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Thread: Top 10 Players (any position) for 2014-15

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr View Post
    ???
    Please elaborate on "other great rebounders".
    Varejao and LeBron.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by saintsinNO View Post
    This list is a complete joke. Too far past reasonable to even argue with.
    Then why even bother at all. It seems by your standards you just wasted your time even posting this.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Then why even bother at all. It seems by your standards you just wasted your time even posting this.
    Can't help but get my time wasted. You post and I obviously see it. It's pretty clear you post things to incite some sort of reaction from people, as it appears nearly impossible to actually support (with any evidence) your positions. Skip Bayless of the message boards.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    You mean the guy that was 3rd in MVP voting???
    So is your whole list based on last years MVP voting?
    CAW CAW!!!

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  5. #30
    Pass-First Point Center Caffeinedisastr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Varejao and LeBron.
    Ah. Varejao's a pretty good rebounder.
    I believe Lebron's going to average fewer rebounds this season, most likely from the weight loss.
    No more power forward for him. Strictly a 3.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by saintsinNO View Post
    Can't help but get my time wasted. You post and I obviously see it. It's pretty clear you post things to incite some sort of reaction from people, as it appears nearly impossible to actually support (with any evidence) your positions. Skip Bayless of the message boards.
    Pretty clear as in it's your opinion. I could say the same about people who ranked Davis 2nd. It's all a matter of opinions, but to come in here and act like your opinion is so much greater than the next persons' is the only thing that lowers the quality of this board.

    Not one person here presented any "evidence" yet you had nothing to say to anybody else. If you don't want to see my post there are ways around it. Do yourself a favor and explore those options so you don't have to subject yourself to being drawn into wasting your time.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverfoxx View Post
    So is your whole list based on last years MVP voting?
    No, but how could you possible suggest ranking Griffin 3rd is something that's a laughable idea?

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr View Post
    Ah. Varejao's a pretty good rebounder.
    I believe Lebron's going to average fewer rebounds this season, most likely from the weight loss.
    No more power forward for him. Strictly a 3.
    If anything the problem is Varejao can't stay healthy. Here's he's rebounding average for the last 4 years(he doesn't play much in all 4 years)
    2010 9.7
    2011 11.5
    2012 14.4
    2013 9.7

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Pretty clear as in it's your opinion. I could say the same about people who ranked Davis 2nd. It's all a matter of opinions, but to come in here and act like your opinion is so much greater than the next persons' is the only thing that lowers the quality of this board.

    Not one person here presented any "evidence" yet you had nothing to say to anybody else. If you don't want to see my post there are ways around it. Do yourself a favor and explore those options so you don't have to subject yourself to being drawn into wasting your time.
    Your posts draw the reaction I am referring to far more than anyone else on this board. Message board Skip Bayless, period. No other rationale to spew out the nonsense you do. Ibaka, Wade, Bryant, and Drummond, to name a few, over Davis?? Davis is the 22nd best player in the league?? Yeah, ok. What's your basis? Numbers?-that doesn't work. Last year?-that doesn't work. Popularity?-obviously not. You like to insight emotion with your ignorance. Show me where any of those above are better than Davis in any facet (minus Drummond for rebounding) with any evidence in the past two years? I'll wait.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Yeah as you can see he doesn't make my top 25 list. Good offense is offset by bad defense. You have to be elite offensively like Harden and Love to get by on offense alone.
    What about bad offense and bad defense (Drummond?)

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    What about bad offense and bad defense (Drummond?)
    You are entitled to your opinion if you think Drummond is bad at offense and defense.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by saintsinNO View Post
    Your posts draw the reaction I am referring to far more than anyone else on this board. Message board Skip Bayless, period. No other rationale to spew out the nonsense you do. Ibaka, Wade, Bryant, and Drummond, to name a few, over Davis?? Davis is the 22nd best player in the league?? Yeah, ok. What's your basis? Numbers?-that doesn't work. Last year?-that doesn't work. Popularity?-obviously not. You like to insight emotion with your ignorance. Show me where any of those above are better than Davis in any facet (minus Drummond for rebounding) with any evidence in the past two years? I'll wait.
    That doesn't change the fact that nobody else explained there list when they gave it. I have given plenty reason why I don't think Davis is a top 15 player. Lets not act like this is day one.

    Ibaka for example is either just as good or better than Davis at every facet of the game outside of touch around the basket. His only flaw is he has always had at least two better offensives players than him. Wade and Bryant are on top 30 all-time list. Wade will see a bump in usage with James leaving. The only question with those two guys are health. Drummond will more than likely for the first time have the team built around him. I think Andre will see the largest increase in usage and production from last year to the next year.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    That doesn't change the fact that nobody else explained there list when they gave it. I have given plenty reason why I don't think Davis is a top 15 player. Lets not act like this is day one.

