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Thread: Gordon vs Rivers vs Jimmer

  1. #1

    Gordon vs Rivers vs Jimmer

    Just did a little comparison and thought this was interesting:

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    Other than ST and TO, Jimmer led in every relevant category in 2013-2014. Most surprising is Jimmer's [slightly] better defensive rating over both Gordon and Rivers:

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    http://tinyurl.com/lwpzeee

    Factor in that these numbers come from getting consecutive DNPs between games (ie: He did this while playing rusty every game). Not saying the Pelicans should start Jimmer at the 2, but I'd love to find out if these numbers stay anywhere near this high if he was given some consistent minutes.

  2. #2
    Pass-First Point Center Caffeinedisastr's Avatar
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    Looking at this and the advanced stats, Jimmer does what Gordon does but slightly better?
    Was Jimmer brought in to take Gordon's place. (assuming he's traded during the season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...advanced::none

  3. #3
    Ignore individual DRtg when comparing players across teams and/or situations. It is very heavily based on team defense and lineups, especially for players who don't play a large portion of the game.

    Also, trying to extrapolate performance for a player from 10 minutes to 36 will lead to vastly different results than if that player actually played 36 minutes. The percentages will be similar, but the totals (as a general rule) will be much lower than what per36 shows. Especially if USG% stays the same.

    As to your actual point, Jimmer does ok against second units. When he tries to play his game (ball-dominant scorer) against better talent, he struggles mightily to get quality shots and keeping possession of the ball.

  4. #4
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    I would never have argued against those stats, Jimmer probably is more efficient and better at all of those categories. The problem is Jimmer will never get 36 mpg because of his defense, hence the reason why he will never really put up those numbers.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr View Post
    Looking at this and the advanced stats, Jimmer does what Gordon does but slightly better?
    Was Jimmer brought in to take Gordon's place. (assuming he's traded during the season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...advanced::none
    And for $14,000,000 less...I'd say it's worth a gamble.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Caffeinedisastr View Post
    Looking at this and the advanced stats, Jimmer does what Gordon does but slightly better?
    Was Jimmer brought in to take Gordon's place. (assuming he's traded during the season)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...advanced::none
    And for $14,000,000 less...I'd say it's worth a gamble.

  7. #7
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! JunkHead's Avatar
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    Those stats are pretty amazing to see. Just looking at the numbers is eye-opening.

  8. #8
    Jimmer played 519 minutes compared to Austin's 1339 minutes. He also played a ton of garbage minutes against scrubs late in games. Per36 over 519 minutes isn't a good indicator of what he could do with more minutes as he wouldn't be playing in garbage time against 3rd stringers and he wouldn't be as fresh.

    Plus Austin's a way, way, way better defender.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Rivers View Post
    Jimmer played 519 minutes compared to Austin's 1339 minutes. He also played a ton of garbage minutes against scrubs late in games. Per36 over 519 minutes isn't a good indicator of what he could do with more minutes as he wouldn't be playing in garbage time against 3rd stringers and he wouldn't be as fresh.

    Plus Austin's a way, way, way better defender.
    I would actually argue that Jimmer performs better the more minutes he receives in a game. At BYU, he typically played more team oriented ball at first and looked to score more as the game went on.

    Professionally, his best per minute performances have come in the handful of games where he has played more than twenty minutes. That is often the case with shooters; they need to miss a few to get the range locked in, and then they become dangerous.

    I don't know what to think of Rivers
    potential, having not watched him closely the last two years. I am generally wary of putting another poor shooter with good handles on the floor with Tyreke, assuming Tyreke is playing with the second unit. That is a bad sort of redundancy.

    I am not a fan of Gordon, generally speaking, but it seems that he and Jrue should be starting. Tyreke can play with either of them, and should get 30 minutes or more. Jimmer slots in better with Jrue and Tyreke, imo, while Rivers would seem to fit better with Gordon. You can't play five guards, so I would go with Jimmer most of the time for extra floor spacing, and hope that either Davis, Ajinca, or Asik was ready to protect the rim.

  10. #10
    ^ Rivers was one of the best at spot-up 3s last season. He sucks at shooting off the dribble and finishing layups right now.

  11. #11
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    Jimmer never struggles to get his offense in the half-court against almost anyone. His handles aren't great that is a fact. James Harden is proof that if you have a good defense behind you...you can be successful in your role. Houston was still 12th in defense.

    The key for Jimmer is for him to play defense good enough for teams to not try to pick on him. If WE can do that as a team, he will be dangerous.

    Without playing against better players though...I don't buy those stats for the most part.


    Rivers is so quick, I think he could bulk up and still be faster than most. He deserves every chance to do well. We haven't reached that point of no return yet.
    Last edited by Asteptooslow; 07-31-2014 at 06:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Is this thread real or am I chillin with David Bowie in a crazy *** world

  13. #13
    I wrote this about you Mr. West's Avatar
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    Lol at Jimmer starting over Gordon. I will be thrilled of he can develope into any kind of roleplayer.
    Last edited by Mr. West; 07-31-2014 at 08:48 PM.
    @DanielVeuleman

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. West View Post
    Lol at Jimmer starting over Gordon. I will be thrilled of he can developed into any kind of roleplayer.
    no doubt.

