Russ Smith cracks the NBA.com Rookie Ladder

[NOEngineer]

Check out this link:

http://www.nba.com/2014/news/07/20/r...=iref:nbahpt6a

Two points:

1) Russ Smith jumped into the bottom of the ladder at #10. Since the writers go into this with the pre-conceived notion that early draft picks (including Nerlins) will be the best, it is a real accomplishment for pick #47 to crack that top ten. Disclaimer: Summer League performance is not a reliable indicator of future success. Actual results may vary....
2) Check out how bad most of the top draft picks looked. A few guys out of the top 14 got good reviews, but most were disappointing.

Listen up you draft pick hogs, and stop bashing Dell for turning our crap-shoot top 10 picks into proven useful players plus late draft picks on reasonable salaries.

[DroopyDawg]

Listen up you draft pick hogs, and stop bashing Dell for turning our crap-shoot top 10 picks into proven useful players plus late draft picks on reasonable salaries.

+1

[Schmide234]

Ya ya ya

[MichaelMcNamara]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

[Kurgan]

I think it's definitely different. From the games i watched it was clear that withey was not even trying. Not even remotely. Even not judging his awful movements, his non-existent defense and the fact that he still doesn't grab rebounds or score...seeing him play like that was not good, not at all. Even counting all stats off, that was the major thing that disappointed me. And if you play like **** because you have a sorry sore foot...don't play, we would have been better off anyway.

Russ on the other hand...i didn't like and still don't some things of his game, and he can get out of hand and make dumb decisions (and he can't shoot a damn free throw) but he played all out, like he would be cut any other minute.

Besides, they both are senior. They both are "old" (not "eman old" but still "old") and so they can be compared, to a point. It's not the "oh, rivers was one and done, but russ smith with 3 more years, look how much better he was in summer league". Withey also has played against nba talent, russ has not. Considering all of these things withey's performance was pretty much awful. Smith's was a whole lot better but that simply means that i'd like him to play a couple minutes more in pre-season...not that i'm ready to dump rivers and hand him the second unit keys.

So sl is usually useless, no doubt, but if you see something very good or very bad you have to analyse all of it while understanding that in any case...it doesn't mean a whole lot. But a bit? Yeah. A few minutes more in preseason for smith, a few less for withey...that kind of thing.

[ItIsRynosTime]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

Pretty simple, simple___. Jeff Withey had a sore foot and very much doubt he was 100% during SL but he played through it. Jeff Withey played a full NBA season as a rookie with a positive 0.89 RPM which many players on this team can't boast and he was not going all out to make a team. He probably took it easier with his sore foot.

[SaintPelican225]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

Honestly, Russ did some good things,but needs lots of work. Withey on the other hand was awful. If you look at the guys who played well in SL the majority off them were guys who were bench guys or second year guys who played limited minutes last year.

[N.O.Bronco]

This thread is one big walking contradiction.

Saying summer league isn't indicative of future success then using it to praise Russ Smith.

Then saying keeping draft picks is silly and a crapshoot but then praising Demps for the draft pick he traded into in that crapshoot. Draft picks are a garbage crapshoot and whoever wants to build around that is silly, but let me praise this guy we got in that crapshoot.

It's the epitome of talking out of both sides.

[ItIsRynosTime]

I love being the Debbie Downer, and how can I say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. I can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

FYP. (Fixed your post).

[NOEngineer]

I'm not saying Russ will make it in the NBA, but the fact that he garnered some recognition by performing well where some much higher draftees didn't is nice and worthy of acknowledgement. That recognition also sort of carries over into the season, so he won't be starting from complete anonymity in his quest for rookie of the year. Okay, just kidding about the ROY. None of that will make him taller or cut down on his turnovers, and he won't play ROY minutes no matter how good he might be.
It is one more (very small) step in his progression of success at every level in which he has played. Of course the jury is still out, but I'm satisfied that we got good value with our picks over the past two years.
My point was that we have traded overvalued mid-lottery picks for proven players and late round picks, which appear to be of decent quality. Not one smidgen of contradiction there....

[RekeHavoc]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

I don't think summer league matters, but I think you can take things from it. Averages are pretty much pointless, but I can tell Russ can make good passes and can get by his defender. I also can tell Withey is really bad offensively if he's asked to do something.

