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Jrue has always been very good at driving to the basket but throughout his career he has always preferred his mid range shot instead. Maybe this has a lot to do with the 76ers system he was in which was a heavy mid range offensive scheme but the mid range shot is the worst shot in basketball.
Jrue is great at attacking the rim and shooting 3's, wish he would do that more often.
The only thing I hope to see more with Jrue is last play making and more of him looking to score.
1-6
Jrue took 2% more of his shots from 16ft out than AD did last year and that was his highest % ever. He hit those shots at over 5% of a better rate than AD did. His career average attempts from 16-3pt is actually LOWER than ADs career average attempts. I expect you to nail AD to the cross as well for his mid range jumper shots too if you are going to say Jrue took "far too many".Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
Let's compare him to the best PG in the league CP3. Oh look CP3 has AVERAGED more 16ft and out shots than Jrue even in his highest season ever took. Well certainly it must be because CP3 is so much better from that range. CP3 last year 44% from 16ft-3pt. Jrue 42.4%.
Our whole world is destroyed!
Yeah there's far too much overreacting to one game. Jrue is a solid player and that means you expect more, but it's unfair to ignore the fact he just missed the majority of a season.
I feel like Jrue will be a narrative this year. His stats will suffer due to the system but we win. He'll need to grow to flourish but that still may not reflect in his stats. What's funny is that he could learn a lot by playing more like his nemesis Patrick Beverly.
.......if healthy
@Jabberwalker
I just looked at the shot chart and frankly he only took 3 mid range shots, not long 2's either. Went 1-3. He took 3 3-pointers and the other 5 were shots around the basket.
As long as those 3 mid-rangers are ones where he is coming off a screen to an open look or is wide open, I am ok with that. Am I wrong for thinking that?
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 10-30-2014 at 05:53 PM.
No. You're not wrong. Some people build up narratives and then try to stick to that even in the face of facts. Can't let a little truth mess up their agenda.
It's a sad time when I actually agree with DT on basically anything.
I think the long 2 has a bad stigma to it. I know mathematical it's better to take a few steps back for the 3. However I think there's more to it. First being able to sink long 2's at a respectable clip means defenders have to stay close. Secondly comfort has a lot to do with shooting success. A lot of times a few feet can make a huge difference in a players comfort level.
I think analytics are great and important to the advancement of the game but sometimes numbers just don't tell the whole story.
Watching Monty install plays at the open practice pretty much EVERYTHING was Layups or 3's.
Once the scrimmage began, TONS of long 2's... Had to take what the defense was offering I guess.
Jrue will be fine he had his up's and down's in Philly and he's only at "80%" right now. I'm not worried.... yet.
EDIT: FYI TL;DR
We are 1-0 now. Everything is good. The bad things will likely be fixed according to most. When you see the glass as half full, you can sweep any worries under the rug and justify anything that isn't ideal.
Then, a few games are lost and people overreact the other way, and these same guys will be called bums.
I would rather stay in the middle. Because I am not praising Jrue and saying everything will be fine, I am bashing him I suppose. But the truth is that he has never been an efficient offensive player. Yeah, he takes a similar number of mid-range shots as CP3, but you know what else CP3 does? He gets to the FT line. At twice the rate over his career. A big reason why he is a career .575 TS% and Holiday is .507. That is a HUGE difference.
So, its fine. All is great right now. Pump up the good and assume the bad will be fixed. The opposite will be happening when this team loses a few games. I have seen it all before. But if we remove our fandom and try to be objective, I don't see how a person can have zero concerns about Holiday. Zero concerns about AD? Sure. But Holiday? Sorry, I can't see it.
@mcnamara247
I realize this might derail the topic, but that statement just isn't true. Superstars are held responsible (fair or not) for the success or failure of their teams as has been proven again and again with LeBron, Love, CP3, Melo ect... He will get a few years of leeway and then the expectation of championships or at least deep playoff runs will be squarely on his shoulders
I disagree. Not all the time at least. And not when the superstar is THIS good. Who got all the blame last year? Lebron or Wade and Bosh?
Same in OKC. Outside of that one newspaper headline, Durant is bulletproof. Harden got blasted for their Finals loss. Westbrook ever since.
I believe Monty knows this problem with Jrue and he will push Jrue to attack more. I wish people still acting like midrange games are horrible because of this analytic hype. Players who have been winning championships Kobe, Dirk, Parker, Duncan, Wade, Pierce, Kg, and Jordan you know what all these players have in common they are all big time midrange shooters.
Last edited by 504ByrdGang; 10-30-2014 at 06:55 PM.
In our case it'd be Monty's fault.
You want to mention other problems with Jrue's actual game, That's fine. But that wasn't how you started. You tried to narrow in on him taking too many mid range jumpers and tried to say he was always like that even in Philly. I showed you the actual facts. He takes a lower % of mid range jumpers than AD over his career. He shoots them 5% better than AD. He has a lower mid range attempt % than CP3. He shoots within 2% of CP3 from mid range.
TS%, FT rate, all of that is irrelevant because we aren't discussing "CP3 vs Jrue - who is the better PG?". YOU chose to narrow in on mid range jumpers as the reason why you are worried about Jrue at this moment and tried to say we ALL should have some concern because of mid ranged jumpers.