  15. #15
    Brows-A-Plooza 2k13! TBlaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Rivers View Post
    Jimmer played 519 minutes compared to Austin's 1339 minutes. He also played a ton of garbage minutes against scrubs late in games. Per36 over 519 minutes isn't a good indicator of what he could do with more minutes as he wouldn't be playing in garbage time against 3rd stringers and he wouldn't be as fresh.

    Plus Austin's a way, way, way better defender.
    I'm completely shocked that Austin Rivers said this about himself.

    #FreeJimmer

  16. #16
    Looking at the join dates in here. Jimmer mania?
    I think Jimmer was a grab at a player on his way out of the league for a good deal. He could do a lot of the things Roberts did. He's a lottery ticket but from what I've seen he needs the ball to be effective. Holiday, Rivers, Gordon, Russ, Evans, and Salmons are all ball dominant players. We've seen Rivers and Holiday play well off-ball and Salmons has gotten better at being okay without the ball as time has gone on. How are we going to be giving Jimmer 10 shots a game or control of the ball when we have clearly better and more established options ahead of him?
    I hope the guy does well but I doubt we see much of him.
    Quote Originally Posted by zakzak View Post
    that dumb Gentry killing Asik morale seriously man he is been good when you compare last season then suddenly he sits whole damn first half barely gets minutes what an idiot we need muscle wee need rebound he took of asik jones,ajinca they got no place on this team play Diallo at least he is decent.
    .......if healthy

    @Jabberwalker

  17. #17
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    I think it is easy to make assumptions about Jimmer. It has become cool to talk bad about him. Like I've said, no one gets picked on by people like this guy. Every article has a list about what he can't do. I will say it is hard to visualize him doing well here. I don't think our other players ARE that much of a better option...just different. That is the key, making the different work.

  18. #18
    Jimmer does not get as much negative press about what he can't do than Rivers. Melo, Bosh, Lin, Perkins, and probably a few more that I can't think of off the top of my head get more negative articles about their abilities than Jimmer does.

    Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwalker View Post
    Looking at the join dates in here. Jimmer mania?
    I think Jimmer was a grab at a player on his way out of the league for a good deal. He could do a lot of the things Roberts did. He's a lottery ticket but from what I've seen he needs the ball to be effective. Holiday, Rivers, Gordon, Russ, Evans, and Salmons are all ball dominant players. We've seen Rivers and Holiday play well off-ball and Salmons has gotten better at being okay without the ball as time has gone on. How are we going to be giving Jimmer 10 shots a game or control of the ball when we have clearly better and more established options ahead of him?
    I hope the guy does well but I doubt we see much of him.
    True but even ball dominate guards pass more frequently and efficiently when they play with better offensive players. I think this team will be the best offensive team that Jimmer has ever played with no matter what lineup he will be with at any point in a game.

  20. #20
    This is hilarious, Rivers plays against second and third units. Jimmer plays against the walking dead. Mop up duty. Gordon plays against the best! Wow!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanned View Post
    Just did a little comparison and thought this was interesting:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	jimmer-gordon-rivers.jpg 
Views:	172 
Size:	24.9 KB 
ID:	5704

    Other than ST and TO, Jimmer led in every relevant category in 2013-2014. Most surprising is Jimmer's [slightly] better defensive rating over both Gordon and Rivers:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	jimmer-gordon-rivers-defense.jpg 
Views:	152 
Size:	12.9 KB 
ID:	5705

    http://tinyurl.com/lwpzeee

    Factor in that these numbers come from getting consecutive DNPs between games (ie: He did this while playing rusty every game). Not saying the Pelicans should start Jimmer at the 2, but I'd love to find out if these numbers stay anywhere near this high if he was given some consistent minutes.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibner View Post
    Jimmer does not get as much negative press about what he can't do than Rivers. Melo, Bosh, Lin, Perkins, and probably a few more that I can't think of off the top of my head get more negative articles about their abilities than Jimmer does.

    Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
    One of my faves from a bulls article I read as I try to learn more about the guy...

    His (Thibodeau) short rotation was backed only by the likes of Jimmer Fredette, a turnover-prone guard with only occasional scoring touch, who can’t guard a broken broom.

  22. #22
    Hall of Famer ScoutWithoutClout's Avatar
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    i find JJ reddick's late development encouraging. he and jimmer are very similar players and reddick didn't have a good year until he turned 25. jammer is 24
    "These are my new shoes. They're good shoes. They won't make you rich like me, they won't make you rebound like me, they definitely won't make you handsome like me. They'll only make you have shoes like me. That's it."—Charles Barkley

  23. #23
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    I don't think Reddick should be starter, but he can get hot. He is a success story though.

  24. #24
    Brows-A-Plooza 2k13! TBlaze's Avatar
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    There's no way Jimmer was a "on his way out the league" player.

    The dude can shoot. If freakin' Steve Kerr and John Paxon can produce in the league as contributing role players, I'm sure that Jimmer has a home for a while. Those guys are his BASEMENT.

  25. #25
    Jimmer is on a minimum contract after no team saw a use fpr him after weeks of free agency after being a lottery pick who was considered to have substantial upside after only 3 years. That is about as close to out of the league as you get.

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