[ItIsRynosTime]

I'm not saying Russ will make it in the NBA, but the fact that he garnered some recognition by performing well where some much higher draftees didn't is nice and worthy of acknowledgement. That recognition also sort of carries over into the season, so he won't be starting from complete anonymity in his quest for rookie of the year. Okay, just kidding about the ROY. None of that will make him taller or cut down on his turnovers, and he won't play ROY minutes no matter how good he might be.
It is one more (very small) step in his progression of success at every level in which he has played. Of course the jury is still out, but I'm satisfied that we got good value with our picks over the past two years.
My point was that we have traded overvalued mid-lottery picks for proven players and late round picks, which appear to be of decent quality. Not one smidgen of contradiction there....

Good thread. Forgive PR for having too many wise guys trying to "improve" their basketball knowledge and show off.

[Mythrol]

I don't think summer league matters, but I think you can take things from it. Averages are pretty much pointless, but I can tell Russ can make good passes and can get by his defender. I also can tell Withey is really bad offensively if he's asked to do something.

But can you really? Russ is going against D League guys, we have no idea if he'll still be able to get past NBA players until we see him do it. I can't remember, did he even go against 1 NBA pg that played last year? Same goes for Withey, he was playing through injury and when you actually compare his stats to Young who people are in love with, there's not a huge difference.

SL is fun to get excited about watching but I take very little from it. By all accounts Fells was our best player at our weakest position and yet we signed another guard over him. Shows you how much our coaching staff cares about SL.

[RekeHavoc]

But can you really? Russ is going against D League guys, we have no idea if he'll still be able to get past NBA players until we see him do it. I can't remember, did he even go against 1 NBA pg that played last year? Same goes for Withey, he was playing through injury and when you actually compare his stats to Young who people are in love with, there's not a huge difference.

SL is fun to get excited about watching but I take very little from it. By all accounts Fells was our best player at our weakest position and yet we signed another guard over him. Shows you how much our coaching staff cares about SL.

It was more about looking at his handles than who was defending him but that's a good point. I agree that's it's hard to get a lot from it.

[ItIsRynosTime]

But can you really? Russ is going against D League guys, we have no idea if he'll still be able to get past NBA players until we see him do it. I can't remember, did he even go against 1 NBA pg that played last year? Same goes for Withey, he was playing through injury and when you actually compare his stats to Young who people are in love with, there's not a huge difference.

SL is fun to get excited about watching but I take very little from it. By all accounts Fells was our best player at our weakest position and yet we signed another guard over him. Shows you how much our coaching staff cares about SL.

There are slower guys in the NBA too who Russ can get past. Until he retired, Derek Fisher was getting PT in the NBA. All the draft picks played in either Orlando or LV or both. Also many guys who have a year and some with a few years of NBA experience. With all the talent in SL, Russ Smith had a higher assist average than anyone in Orlando or LV. Before Russ Smith's senior year people were questioning if he had the court vision and passing to be an NBA point guard. He focused more on his passing and he did a solid job. Russ didn't have the best players around him either outside of Montrezl Harrell. Why would Russ not be able to get by NBA players with the lack of contact allowed? Every rookie and every player has flaws. Russ can get by NBA players, that much is known.

[NOLa.]

Okay PR, predict where Russ finishes on the Rookie Ladder at seasons end.

[ItIsRynosTime]

Okay PR, predict where Russ finishes on the Rookie Ladder at seasons end.

Won't play enough to make the rookie ladder. A player needs to have the opportunity to start to realistically have a shot at the top 10.

[Mythrol]

There are slower guys in the NBA too who Russ can get past. Until he retired, Derek Fisher was getting PT in the NBA. All the draft picks played in either Orlando or LV or both. Also many guys who have a year and some with a few years of NBA experience. With all the talent in SL, Russ Smith had a higher assist average than anyone in Orlando or LV. Before Russ Smith's senior year people were questioning if he had the court vision and passing to be an NBA point guard. He focused more on his passing and he did a solid job. Russ didn't have the best players around him either outside of Montrezl Harrell. Why would Russ not be able to get by NBA players with the lack of contact allowed? Every rookie and every player has flaws. Russ can get by NBA players, that much is known.

So who were the PGs he went against that prove he can do that against NBA talent? Rookies are irrelevant since we have no idea how any will develop.

I saw Russ make passes when there was a lane for him to see through but how will that translate over when lanes are tighter, players are faster, and his handles can't keep up? The only thing known is he can't kick his bad TO habit against sub NBA talent. How will he match up against guys who are just as fast as him?

