Doing the Asik Trade WITHOUT moving a core piece

[tyler]

He's developing and only 21, hardly a finished product. Don't want to trade. He's more valuable to us anyway. Not even worth dumping unless we have to

Reason why he's more valuable is because he knows the system.. Not because of his talents

[LouisianaPride]

he's show flashes, and anyway dumping a 21 year old prospect you spent the 10th pick on so soon isn't too bright. Not everyone comes out the draft ready to ball. Just wish fans would show a little patience sometimes. Its not like you can get anything for him so unless its to facilitate a bigger piece whats the point in dumping him?

[tyler]

he's show flashes, and anyway dumping a 21 year old prospect you spent the 10th pick on so soon isn't too bright. Not everyone comes out the draft ready to ball. Just wish fans would show a little patience sometimes. Its not like you can get anything for him so unless its to facilitate a bigger piece whats the point in dumping him?

Don't know who you are talking too....BUT I never said we should get rid of him... just we tend to overvalue certain prospects. In which case our own

[hornetsrebirth]

He's developing and only 21, hardly a finished product. Don't want to trade. He's more valuable to us anyway. Not even worth dumping unless we have to

Rivers is still developing and may be an ok rotation player but if it comes down to Austin Rivers vs Anthony Morrow, I'll take Morrow because he can shoot better than just about anyone in the league. Austin Rivers struggles to make free throws, not a good indicator for an NBA guard. Pelicans need to shed salary very unlikely to keep both Rivers and Morrow.

[LouisianaPride]

Rivers is still developing and may be an ok rotation player but if it comes down to Austin Rivers vs Anthony Morrow, I'll take Morrow because he can shoot better than just about anyone in the league. Austin Rivers struggles to make free throws, not a good indicator for an NBA guard. Pelicans need to shed salary very unlikely to keep both Rivers and Morrow.

Yea, I can agree with this. I iust dont want to get rid of him just for the sake of it. If its for a greater purpose im good with it

[LouisianaPride]

Don't know who you are talking too....BUT I never said we should get rid of him... just we tend to overvalue certain prospects. in which cases our own

What I mean is, I dont think its smart of our team to dump a player after 2 years just for the sake of it. Would really want to see another year. Unless we have to to make the asik or keep morrow. It just sounded like yall wanted to dump him for the hell of it

[Smow-]

What I mean is, I dont think its smart of our team to dump a player after 2 years just for the sake of it. Would really want to see another year. Unless we have to to make the asik or keep morrow. It just sounded like yall wanted to dump him for the hell of it

I would rather take a chance on further developing rivers then resigning morrow at this point. Rivers will prob break our as a defensive specialist this season. Keep him around the season after, and this team has a scary backup defensive backcourt in Ruivuss

[tyler]

What I mean is, I dont think its smart of our team to dump a player after 2 years just for the sake of it. Would really want to see another year. Unless we have to to make the asik or keep morrow. It just sounded like yall wanted to dump him for the hell of it

I see what you are saying but like I said in another thread he is improving only because he did so terrible his first year... and after waiting for aminu to develop ig I'm tired of waiting...We're in the process were we have to make the playoffs not wait for development... Cause if we don't make the playoff we lose a pick and somebody will probably lose their job.

I would rather take a chance on further developing rivers then resigning morrow at this point. Rivers will prob break our as a defensive specialist this season. Keep him around the season after, and this team has a scary backup defensive backcourt in Ruivuss

Actually I would rather have morrow...the fact that you are betting that rivers will become defensive specialist means you are uncertain or hoping or that he isn't one already... the fact that Morrow is already a 3pt specialist makes him better because we know what he brings to the table.

[LouisianaPride]

Aminu and Rivers are completely different situations though. I am with you about our time is now to start doing something. Its just not fair to blame Rivers because we got frustrated with Aminu. Like Smow said, He's turning into a really nice defender, something we cant really afford to just toss out. Ultimately I think Morrow gets some nice change elsewhere so it wont even come to a decision on our end.

[tyler]

Aminu and Rivers are completely different situations though. I am with you about our time is now to start doing something. Its just not fair to blame Rivers because we got frustrated with Aminu. Like Smow said, He's turning into a really nice defender, something we cant really afford to just toss out. Ultimately I think Morrow gets some nice change elsewhere so it wont even come to a decision on our end.

Ig because I've seen two years of Rivers and haven't been impressed due to his hype... We have a total of 5 Guards, talking about development Russ is actually know for his tenacious defense, which makes Rivers expendable

[redrum]

This team as constructed will have a 3 guard rotation, Jrue, Tyreke, and Gordon. Who cares who the 4th guard is. Rivers, Morrow, Roberts, or any other random NBA free agent guard can fill that role. This team also has a great 3 big rotation in AD, Asik.and Ryno. So the same goes for Ajinca, J Smith,Aminu, and Withey. These guys are nothing more than fillers, if any of them are playing major minutes something has gone wrong again. Trade any or all of them and get a small forward, then fill out the rest of the roster with role players.