Do I want Jrue to play like an All-Star? Absolutely. Do I see problems with his game? Absolutely. But if I am choosing what I see wrong with it, it certainly isn't his amount of jumpers he is taking. And with him being open and saying he isn't fully healthy what are we suppose to do? Sit back and wait and see in a couple of months. Which is what I've been saying from the beginning.
You are a smart man that knows his stuff. You shouldn't use DT style tactics in creating these narratives about players.
I said he was inefficient.
And yes, I did say he shot too many jumpers. Should have pointed out the lack of FT's too, but I thought that was implied with the lack of efficiency overall. But you are right, I will lay it all out every time from now on so others do not use Strawman arguments against me. Because I know that is my fault.
So let me be as clear as possible - His lack of efficiency because of mid-range shots combined with the lack of ability to get to the free throw line and him not being able to get into the flow because Tyreke and Gordon take more possessions away from him than other wing players would on most teams has me a little bit worried.
Not jump off a cliff worried, but I can't say that I have no worries about Jrue. I can say that about AD. And I am closer to saying that about Asik and Tyreke than Jrue. Thats as specific as I can get. Hope I am understood now.
This is an old narrative with Jrue, we've said since we got him that his biggest flaw was not being aggressive enough on offense and all that that encompasses.
So it's taken 40 posts in this thread for you to basically say, "I have the same concerns as I always have had about Jrue". Ok great. We all do.
But am I somehow concerned about that after one game? No. We KNEW what we were getting with him and on top of that he is still not 100%. Which is why I said I am not concerned as of now. Will there come a time when I am? Yes. But not game 1 after 8 months of recovery.
But I guess that must be my straw man logic coming out.
It only Jrue shot less jumpers like AD! If only we had Drummond instead of Davis!
Edit: I've been thinking about this topic and what I've come up with is there is a disconnect with the word "concern". I think we are both using it in a different way.
Concern to me implies a serious issue that needs correcting. I am concerned about my diabetes, someone might say. Personally I am not concerned about Jrue. I think how you meant it is, "there are areas I'd like him to improve" and I totally agree with that.
I'd be concerned with Jrue if he lost his ability to be an "elite" defender and if he spot up shooting fell sharply. What it seems you are more talking about is Jrue needs to develop more of an attacking play style.
Last edited by Mythrol; 10-30-2014 at 07:50 PM.
Contributor
I'd just like for Jrue to be his usual self on D and smarter on O. I feel bad for him because the clumsiness that is Him, Gordon, and Evans seems like it could be rectified by Jrue's seemingly higher versatility, relatively speaking. The problem with that assumption is that it puts a hell of a lot of weight on his shoulders to basically be a chameleon every game. That's a tough role for a player like Jrue, when you really think about it
some people just have to find something to complain about!! OMG ONE GAME GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!!
LMAO people's expectations are crazy
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This fits HunnyB/FlyGirl so well- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyzTiSEfM00
On the whole would we day Jrue is low or high bbiq?
I attempted to dig into this a bit.
http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2014/10...-talent-wasted
To me it is not that he takes too many long twos. It is a trend over the course of four seasons that he has taken a greater share of long twos (not just "mid-range shots" classified as anything outside the paint, we're talking 16'+) each and every season while showing a similar decline in three point attempts.
There is something to be said for being less and less efficient in his choices and yet maintaining roughly the same efficiency in results. Each year for four years Holiday has taken more long twos and fewer threes AND free throws.
Open shots remain more efficient options (even the dreaded long twos) than well-defended shots. SportVU will continue to pump out more data which (at this time) appears to support this conclusion. There is room for Jrue to improve, however. Rather than focus the discussion on attacking the basket more often (which is well and good) to me where he could better apply assert himself is simply to be willing and able to catch and shoot behind the arc more. While he is more than willing to take a mostly open 18 footer on the pick and roll he appears hesitant to put it up when presented a similarly open three; preferring to dribble out and reset. Fire away please.
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If we are going to have any long term success this season Jrue is going to have to learn to catch and shoot the three.
It will be monumentally regressive if Evans breaks down the defense only to kick out to an open Jrue with 14 second left on the shot clock only to see him pass up the shot.
Frankly I think he will adjust. He's shown me the flexibility to adjust his role to team needs. In Philly he played off ball when they asked him and then became a shoot first PG when the need came up and then was in the process of shifting his game to a more passive distributor role last season. Changing so much that Monty wanted him to be more aggressive.
This all coming from one of the most vocal critics of the Jrue trade.
But that's been the story of his career from the offensive side of the ball. Bad decisions, poor-shot selection, and turnovers have always kept him from reaching his potential. He's still young and should improve as he matures, but this team needs him to do it sooner than later .
Emeka Okafor - Joe Smith - Carmelo Anthony - Manu Ginobili - Jason Williams
Al Jefferson - James Posey - Aaron McKie - Shaun Livingston
If you aren't Omer Asik or Dwight Howard and you can't hit a wide open three you don't deserve to be in the NBA.
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