For some reason I can't stop laughing.Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang
Is water wet?
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Contributor 
For some reason I can't stop laughing.Is water wet?
You know definitively that Love isn't leaving?
[MM you used to get snappy on twitter (and still do on here) for people stating things like it's a fact]
Everything I've read says Love isn't opting in for anyone and wants to test free agency. He might be open to resigning with the Cavs, but he could also decide that his heart is in L.A. and he wants to be the savior for the Franchise. If Love decides to opt in, maybe you trade Wiggins. But you can't just assume he's going to opt in because that would be foolish.
...what evidence did you see from Kobe, Paul George, or Kevin Love as 19yr olds that indicated they would be the players they've become? Professional scouts have been raving about Wiggins potential for the last 2 years and most people have his ceiling much higher than Derozen. Derozen w/ better defense, IMO, is his floor.
I think the best thing Cleveland could do is not be enamored with the "superstar" appeal of Kevin Love. Keep Wiggins, and trade everybody else (Bennet, Waiters, all three 2015 1st round draft choices) and get the best second tier player in the $9-15m range that you can get.
I seriously think you could get a Millsaps, Ryno, or better type player for Anthony Bennett, Dion Waiters, and a #1. A guy that gives you 70% of what Kevin Love gives you.
Wiggins+Anderson > Kevin Love
IMO.
Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 07-17-2014 at 10:37 PM.
I said that if you think he will be great, then I understand that you wouldn't want to make the trade. I just don't see anything to project him to be on that level.
"Professional scouts" were high on him going into college, just like were high on Felipe Lopez. Who? Exactly. The projections I saw after his freshman year at Kansas were far more conservative, however. Not like any of that matters. None of us know the future. We can just use our best guesses. My opinion is that he falls somewhere between Derozen and George, but closer to Derozen. So, if I were the Cavs GM I would do it in a heartbeat. I am sure there are others with other opinions. Its why one GM wanted Noel and a pick and another GM wanted Jrue Holiday.
Difference of opinions.
@mcnamara247
It absolutely is a fair argument because Grant Hill was a young, multiple time, All NBA player and Tim Duncan was an unproven rookie. The Spurs had a future Hall of Famer with only about 5 more years left and a win now mentality. How are the situations different?
You can take Dell's approach of trading lottery tickets for proven assets to an extreme that actually hurts the potential ceiling of your franchise. If you trade all your lottery tickets, you can never hit the jackpot. If you sold all your internet stocks before the tech bubble burst, you certainly missed out on the big losers, but you also miss out on the massive uptick of the Microsoft, Google, and Apples of the world.
But back to basketball. "The Dell Demps Strategy" (and I like it) following it religiously would lead you to have traded Kevin Love for Amare in 2008. Or James Hardin for Deron Williams. Or Kevin Durant for Gilber Arenas. Or Lamarcus Aldridge for Ben Wallace.
In other words, it's not a philosophy to live by.
Those examples above are not fair. Love was a 5th overall pick. Harden 3rd. Durant and Aldridge 2nd.
Demps traded the 6th pick in one of the worst drafts ever and a 10th pick. Probably a 12th -17th pick for Asik.
He has never traded a Wiggins caliber player or pick that high in what was even an average draft. I get your point, but the examples were not fair to what Dell has done.
This is a lot less definitive than your previous post in this thread on Wiggins. I never ever have a problem with difference of opinions, but you stated your opinion of Wiggins ceiling as some universally accepted truth or fact, when I think you assessment is probably in the minority.
Hell, it's a message board and it might not have been your intent to imply your opinion was universally accepted, but you can dish criticism of post when other people do it, so I figure you can also take it!
FWIW, remember that guy who projected Anthony Davis as Marcus Camby with a better shot...
I wasn't speaking to what Dell has done specifically, but to those who subscribe to the Demps philosophy as some new NBA Draft Axiom.
You can't always say trade the unknown quantity for the known quantity.
What does a pic of a track athlete of indeterminable age, which makes it impossible to identify the appropriate emotional response to, have to do with what I said?
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
http://thebasketbawlblog.com/
I think the response was obvious Eam
I think he's trying to give you the C'MON MAN face.... Pretty straight forwardWhat does a pic of a track athlete of indeterminable age, which makes it impossible to identify the appropriate emotional response to, have to do with what I said?