I like Russ quite a bit but to say SL proved anything is completely false. Now if he gets a few hundred minutes against NBA players and still does the same then maybe we have a conversation.

[ItIsRynosTime]

So who were the PGs he went against that prove he can do that against NBA talent? Rookies are irrelevant since we have no idea how any will develop.

I saw Russ make passes when there was a lane for him to see through but how will that translate over when lanes are tighter, players are faster, and his handles can't keep up? The only thing known is he can't kick his bad TO habit against sub NBA talent. How will he match up against guys who are just as fast as him?

I like Russ quite a bit but to say SL proved anything is completely false. Now if he gets a few hundred minutes against NBA players and still does the same then maybe we have a conversation.

Did you say the same thing about Stephen Curry, about Damian Lillard, about Devin Harris, about Ricky Rubio, about Isaiah Thomas, about Kemba Walker, about Eric Bledsoe, about Rajon Rondo, about Mike Conley, about Ty Lawson, about Patty Mills, about Jeff Teague, and about Tony Parker before they played in the NBA?

[Mythrol]

Did you say the same thing about Ricky Rubio, about Isaiah Thomas, about Rajon Rondo, about Mike Conley, about Ty Lawson, about Patty Mills, about Jeff Teague, and about Tony Parker before they played in the NBA?

I don't see the connection. . .how old were they when they came into the league?

Are you trying to say that there's higher odds a 2nd round pick will become an all-star level player than Bust?

[TBlaze]

Summer league does mean something, but more for Russ than it does for Withey.

This is Russ's first NBA action at any point, so obviously it means something b/c he's performing better than what his draft position/expectation indicates. We'll see how that translates to the next level.

However for Withey, this is his second go around. He's already played in the league and showed flashes at times. So you can't just dismiss his disappearance in the SL against lesser competition just b/c he had a few good games last year for an injury riddled team.

I can see how you might blow it off in Withey's case, but there's gotta be some concern there. But Russ has to excite you in summer league. He also didn't get hurt. +++++'s all around.

[ItIsRynosTime]

I don't see the connection. . .how old were they when they came into the league?

Are you trying to say that there's higher odds a 2nd round pick will become an all-star level player than Bust?

Patty Mills was the 55th draft pick. Isaiah Thomas was the 60th draft pick. Russ Smith was drafted before either of them in a deeper draft and is the same height as Patty Mills.

Yes, Russ Smith was drafted later for being 23 more than anything else. At any rate, Russ Smith can play on both ends and get by NBA defenders.

[Mythrol]

Patty Mills was the 55th draft pick. Isaiah Thomas was the 60th draft pick. Russ Smith was drafted before either of them in a deeper draft and is the same height as Patty Mills.

So?

[nolaslim213]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

I get where you're coming from Mike, but the answer isn't as simple as the question. Some guys, as you know, are more role players, who need better players around them in order to elevate their game. For example, you take Kawhi Leonard, and you tell him to carry the team, and he folds. However, you tell him to play off the ball next to Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan, and he is the MVP of the Finals. I think Withey falls into this category, obviously to a much lesser degree, but he is the kind of player that is much better when playing with guys who carry the load. Now, you take a guy like Russ Smith, a guy who can get his own shot, and he is going to thrive in summer league. He doesn't need guys to set him up because he can create on his own, and even better, he'll create for his teammates.

So yes, I would fully expect a guy like Russ to thrive in summer league and a guy like Withey to fail in summer league (although I do wish he had more rebounds). How much does it mean in the long run? I mean, it's just summer league. Competition is low, so if A = B, then B most certainly does not = C. Still, it's good to see a rookie like Russ play so well, and it's only slightly troubling to see a guy like Withey struggle.

[BP225]

I hate being the Debbie Downer, but how can we say that SL means nothing for Withey and then get excited about this ranking, which is obviously based solely off Summer League - even though the OP has that disclaimer in his post?

Doesn't seem to make sense. Either SL means something or it doesn't. Can't have it both ways. And if it means nothing, should the "draft pick hogs" really listen up based off of it?

Somethings gotta give.

Withey looked decent at the end of the year so I've been trying to figure out the regression in SL. Coach Gates talked about SL being for Withey and was going to make him one of the focuses of the team. I didn't get to watch the games, but that sounds like Withey would have had an expanded role. Maybe having expanded responsibilities was not a good thing for him.