It was fun while it lasted for Jimmer...

[Mythrol]

I wouldn't give up on Jimmer this fast here. Think of how the game was going. We were behind and had to play starters more minutes than normal. We were trying to make a comeback and needed to try and stop Ellis.

As much as people like Jimmer lets be honest, he wasn't going to be stopping Ellis. So Monty went with the guards he trusts more to defend.

Let's just all chill with blowing stuff out of the water and see what happens in a month. Jimmer will get more time, gotta be patient.

[Asteptooslow]

It is.

[RaisingTheBar]

And this is exactly the double-standard we're talking about. Guys like Rivers and Gordon can play terrible on both sides of the ball and yet they get their minutes, come sunshine or rain. But, "Jimmer went 0-6 one game, BENCH HIM DAMMIT, HE SUCKS!". Or let's ignore the fact that Jimmer played pretty good D in game 1 (something everyone harps on being more important than his shooting), but suddenly his scoring is all that matters now.

Sorry but if Jimmer even had 1/5th of the career the injury plagued Gordon had then maybe that would be a fair comparison. Gordon earns the right to have a bad game and still get playing time because he's actually relevant in the NBA when healthy, as much as it pains me to say.

What some people can't understand is simple math. Our main 6 played combined 186 minutes game 1. Game 2 they played 213. Not to mention Holiday played just 27 minutes in game 1 and then 37 in game 2. I guess Monty is supposed to just make up imaginary minutes for bench guys our fans want to see.

[Asteptooslow]

You are right about earning the right for a bad shooting night, but we will need the bench when those same chronically injured players get hurt again. All I expect is a heat check each half. If Jimmer is doing well play him a few more minutes..If not take him out. Don't put a shooter in for 3.5 minutes and not have him do what he is supposed to be doing.

[Tomdda]

I think Jimmer's biggest problem is his character. His nice guy personality doesn't fit with the NBA bad boy image. I think a lot of people see him as a boy in a man's league, no matter how he plays. I'm not going to use the "R" word, because I think it's well beyond that. When the going gets tough, you put the tough guy in - it's basic human nature. Jimmer doesn't fit the tough guy mold so he sits on the bench while the "men" play.

I can just see Dell and Monty sitting in Dell's office in the offseason when Dell says to Coach, "I just got this letter from the Commissioner's office saying that we drew the short straw and have to put Jimmer Fredette on our roster this season so that we can carry out the NBA's conspiracy against him."
"Don't worry Double D," Monty replies, "I'll just do what Thibs did in Chicago and stick him on the end of the bench."

[RaisingTheBar]

You are right about earning the right for a bad shooting night, but we will need the bench when those same chronically injured players get hurt again. All I expect is a heat check each half. If Jimmer is doing well play him a few more minutes..If not take him out. Don't put a shooter in for 3.5 minutes and not have him do what he is supposed to be doing.

So you're saying Monty put him in the game and said you cannot shoot the ball, just stand around and do nothing? I have no reason why Jimmer only got 4 minutes in game 2, but I don't think he was benched (how can a bench player be benched?) and I don't think this is a trend. If he wasn't put in the game I'm assuming it was a matchup issue or something else that hasn't been explained. I find it very hard to believe that Jimmer is going to get 4 minutes per game moving forward. With or without injuries.

[Asteptooslow]

So you're saying Monty put him in the game and said you cannot shoot the ball, just stand around and do nothing? I have no reason why Jimmer only got 4 minutes in game 2, but I don't think he was benched (how can a bench player be benched?) and I don't think this is a trend. If he wasn't put in the game I'm assuming it was a matchup issue or something else that hasn't been explained. I find it very hard to believe that Jimmer is going to get 4 minutes per game moving forward. With or without injuries.

I'm saying as a coach. Jimmer is in the game...that guy is going to shoot. Hey, PG...give him the ball. Hey big guy picking and rolling set a great damn pick for him. That is what I'm rambling. I will allow for Happenstance.

[RaisingTheBar]

Sorry but I just cannot agree with that philosophy. Everything we are trying to accomplish as a team should not go out the windows as soon as Jimmer steps on the floor.

[Asteptooslow]

Same thing goes for Gordon.

