The jock strap thing was a joke...trying to lighten the mood. Didn't work.Originally Posted by NOLA NBA
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The jock strap thing was a joke...trying to lighten the mood. Didn't work.
His defense is average, nothing special. For a player that is so bad on offense, his defense NEEDS to be much better.
He has average handles/quickness for an NBA guard. This is not college, this this the NBA his quickness is nothing special at all.
He is an average 3 ball shooter, to make up for the rest of his ineptitude he NEEDS to shoot much better from 3
All this equates to NOTHING SPECIAL and in my opinion not much of a future or upside.
If you think he is above average or better in these categories, why does he suck so bad?
To me he hasn't done anything for me to say that he is a great defender, he has great handles/quickness and he is a great 3 point shooter. Average at all 3 yes, good to great NOT.
If he is so wonderful how did he have the worst NBA season in NBA history?
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Didn't say any of that, just trying to assess what you think of those areas of his game.
You keep saying this but this whole time we are talking about his soph more year numbers, at least I was, those were not the worst NBA season in NBA history were they? We have already acknowledged that his rookie year was crap and someone after him had a worse crap year. So I really don't see the need to keep bringing up pointless information but if you need to make yourself feel better about your argument that's fine.
I think at the worst his defense is average. Probably slightly better. I can't point out specific games from memory, but I've watched him play good team defense and on ball defense. Unless we start showing film or screenshots (which I don't like Rivers enough to waste my time with) there's no way to really prove this so this is just a matter of opinion.
I think he's above average at getting to the rim. His issue, which is well known and no one argues against, is finishing at the rim. He can consistently get there but can't score. If that can be improved, his offense output increases tremendously.
He's an average 3 ball shooter, OK I'll give you that. For our team I think his % is pretty darn good. Think about it, we have Ryno, now Jimmer, Gordon, Holiday, heck even Babbitt can shoot better from down town. So for THIS TEAM I don't think Rivers needs to be elite from 3, so long as most of those guys can stay healthy.
If we are talking about starter material then yes he is nothing special and has no future or upside there. But as a backup I think he has enough potential to be a solid rotation guy in this league. It may not be with us, but he will not be out the league after his rookie deal is up.
Completely agree, he will bounce around from team to team filling out rosters with glaring needs. A big disappointment for the 10th overall pick.
I don't understand how getting to the rim is a good attribute for him due to the fact that he cannot finish and he cannot shoot free throws. Given that combination i would rather he never even try to get to the rim. I doubt either will be improved enough to where is ability to get to the rim becomes a strength of his game. He was a terrible finisher even in college.
As to his rookie year you cannot ignore it. I'm looking at the whole body of work. I do not think just because he improved from the very bottom doesn't mean he's not capable of going back down there again. You think its pointless to look at his rookie performance, i think it's pointless to only look at his second year. Let's look at the numbers combined. Let's look at the whole body of work. To me its far from pointless, it was real, it happened. He actually put up those putrid numbers and his improvement was not substantial.
Rivers finished at the rim better than Lillard last year. Does that mean Lillard is the worst finisher in the history of the game? By the logic in this thread yes.
Are we really comparing Rivers to Lillard. I don't think it's even remotely possible for Austin Rivers to become 50% of Lillard.
Really? Does this even merit a response? Obviously Lillard brings other elements to the table that Rivers can only dream about so him finishing at the rim is not a strength of his game or something he needs to be successful. Wow.
How much better would rivers be if he improved his FT percentage to 80%? I think he'd easily average 10-12ppg if he improved FT shooting.
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A rotation player with the tenth pick is about what you should expect. Really, any player selected 7~12 should be in a rotation by their final rookie year.
Rivers has been a big disappointment. I do think he will be much better this year. I do think we can trade him and I think we're going to trade him or Gordon especially if Jimmer and Russ show up on the court.
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Dell Demps is smarter than any guy on this forum. I'm pretty sure about this. So, if Demps wants to move Rivers or Gordon he will do it at the right time and it will be a smart move and he knows what he's doing. His biggest mistake was signing Gordon. Other than that I'm very impressed with him.