    Ibaka for example is either just as good or better than Davis at every facet of the game outside of touch around the basket. His only flaw is he has always had at least two better offensives players than him. Wade and Bryant are on top 30 all-time list. Wade will see a bump in usage with James leaving. The only question with those two guys are health. Drummond will more than likely for the first time have the team built around him. I think Andre will see the largest increase in usage and production from last year to the next year.
    For Ibaka, numbers ALL state differently. As does the eye-test. Bryant hasn't played in two years. Wade has been extremely limited and, even when he has played, isn't a top player anymore worthy in any way of being over Davis. Drummond only has better rebounding numbers.

    I tell you what, since you talk in circles and always try and dance around your bs...put your money where your mouth is. You and I can pick a group of relevant statistical categories (say seven or so) and if Davis out performs in a majority (4/7 or higher) then I win. None of these guys will do that. NONE. Maybe scoring with Wade and Bryant and rebounding only with Drummond, and those are all "maybes." If you truly believe this crap then put money up. Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, minutes played, PER, and win shares.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    For me I factored in production. Love IMO will see a huge "Bosh-like" dipped in production as he drops to perhaps the third option on offense and joins a team with other great rebounders. As for Anthony I struggled to rank him. Great offense still, but wavers on defense and he couldn't get the Knicks to the playoffs in an all time down year for the Eastern conference.
    Being a bad defender is the most overused statement next to elite around here. Defense first and foremost is a team effort. Secondly, until the person defending Melo or Love gives you in return what Love and Melo give you on offense, that's not a wash. Thirdly, rebounding is playing defense. Love is a rebounding machine. As far as the Knicks are concerned, nobody above Melo on your list (with the exception of LBJ and maybe Durant) would've done any better on that team.
    The most overused words on Pelicansreport.com. Wrongly, I might add.

    ELITE - (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.

    GREAT - notable; remarkable; exceptionally outstanding

    These words should not be used lightly

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion if you think Drummond is bad at offense and defense.
    Is it an opinion that Drummond allowed opponents to shoot over 52% at the rim against him? Or the fact that Detroit was better by about 4 points/100 possessions defensively when Drummond sat? How about that he gave up .88 PPP good for 190th in the league, or allowed opponents to shoot 45% against him in the PnR.

    How about that he gives up positioning in the post too easily? Here is Dwight working him in the post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkBDnFqKDcc

    Or that he doesn't recognize when to help on defense and is often sticking to his man like Cody Zeller (complete non threat) on the three point line?

    But enough defense. Lets talk about his offense. How he only attempted 6 shots outside the paint. Or how Outside of 3 feet, his shooting percentage drops to 30%. Or how he shoots 40% from the free throw line. How about he has no semblance of an offensive game outside the pick and roll or offensive rebounds? Or the fact that he got 81% percent of his shots at the rim, IDENTICAL to his rookie year. Or that he only scored .9 more points per 100 possessions this year compared to his rookie year.

    These aren't opinions, these are cold hard facts. I understand you love being contrarian, but sometimes you're plain wrong.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    Is it an opinion that Drummond allowed opponents to shoot over 52% at the rim against him? Or the fact that Detroit was better by about 4 points/100 possessions defensively when Drummond sat? How about that he gave up .88 PPP good for 190th in the league, or allowed opponents to shoot 45% against him in the PnR.

    How about that he gives up positioning in the post too easily? Here is Dwight working him in the post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkBDnFqKDcc

    Or that he doesn't recognize when to help on defense and is often sticking to his man like Cody Zeller (complete non threat) on the three point line?

    But enough defense. Lets talk about his offense. How he only attempted 6 shots outside the paint. Or how Outside of 3 feet, his shooting percentage drops to 30%. Or how he shoots 40% from the free throw line. How about he has no semblance of an offensive game outside the pick and roll or offensive rebounds? Or the fact that he got 81% percent of his shots at the rim, IDENTICAL to his rookie year. Or that he only scored .9 more points per 100 possessions this year compared to his rookie year.

    These aren't opinions, these are cold hard facts. I understand you love being contrarian, but sometimes you're plain wrong.
    He bases his positioning for Drummond off of what he thinks he may develop into this year (future conjecture). He bases his position for others on intangibles (Ibaka and Leonard). He bases his position on Wade and Bryant on what their legacy is (not currently relevant for this list). Some are based on stats and popularity (Griffin). YET, despite the fact that AD is 21 years old, already has some of the best stats in the game, is widely regarded as one of the better players in the game, he still has him at 22 behind the likes of some obviously inferior players. He relies on things to support his opinions and then turns and renounces them to always disrespect AD. He isn't consistent in what he relies on. It's a joke. It is to get a rise out of people. Skip Bayless of the message board, plain and simple.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    Is it an opinion that Drummond allowed opponents to shoot over 52% at the rim against him? Or the fact that Detroit was better by about 4 points/100 possessions defensively when Drummond sat? How about that he gave up .88 PPP good for 190th in the league, or allowed opponents to shoot 45% against him in the PnR.