[BP225]

I have no reason why Jimmer only got 4 minutes in game 2

I do, it's exactly what coach Gates said at half time on TV, they tried to get him to say something bad about AD/Asik because Dirk/Chandler hadn't been shut down and Gates reaction was "those 4 guys are talented and are going to do what they're going to do, our big problem is we can't keep their guards from penetrating." That's why Jimmer didn't get many minutes. Keeping guys out of the lane isn't one of his strengths and Dallas was killing us with penetration. But it's a conspiracy and Monty has given up on Jimmer already

[RaisingTheBar]

Same thing goes for Gordon.

Don't understand, and I'm usually on the anti-Gordon side of most arguments. Gordon played 34 minutes and shot the ball 6 times. If anything I thought he wasn't involved in the offense enough in the beginning and that's why he never got going.

[AD23nEG10]

Morrow never touched the floor the beginning of the season last year either...

[RaisingTheBar]

I do, it's exactly what coach Gates said at half time on TV, they tried to get him to say something bad about AD/Asik because Dirk/Chandler hadn't been shut down and Gates reaction was "those 4 guys are talented and are going to do what they're going to do, our big problem is we can't keep their guards from penetrating." That's why Jimmer didn't get many minutes. Keeping guys out of the lane isn't one of his strengths and Dallas was killing us with penetration. But it's a conspiracy and Monty has given up on Jimmer already

Well there you go. The reason I didn't have, but there will still be complaints. It's going to be a long *** season.....

[Asteptooslow]

That is what i'm saying. Idol shooters are not a good thing.

None of our guys were stopping penetration. That is his stigma. You overlook it deserved or not when it happens to other guys. I think he did about as good as the next guy. He has created a different microscope with his play. I've only seen like 3 games with the guys so what do I know.

[Pelicanned]

I do, it's exactly what coach Gates said at half time on TV, they tried to get him to say something bad about AD/Asik because Dirk/Chandler hadn't been shut down and Gates reaction was "those 4 guys are talented and are going to do what they're going to do, our big problem is we can't keep their guards from penetrating." That's why Jimmer didn't get many minutes. Keeping guys out of the lane isn't one of his strengths and Dallas was killing us with penetration. But it's a conspiracy and Monty has given up on Jimmer already

Except that Jimmer was doing an excellent job of keeping them out of the lane when he got in the game. The two shots scored on him were from mid-range and Jimmer had his hands in his face. The one time that Harris (or was it Ellis?) drove on him turned into a charge...

[Mythrol]

Same thing goes for Gordon.

One is our highest paid player. The other is lucky to be on a team. Anyone saying Monty NEEDS or MUST give Jimmer minutes in every game NEEDS to get their head out of the sand.

We already have a ton of shooters. We have a problem already trying to get enough shots for everyone. The last thing the Mavs game needed was another bad defensive shooter trying to guard Ellis.

Jimmer will get his minutes and if he actually shows up and does something in a game, he will get more. But please don't act like he has earned or deserves anything yet. He has to prove himself when given the chance, just like everyone else. What he did on another team in some other year is irrelevant.

There was literally 27 minutes in the last game for ANY backup position not in our top 6. Only 3 players got any of those minutes. Jimmer was one of time. What more do Jimmer fans want? Geez, just chill and let a few games pass by.

[RaisingTheBar]

There's no record of that charge happening http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?ga...78319&period=0

[Pelicanned]

Jimmer will get his minutes and if he actually shows up and does something in a game, he will get more. But please don't act like he has earned or deserves anything yet. He has to prove himself when given the chance, just like everyone else. What he did on another team in some other year is irrelevant.
.

Except that Jimmer has done plenty, at least defensively over the first 2 games. And he did plenty in preseason. So yes, he has earned it in "a game". It's Rivers and Gordon who hasn't done anything in a game yet.

[BP225]

Except that Jimmer was doing an excellent job of keeping them out of the lane when he got in the game

I've been impressed with Jimmer's ability to stay in front of guys considering his reputation, but Monty is big on trusting guys and Jimmer hasn't been here long enough to earn that trust. Someone else brought up Morrow, by the end of the season he had gone from bad on defense to good on team defense according to Monty. Jimmer doesn't have the size Morrow had, but as long as he learns the scheme and what he should do, I think he'll work his way into the rotation.