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It is a disappointment, never said it wasn't. But there have been a lot of disappointments in the NBA. IIRC I was was of the few on here who was actually upset with the pick when we drafted him.
Getting to the rim is a great attribute man come on. There aren't that many people who can go there whenever they want and I honestly believe Rivers is on that path. Using glass, or gaining strength to be able to absorb blows I don't know what it is that needs to be done but I think his finishing can be improved.
I'm not saying to ignore his rookie year. I've already said it was crap. I never said it's pointless to not look at his rookie performance. This is what you said "If he is so wonderful how did he have the worst NBA season in NBA history?" The whole I have been discussing how I feel he has performed and what he's good or bad at his soph year because he showed improvement that year. So I said it's pointless to keep bringing up his rookie year when we (or at least I thought) were wayyy past that.
Why harp on Rivers rookie campaign? He was horrible. He obviously wasn't ready for the NBA after one year in college and was forced into playing major minutes due to injury. The question is what kind of player is he now and what can he be going forward? Last year I thought he did some things pretty well and still struggled with others. By far his biggest problem in my eyes is his FT %. He gets fouled at a fairly high rate going to the basket. If he was a standard issue FT shooter at guard (80+%), I think he'd clearly be a rotation player. If he can't do that, it's a problem. Thought his defense was above average and his length bothered smaller guards. His spot up three pointer was okay and his normally atrocious mid-range game showed signs of life in a small sample size at the end of the season. That's it. It's also worth remembering that this would be his senior year at Duke and just turned 22. We'll see...
Probably, but when you have been playing basketball your entire life the odds of doing that are slim to none.
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I think this is something we can all agree word for word on.
I completely do not agree, he had no choice but to sign Gordon. I think this year will change the minds of alot of people on this. His worse move was clearly drafting Austin Rivers at 10. Other than that i'm very impressed with him.
But thats not a small mistake. That was HUGE, and you can argue effected so many other moves afterwards because he was working with far less resources than if he let Gordon leave or do a sign and trade.
I am a fan of Demps and thinks he did more good than bad, but saying "the only mistake was Gordon" is like saying Captain Edward Smith's only mistake was crashing the Titanic into an iceberg. Kind of a big deal, even if his other 50 voyages all went well.
@mcnamara247
Way to ignore the facts. I never said rivers was better than Lillard. But he does finish better. This isn't arguable. He is also better on defense. This isn't arguable.
My point however was to show how illogical you were being because I can point to just as many stats as you that really mean nothing.
Has Jimmer made his way into this thread?
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
As opposed to someone out of Meyers, Henson, and Lamb? The only one of those getting playing time is Henson. Lamb can't even stay out of the D-League on a team desperate for production from his position.
Seriously, look at all the garbage after the Drummond pick.
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If that's Demps' worst move then he wins the GM of the decade award.
Yep. There was nobody taken after Rivers that year that I would bet my life has a better career than Rivers, even after two years of retrospect. A couple of guys have been slightly better, but its not like there is or was some no brainer guy at 10 that year. No matter who we picked, we would be complaining about them and wishing we got Drummond one pick earlier.
That was not a make or break decision. The Gordon decision was HUGE, and the argument that he had no other choice is simply false.
As Cam Newton once said "Hindsight is 50/50."
The Rivers pick was bad, and the players taken after him were bad, so it's not like we could have picked a better option at pg/sg.
The guys that stand out from that 2012 NBA draft post Rivers are
Terrance Jones
Jared Sullinger
Andrew Nichols
Tony Wroten
Miles Plumlee
Jae Crowder
Draymond Green
Quincy Acy
Khris Middelton
All have had more success than Rivers, but what we were going for with that #10 pick isn't what any of those guys were.
I would kill for half of those guys over Rivers, but there was little chance we would have taken any of them.
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 10-14-2014 at 02:46 PM.
I agreed with taking the risky decision on extending Gordon but it clearly didn't work out and that makes me a sad Pelican. Hopefully, he will play up to the remaining value of his contract and we will get something good when it ends. Whether that is a new solid starter on the wing, or just a renewed Eric with no future injury issues on a modest contract.
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