[Vinny6420]

I really just want this to get done

[BP225]

I really just want this to get done

It still may be a while. Best case scenario for us is a S&T of Aminu or Roberts, and while there is interest in those guys, they'll still be low priorities even for the teams that want them.

[hornetsrebirth]

This team as constructed will have a 3 guard rotation, Jrue, Tyreke, and Gordon. Who cares who the 4th guard is. Rivers, Morrow, Roberts, or any other random NBA free agent guard can fill that role. This team also has a great 3 big rotation in AD, Asik.and Ryno. So the same goes for Ajinca, J Smith,Aminu, and Withey. These guys are nothing more than fillers, if any of them are playing major minutes something has gone wrong again. Trade any or all of them and get a small forward, then fill out the rest of the roster with role players.

Even if all 6 of those players are healthy for 82 games (huge IF) having a guy on the bench that can drain shots better than almost anyone in the league (Anthony Morrow) is useful. The Pelicans aren't playing a 6 man rotation for 48 minutes.

[redrum]

Even if all 6 of those players are healthy for 82 games (huge IF) having a guy on the bench that can drain shots better than almost anyone in the league (Anthony Morrow) is useful. The Pelicans aren't playing a 6 man rotation for 48 minutes.

I never said a 6 man rotation, I said they have 6 guys who will play major minutes, non of which are small forwards. If any of the bench players can help them acquire that player, then ship them out. I really like Morrow, bit did he really give us that much more than Roger Mason did the year before? Bench players who play limited minutes or on a pinch are much easier to find than starting small forwards.

[ajrochel]

Yeah I think you guys should face the fact that for now it seems EG id staying. I for one am fine with that. I think a healthy eg will be great. He just wasn't worth his contract. That's my bone.

We have one hole to fill and that is at the 3. So whatever not in the top 6 is needed to fill that use it bc if this team is healthy no one will get major minutes outside of the 3 guards and 3 bigs.

[MichaelMcNamara]

When healthy, those 6 should eat up about 205-210 minutes. Leaving 30-35 for 2-3 more rotation guys.

Of course you want depth for when injuries occur, but you get to the playoffs healthy, and you probably only need 1 more guy, considering the 8th guy in the rotation is probably already on the roster too

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Taken from Bourbon Street Shots:

Bourbon Street Shots has learned that Dell Demps has explored some options that will allow him to complete the trade for Omer Asik while keeping his core in place. Immediately after the Asik trade was announced, I wrote this piece about how Dell would have to trade either Gordon, Rivers, or Anderson to make the deal work financially, but Dell might be trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat by doing the deal another way. It could happen if he does the following:
1. Have Houston take the Pelicans non-guaranteed contracts (Ely, Babbitt, and Withey) – this might already be an agreed upon part of the trade. The Rockets could use these as an asset or just release them to create cap room.
2. Sign and trade one of our own free agents to a third team. For the deal to work cap wise, the Pelicans would have to send out a player whose salary starts at $2.4 million or more next year (and if it is $3.2 million, they can keep Withey, $3.4 million for Babbitt)
So, we have heard that the Grizzlies might have some interest in Roberts, the Mavericks might have some interest in Aminu, and several teams have interest in Morrow. Now, Aminu and Roberts (and even Smith) can be signed and traded using Bird Rights, meaning that we can keep our MLE. Morrow, however, would likely have to be signed using part or all of our MLE because we do not have Bird Rights on him. (Edit: To do a S&T with Morrow, the Pels would have to sign him into cap room, which would make them lose their MLE, but would allow the to use the Room Exception) Would it be worth losing our MLE to keep Rivers and Withey? Before you answer yes, remember that we still desperately need a SF.
A couple of other small things to keep in mind here – Both parties (the other team and our free agent) have to agree to the deal and that makes this option more difficult than upon first glance. First of all, you have to give out either 3 or 4 year contracts to guys that you sign and trade. You can’t sign and trade Smith on a 1 year deal, for instance. Now, it can be a three year deal with only the first year guaranteed, but that is where the player might object. And the other tough thing with going this route is: Why would that third team help us out? They aren’t going to just do us a favor for nothing. And Dell doesn’t have picks to sweeten the deal. But maybe that cash from Houston can be rerouted. That’s an idea.
Also, you could see teams without cap room but with trade exceptions being interested in this route. There are several teams that can absorb our players using a trade exception, so be on the lookout for that. Morrow seems the most likely candidate here, though as I said before, that would cause us to lose our MLE. The Pelicans would be stacked in the front court and the backcourt, but would have a gaping hole at SF, with only the biannual and Bird Rights to Aminu, Smith, and Roberts left to fix it. It is an interesting option for Dell though nonetheless

Assuming Ely, Babbitt and Withey are sent to Houston and then are waived, could the Pel’s sign them later?