[Pelicanned]

There's no record of that charge happening http://espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?ga...78319&period=0

It was actually Barea. Look harder.

0:33 J.J. Barea offensive foul (Jimmer Fredette draws the foul) 30-26
0:33 J.J. Barea turnover

[N.O.Bronco]

I've beat this horse over and over and over again, trying to explain the bias toward him. How a guy like Marcus Thornton can play 30+ min a game for an entire season averaging 5 pts a night, or watch DJ Augustine and everyone else go cold 3 games in a row during the playoffs (when they desperately needed shooters), or, more recently, Gordon going in and shooting bricks...all to watch Jimmer sit on the bench. This isn't about stats or defense or anything else "on the court". There's really no way to argue for that based on the evidence.

I think Jimmer's biggest problem is his character. His nice guy personality doesn't fit with the NBA bad boy image. I think a lot of people see him as a boy in a man's league, no matter how he plays. I'm not going to use the "R" word, because I think it's well beyond that. When the going gets tough, you put the tough guy in - it's basic human nature. Jimmer doesn't fit the tough guy mold so he sits on the bench while the "men" play.

I mean every time there's a thread about Jimmer, you get the obligatory dorky dancing gif (queue...3...2...1...). That tells you a lot about how people see him.

I've been saying for a while that if Jimmer wants to stay in the league, he needs to drop the nice guy image. He needs to get a little more selfish in the game, talk a little more smack, and overall become more of a bad-***. I don't know if that's even possible with his Mormon faith, but I think it's necessary if he's to be taken seriously. I mean, it's not like other players of his faith haven't done it. Look at guys like Steve Young and Danny Ainge, and up-and-coming Jabari Parker. They all get tons of respect. And I think it's because they leave the pretty boy image outside the gym doorstep.

Yeah I can't understand how consensus nice guys like Tim Duncan and Kevin Durant just can't seem to find ways to get recognition in this league.... It's just such a shame. And I can't help but feel guys like Jeremy Lin who are devoutly religious just don't get a chance to get meaningful playing team anywhere.....oh wait.

[RaisingTheBar]

It was actually Barea. Look harder.

0:33 J.J. Barea offensive foul (Jimmer Fredette draws the foul) 30-26
0:33 J.J. Barea turnover

I looked for every charge in fact, and all of those look like this "Jrue Holiday offensive Charge (Monta Ellis draws the foul)". Nevertheless, any negative point made about Jimmer is irrelevant when it comes to certain people. So it doesn't matter what anyone says. I wish there was a group of people as passionate about Withey or something as there was Jimmer. Then these 2 groups could just argue themselves to death over the extra 4 minutes that was available.

[Pelicanned]

I looked for every charge in fact, and all of those look like this "Jrue Holiday offensive Charge (Monta Ellis draws the foul)"

Well I don't know why it isn't labeled as a charge. All I know is that Barea drove hard for a layup, Jimmer stayed in front the whole time and a whistle was blown on Barea. If that's not a charge, I don't know what is.

Jimmer did great on guys in the lane during preseason as well. I honestly think that's one of his strong points on defense, he's good one-on-one when someone is driving. I think his off the ball / team defense is where most criticism lies. That's what Monty has talked about, "lack of communication" and "missed assignments".

So yeah, that doesn't explain why he was pulled after 3 min if keeping guys out of the lane was the problem. Jimmer did great there.

[Pelicanned]

But honestly, who else was playing defense vs Dallas? Nobody. They were scoring at will all night. If nobody's playing defense, it's a bad coaching move to single someone out like that. That's how you tank someone's confidence, then you turn a one night problem into a mult-night problem because that player feels like he's walking on eggshells.

Give him some confidence by letting them play through mistakes. That's how it goes for Rivers and Gordon apparently. We're just asking for Jimmer to get the same treatment..

[RaisingTheBar]

Our starting back court played a combined 12 minutes more vs Mavs than they did against the Magic. With Rivers getting 18 minutes, you realize that you all are essentially complaining about ~3 minutes?