Contributor
Huh? What face? She isn't even looking towards the camera.
Contributor
Better question... Wiggins for Jimmer?
I'm confused now. You did see the picture of the dude making the squinty face right? wut chick you talkin bout
Contributor
What are you talking about? What dude? There's a guy in the pic? Where? The person with the jean jacket? You sure? I think that's a short haired black lady....maybe someone is hidden behind them. But I sure as hell don't see a face.
Unless you're saying the chick with the pony tail is no chick at all...at which case I can't help you there. That looks like all woman...or at least female.
Still unsure about the age...
So..anyway...still waiting on some coherent responses. Wiggins for Ryno, yay or nay?
Contributor
No one in their right mind would trade Wiggins for Jimmer.
Jimmer clearly is the better dancer and doesn't frighten small children and grown adults with his smile.
I would trade Ryno for Wiggins. Yay!
Ur weird
Eam missing the point of OP. We just trying to point out the obv
CLE really is not facing a Wiggins for Love decision. Isn't it more of a Wiggins for one extra year of Love in Lebron's prime decision? I assume if they were so inclined, CLE could wait out this year, hold onto Wiggins and then just sign Love next year, better for CLE in the long run. As long as Love is serious about playing in CLE, then at that point MIN would be kind of forced to take sign & trade of some sort?
I assume Lebron does not want to wait a year to contend for a title with Love at his age, so he is forcing CLE's hand. However waiting a year would seem to be in the best interest of the organization.
EDIT - Saw the post by MM saying their would not be cap room. There is no way to manufacture room? Loomis could do it.
Last edited by Euphonetiks; 07-18-2014 at 11:06 AM.
Even if they could manufacture the cap room, it is nowhere near a lock. You would be competing with a dozen other teams for him, and you wouldn't have his Bird Rights. If the Warriors trade for him in February, you are SOL.
You can try to get greedy and keep both, but that could easily result in you losing Love too.
Even if they miss out on Love though, Gasol would be just as good of a fit if not a better one for that team IMO. Theres a few more bigs in the class that would fit very well also. Would be wise to wait one year as you can sign nearly any player you want with Lebron on your roster and a max contract available. I guess maybe they think Lebron's window closes before Wiggins becomes a valuable championship piece, I just disagree.
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I don't even think it would be possible for Cleveland to manufacture the cap room. Stealing this from a past thread:
"If the goal is to keep Wiggins, let's assume the Cavs get rid of literally everyone but James, Irving, and Wiggins. Irving will be on the books for around $20M (assuming he's an All-Star starter, which I'm assuming with James in town), James for around $22M, Wiggins for around $6M, and about $5M in incomplete roster holds, for a total of $53M. With a salary cap of $66.5M, that leaves $13.5M in cap space, which doesn't come close to a Love max deal."
If Cleveland wants Love, it pretty much has to be a trade with Minnesota (either by the deadline or an S&T in the offseason). So not only does Cleveland invite further competition if Love hits FA, but then they have to bank on Minnesota cooperating in an S&T.
I think the real question is to figure out if any of the following statements is true:
1. Cleveland is a title contender today.
2. Cleveland would be a title contender with Kevin Love on the roster, but not is not one today
3. Cleveland is not a title contender, with out without Kevin Love.
If I were the GM, and this is just me, if I believe that Kevin Love is the piece I need to make my team a contender in the East, then I do what I have to do to make it happen. I'm not going to do all that work to clear room for LeBron to have the piece I think I need hanging there to be had and not pull the trigger, even if it means parting with Wiggins. Sometimes, to get quality, you have to pay.
If I think I'm ready now or that Love will not get me over that hump, then i pass and develop Wiggins. I'm already a playoff teams as is, and if Wiggins is what he can be, I'll have him and LeBron and Irving and i'll take my chances with that core of players.
The East is terrible; Cleveland is clearly a contender today. Will they be as good out of the gate as the Heat the last couple of years? Probably not, but they don't have to be to win the East.
If you're a GM, I think this comes down to assessing Wiggins. If he's the next superstar, you just threw away the legitimate opportunity at dominating the NBA for the next decade.
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