    How about that he gives up positioning in the post too easily? Here is Dwight working him in the post: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkBDnFqKDcc

    Or that he doesn't recognize when to help on defense and is often sticking to his man like Cody Zeller (complete non threat) on the three point line?

    But enough defense. Lets talk about his offense. How he only attempted 6 shots outside the paint. Or how Outside of 3 feet, his shooting percentage drops to 30%. Or how he shoots 40% from the free throw line. How about he has no semblance of an offensive game outside the pick and roll or offensive rebounds? Or the fact that he got 81% percent of his shots at the rim, IDENTICAL to his rookie year. Or that he only scored .9 more points per 100 possessions this year compared to his rookie year.

    These aren't opinions, these are cold hard facts. I understand you love being contrarian, but sometimes you're plain wrong.
    I don't place as much weight in stats raw or advance. This has been my stance for a very long time. Stats are so miss leading and depends on so many different moving parts outside of one players control that it's not the end all be all for me. Again if stats are the end all be all for you that's is your opinion and I never once said you should base your opinions and/or list based off of anything else.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    1. LeBron
    2. Durant
    3. Griffin
    4. Paul
    5. Westbrook
    6. Leonard
    7. Howard
    8. Curry
    9. Harden
    10. Aldridge
    11. Bosh
    12. Love
    13. Anthony
    14. Rose
    15. Cousins
    16. Ibaka
    17. Nowitzki
    18. Drummond
    19. Parker
    20. Wade
    21. Bryant
    22. Davis
    23. Noah
    24. Duncan
    25. M. Gasol
    The fact you put people like Ibaka and Drummond etc. in front of davis makes me want to punch you in the face, sorry.

  19. #44
    Can't you just accept defeat, your stupid prediction that Davis is going to be a bust was wrong.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I don't place as much weight in stats raw or advance. This has been my stance for a very long time. Stats are so miss leading and depends on so many different moving parts outside of one players control that it's not the end all be all for me. Again if stats are the end all be all for you that's is your opinion and I never once said you should base your opinions and/or list based off of anything else.
    Okay then, disprove my statements about him struggling to find positioning in the paint or not being good on rotations. Or that he has no functional offensive game outside pick and rolls or offensive rebounds. Those are all statements based on film to supplement stats.

  21. #46
    Would it really bother all of you that much if one guy came on here and kept saying 'The sky is yellow"?

    If not, then why do you guys let this one poster bother you? I don't get it.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by saintsinNO View Post
    For Ibaka, numbers ALL state differently. As does the eye-test. Bryant hasn't played in two years. Wade has been extremely limited and, even when he has played, isn't a top player anymore worthy in any way of being over Davis. Drummond only has better rebounding numbers.

    I tell you what, since you talk in circles and always try and dance around your bs...put your money where your mouth is. You and I can pick a group of relevant statistical categories (say seven or so) and if Davis out performs in a majority (4/7 or higher) then I win. None of these guys will do that. NONE. Maybe scoring with Wade and Bryant and rebounding only with Drummond, and those are all "maybes." If you truly believe this crap then put money up. Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, minutes played, PER, and win shares.
    The eye test is opinion based. The stats reflex Ibaka being the third option. Which has been considered a title contending team for the past 4 years.

    I clearly don't have the same opinion of currency as you do. Wagering USD's doesn't make me anymore right or wrong because it's all opinion based. I'm not arguing stats and stats only. Skillset is the biggest thing that stands out to me. Averaging certain numbers aren't equal in all situation. I factor in impact on wins, teammates, system, etc. If we were to bet and you were to lose would that prove your opinion wrong? Of course not so I fail to see the point if betting is to meassure rightness or wrongness.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Above the Rim View Post
    Would it really bother all of you that much if one guy came on here and kept saying 'The sky is yellow"?

    If not, then why do you guys let this one poster bother you? I don't get it.
    Honestly I don't get it either if I really just don't know squat about basketball or worse am here to just incite the crowd why not just pay me no mind? As it stands this is a forum where individuals give their respective opinions. As long as that's the case I'll continue to give mines how I see it. If you get pissed that's bascially on you and your inability to deal with other opinions.

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumar View Post
    Okay then, disprove my statements about him struggling to find positioning in the paint or not being good on rotations. Or that he has no functional offensive game outside pick and rolls or offensive rebounds. Those are all statements based on film to supplement stats.
    One video of the the best center in the game IMO getting the best of a 2nd year player isn't rock solid proof.


  25. #50
    Hall of Famer ScoutWithoutClout's Avatar
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    god i wish we would have traded up a pick and paired ad with drummond instead of ad with rivers
    "These are my new shoes. They're good shoes. They won't make you rich like me, they won't make you rebound like me, they definitely won't make you handsome like me. They'll only make you have shoes like me. That's it."—Charles Barkley

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