What the hell Jrue

[Perth_Hornet]

I believe Monty knows this problem with Jrue and he will push Jrue to attack more. I wish people still acting like midrange games are horrible because of this analytic hype. Players who have been winning championships Kobe, Dirk, Parker, Duncan, Wade, Pierce, Kg, and Jordan you know what all these players have in common they are all big time midrange shooters.

Don't forget Gasol (Pau), mid range money as good as anyone over the past 10 years.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Can people be clear on the arguments they are attacking? Too much to ask?

Nobody thinks mid-range shots in and of themselves are the devil. Mid-range shots combined with not attacking the basket and getting to the line and a relatively high turnover rate. ALL THOSE THINGS COMBINED, should concern people IMO.

Now, go after THAT argument. Not the one you heard. Just THAT argument.

[Mythrol]

I attempted to dig into this a bit.

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2014/10...-talent-wasted

To me it is not that he takes too many long twos. It is a trend over the course of four seasons that he has taken a greater share of long twos (not just "mid-range shots" classified as anything outside the paint, we're talking 16'+) each and every season while showing a similar decline in three point attempts.

There is something to be said for being less and less efficient in his choices and yet maintaining roughly the same efficiency in results. Each year for four years Holiday has taken more long twos and fewer threes AND free throws.

Open shots remain more efficient options (even the dreaded long twos) than well-defended shots. SportVU will continue to pump out more data which (at this time) appears to support this conclusion. There is room for Jrue to improve, however. Rather than focus the discussion on attacking the basket more often (which is well and good) to me where he could better apply assert himself is simply to be willing and able to catch and shoot behind the arc more. While he is more than willing to take a mostly open 18 footer on the pick and roll he appears hesitant to put it up when presented a similarly open three; preferring to dribble out and reset. Fire away please.

I understand this and agree with it in principle, I'm just curious about one thing. The point I highlighted. Is that based off of your eye test or did you get that info from somewhere else?

For those interested, after 1 game Jrue is actually taking a career high number of 3pt attempts, and a career low number of 16+ jumpers. Just goes to show people have narratives because the first game should have ENCORAGED people instead of concerned them.

Let's also be clear, Jrue posted his highest PER, TRB%, AST %, STL %, BLK %, and his 2nd lowest TOV% of his entire career last year. So it's not all doom and gloom.

[MichaelMcNamara]

"So its not all doom and gloom"

These are the kinds of statements that start unnecessary arguments. Find me one poster who said it was.

This is hyperbole or a Strawman argument. Just because somebody has some concerns does not mean they believe it is "all doom and gloom"

Argue what people say or type, not the position that you think is easier to attack. We can have better debates that way.

[Mythrol]

"So its not all doom and gloom"

These are the kinds of statements that start unnecessary arguments. Find me one poster who said it was.

This is hyperbole or a Strawman argument. Just because somebody has some concerns does not mean they believe it is "all doom and gloom"

Argue what people say or type, not the position that you think is easier to attack. We can have better debates that way.

I had over a 100 word post and you chose to focus on 7 words. Did those 7 words somehow invalid my other 104 words written?

I've tried to be very respectful of you MM. But every post I make it feels like you try to say I hide behind "straw man" arguments yet YOU IGNORE MY POINTS.

I at least try to address yours. You simply try to control the argument by trying to invalidate me using some perceived "straw man" whatever that means. That's DT style arguing. And much below you to do.

Take this post for instance. I wasn't even talking to you, I quoted someone else, and you chimed in not about my actual points but to talk about 7 words I wrote in jest. I'm sure next you will claim you are being attacked or something.

Spend less time worrying about your straw man and more time looking at the numbers I post.

[Perth_Hornet]

No one is talking to you MM, go sit in the corner.

There will be no arguing with MM, he gets dem 'superstar calls' on this board.

[David Fisher]

I understand this and agree with it in principle, I'm just curious about one thing. The point I highlighted. Is that based off of your eye test or did you get that info from somewhere else?

For those interested, after 1 game Jrue is actually taking a career high number of 3pt attempts, and a career low number of 16+ jumpers. Just goes to show people have narratives because the first game should have ENCORAGED people instead of concerned them.

Let's also be clear, Jrue posted his highest PER, TRB%, AST %, STL %, BLK %, and his 2nd lowest TOV% of his entire career last year. So it's not all doom and gloom.

Most definitely based on the eye test, which is unreliable in my estimation. I cannot think of a way any statistical model right now can track open shot opportunities not taken.

It is my observation that a couple of times a game Jrue passes up a look to reset instead. The look isn't WIDE OPEN but its open enough from my perspective.

I agree with you on his general improvement statistically. It is honestly impressive that his shooting efficiency has maintained despite his shot selection over time.

[SeaLegs]

You simply try to control the argument by trying to invalidate me using some perceived "straw man" whatever that means. That's DT style arguing. And much below you to do.

I think MM thought that part of your post was directed at him and was using your quote as an example of the at times hyperbolic representations of his argument on this board. Misunderstanding mostly, but there are a few examples of straw man arguments sprinkled around this thread.

[SilkySlim]

"So its not all doom and gloom"

These are the kinds of statements that start unnecessary arguments. Find me one poster who said it was.

This is hyperbole or a Strawman argument. Just because somebody has some concerns does not mean they believe it is "all doom and gloom"

Argue what people say or type, not the position that you think is easier to attack. We can have better debates that way.

Yeah and passive aggressive posts towards posters you dont even respect enough to quote is supposed to be helpful to having debates?

If you have a problem with a post why dont you do what everyone else does and quote the post and point out what you disagree with, if you actually want to have good debates and all.

[Mythrol]

Yeah and passive aggressive posts towards posters you dont even respect enough to quote is supposed to be helpful to having debates?

If you have a problem with a post why dont you do what everyone else does and quote the post and point out what you disagree with, if you actually want to have good debates and all.

I appreciate the post. The truth is MM and I have a love hate relationship. We agree hard and argue hard. I'm not sure which one of us is the battered wife though.

[Rakac Temha]

Hey, stop hating on Jrue. This guy is all star material. He is the least to worry about on this team. He will do good.

[Jabberwalker]

Hey, stop hating on Jrue. This guy is all star material. He is the least to worry about on this team. He will do good.

K

[Writhe]

http://gfycat.com/PreciousHomelyEland

Noel > Jrue

[Mythrol]

http://gfycat.com/PreciousHomelyEland

Noel > Jrue

But we would have drafted a pg.

[RENFO]

Maybe this has a lot to do with the 76ers system he was in which was a heavy mid range offensive scheme but the mid range shot is the worst shot in basketball.

Guru, this is a very inaccurate statement. Somewhere in this SportsCenter, Fantasy League, Video game, Betting/Numbers driven society, there's this illusion among fans that 3 pointers are all the rave and nothing in the sport of basketball matters. On the contrary, the mid-range shot is the key to any successful offensive player. Why? Because one can't always get all the way to the cup and the 3-ball, when not used wisely becomes fool's gold. Yes, a shot beyond the arc is worth three points, but only if you make it. Otherwise, it counts for zero. The percentages are much better shooting a mid-range shot. The key is to score, so a high percentage/mid-range shot could never be a bad or 'worst shot' option.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Ironically, I played the game on 2K today, and the Mavs killed me with the mid-range game. Dirk and Ellis never miss!

[JrueDat]

Hey, stop hating on Jrue. This guy is all star material. He is the least to worry about on this team. He will do good.

As anyone can tell by my name I like Jrue but he doesn't need you protecting him, you are the worst poster this board has ever seen, including itsrynotime...

[IamQuailman]

Bump