Sure he shot that in Toronto, but he's not hitting that right now. He's not flowing within the offense to get himself those looks, he can't create for himself, and he is really providing no value over Rivers or Babbit. Like there is literally 0 argument for why he should be getting those minutes. Once upon a time we could say he was the best defender of the group but that definitely is not true.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    Last year the league average was 36% on the dot. What Paul Pierce shot has no relevance on Salmons nor is even an accurate comparison. They aren't taking anywhere close to the same type of shots.




    Sure he shot that in Toronto, but he's not hitting that right now. He's not flowing within the offense to get himself those looks, he can't create for himself, and he is really providing no value over Rivers or Babbit. Like there is literally 0 argument for why he should be getting those minutes. Once upon a time we could say he was the best defender of the group but that definitely is not true.
    Lol he's not doing that now? He has only taken 4 attempts and has only played 46 minutes. And once again, where did I EVER say he should get those minutes over rivers or babbitt? Once again, not the argument at hand.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    Lol he's not doing that now? He has only taken 4 attempts and has only played 46 minutes. And once again, where did I EVER say he should get those minutes over rivers or babbitt? Once again, not the argument at hand.
    Then what is even the argument? That he can shoot threes? Not seeing how that is relevant in a thread about Rivers replacing Gordon.

  15. #15
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Saying Salmons is a terrible 3 point shooter because of the sample size this season is an absolute joke. Guru is right when saying take his career sample size and the last 3 years. Has he done anything here? No! But that does not make him a terrible 3 point shooter and if you don't think 37% is good you don't know basketball. Having a 37% career is a very good % and 39% over the last 3 seasons is also very good. I guess Morrow is terible because of the horrible seasons he had until he got here to show what he can really do. Salmons isn't even in a slump cause he hasn't had the chance to. If there is 1 thing the guy can do that is hit the 3 decently and I'm sure a reason Dell decided to give him 2 million.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    Then what is even the argument? That he can shoot threes? Not seeing how that is relevant in a thread about Rivers replacing Gordon.
    You don't have to see the relevance, its irrelevant actually. I already explained it, go read again.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Saying Salmons is a terrible 3 point shooter because of the sample size this season is an absolute joke. Guru is right when saying take his career sample size and the last 3 years. Has he done anything here? No! But that does not make him a terrible 3 point shooter and if you don't think 37% is good you don't know basketball. Having a 37% career is a very good % and 39% over the last 3 seasons is also very good. I guess Morrow is terible because of the horrible seasons he had until he got here to show what he can really do. Salmons isn't even in a slump cause he hasn't had the chance to. If there is 1 thing the guy can do that is hit the 3 decently and I'm sure a reason Dell decided to give him 2 million.
    Don't use logic in this thead!

    But seriously, I guess if steph curry was shooting 1/4 from 3 this season he would be a terrible 3pt shooter also, forget the past!!!

  18. #18
    Unstoppable! GuardianAngel25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    Don't use logic in this thead!

    But seriously, I guess if steph curry was shooting 1/4 from 3 this season he would be a terrible 3pt shooter also, forget the past!!!
    Haha go look at Morrow for 2 seasons before he got here. Guy was one of the best 3 shooters in the league for a while then gets no time so all the sudden he is terrible and can't shoot. Guy comes to Nola healthy and gets good minutes to just light it up and get a nice contract for a serious contender. Not saying Salmons is Morrow but I would like to see the guy get some minutes off the bench in which the injury to Gordon will give him the chance. I wanna see Rivers in the starting lineup and a little more Jimmer and Salmons with the 2nd unit.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Haha go look at Morrow for 2 seasons before he got here. Guy was one of the best 3 shooters in the league for a while then gets no time so all the sudden he is terrible and can't shoot. Guy comes to Nola healthy and gets good minutes to just light it up and get a nice contract for a serious contender. Not saying Salmons is Morrow but I would like to see the guy get some minutes off the bench in which the injury to Gordon will give him the chance. I wanna see Rivers in the starting lineup and a little more Jimmer and Salmons with the 2nd unit.
    Ya I totally agree 100%.

  20. #20
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! NOLa.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    Doesn't matter, your one of a couple posters on here that I don't really value their basketball knowledge anyway.
    You're*

    I doubt I'm the only one that feels the same towards you. Go find another future SF that's on another team lol

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by NOLa. View Post
    You're*

    I doubt I'm the only one that feels the same towards you. Go find another future SF that's on another team lol
    Haha the grammar police, classic. If you wanna focus on grammar you didn't use a period at the end of your last sentence. If YOU'RE gonna mock someone about their grammar try not to mess up YOUR own grammar in the same post. lol, that is priceless!!!

    Also because someone is a SF on another team, or a restricted free agent means there is no way we could sign him right? A RFA has never left their team. Brilliant once again.
    Last edited by HornetGuru; 11-24-2014 at 09:57 PM.

  22. #22
    Saint Pelican of Mile High Contributor DefensiveMind's Avatar
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    If people would spend as much time evaluating the argument being made, as opposed to evaluating what screen name is posting it and trying to 1 up people or make them look stupid this place would be so much more awesome.

  23. #23
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! NOLa.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    Haha the grammar police, classic. If you wanna focus on grammar you didn't use a period at the end of your last sentence. If YOU'RE gonna mock someone about their grammar try not to mess up YOUR own grammar in the same post. lol.

    Also because someone is a SF on another team, or a restricted free agent means there is no way we could sign him right? A RFA has never left their team. Brilliant once again.
    Per36 this post was bad 36 times.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NOLa. View Post
    Per36 this post was bad 36 times.
    Lol first you shouldn't even post again after correcting someone's grammar and being wrong on your own. 2nd you shouldn't post again because who corrects someone's grammar? 3rd, haha the per 36, when you have to result to these things, u've already lost the argument and basically admitting to it. Keep going, please.

  25. #25
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! NOLa.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HornetGuru View Post
    u've already lost the argument.
    You've*

    If you're spending your time trying to win the internet, I'm sorry. Keep going off-topic like you did with your first post. Plus, you're not a mod, stop telling me that I can't post.

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