Also if Dell manages to set up a sign and trade to free up this 2.4M to fit Asik into the cap from both Aminu and Roberts and it totals say 5M for the first year, is that enough or does that 2.4M only work for the one player or can it work for combined players?

For example: If it is for a combined players – Aminu and Roberts (5M) ….could we then use the cap space 2.6M to sign Morrow, then use the MLE on a SF and to fill out the roster?

Thanks

[MichaelMcNamara]

Taken from Bourbon Street Shots:

Bourbon Street Shots has learned that Dell Demps has explored some options that will allow him to complete the trade for Omer Asik while keeping his core in place. Immediately after the Asik trade was announced, I wrote this piece about how Dell would have to trade either Gordon, Rivers, or Anderson to make the deal work financially, but Dell might be trying to pull a rabbit out of his hat by doing the deal another way. It could happen if he does the following:
1. Have Houston take the Pelicans non-guaranteed contracts (Ely, Babbitt, and Withey) – this might already be an agreed upon part of the trade. The Rockets could use these as an asset or just release them to create cap room.
2. Sign and trade one of our own free agents to a third team. For the deal to work cap wise, the Pelicans would have to send out a player whose salary starts at $2.4 million or more next year (and if it is $3.2 million, they can keep Withey, $3.4 million for Babbitt)
So, we have heard that the Grizzlies might have some interest in Roberts, the Mavericks might have some interest in Aminu, and several teams have interest in Morrow. Now, Aminu and Roberts (and even Smith) can be signed and traded using Bird Rights, meaning that we can keep our MLE. Morrow, however, would likely have to be signed using part or all of our MLE because we do not have Bird Rights on him. (Edit: To do a S&T with Morrow, the Pels would have to sign him into cap room, which would make them lose their MLE, but would allow the to use the Room Exception) Would it be worth losing our MLE to keep Rivers and Withey? Before you answer yes, remember that we still desperately need a SF.
A couple of other small things to keep in mind here – Both parties (the other team and our free agent) have to agree to the deal and that makes this option more difficult than upon first glance. First of all, you have to give out either 3 or 4 year contracts to guys that you sign and trade. You can’t sign and trade Smith on a 1 year deal, for instance. Now, it can be a three year deal with only the first year guaranteed, but that is where the player might object. And the other tough thing with going this route is: Why would that third team help us out? They aren’t going to just do us a favor for nothing. And Dell doesn’t have picks to sweeten the deal. But maybe that cash from Houston can be rerouted. That’s an idea.
Also, you could see teams without cap room but with trade exceptions being interested in this route. There are several teams that can absorb our players using a trade exception, so be on the lookout for that. Morrow seems the most likely candidate here, though as I said before, that would cause us to lose our MLE. The Pelicans would be stacked in the front court and the backcourt, but would have a gaping hole at SF, with only the biannual and Bird Rights to Aminu, Smith, and Roberts left to fix it. It is an interesting option for Dell though nonetheless

Assuming Ely, Babbitt and Withey are sent to Houston and then are waived, could the Pel’s sign them later?

Also if Dell manages to set up a sign and trade to free up this 2.4M to fit Asik into the cap from both Aminu and Roberts and it totals say 5M for the first year, is that enough or does that 2.4M only work for the one player or can it work for combined players?

For example: If it is for a combined players – Aminu and Roberts (5M) ….could we then use the cap space 2.6M to sign Morrow, then use the MLE on a SF and to fill out the roster?

Thanks

You can't obtain a player you have traded for 3 months. So, Babbitt and Withey would have to decline all offers and come back in early October. Unlikely, but possible.

Again, YOU CANNOT USE BOTH CAP ROOM AND THE MLE

Just wanted to put that in all caps because I might have typed that 100 times this summer. Maybe it will stick in peoples minds if it all caps.

[BP225]

You can't obtain a player you have traded for 3 months. So, Babbitt and Withey would have to decline all offers and come back in early October. Unlikely, but possible.

I thought it was a year in the new CBA.

[Kurgan]

You can't obtain a player you have traded for 3 months. So, Babbitt and Withey would have to decline all offers and come back in early October. Unlikely, but possible.

Again, YOU CANNOT USE BOTH CAP ROOM AND THE MLE

Just wanted to put that in all caps because I might have typed that 100 times this summer. Maybe it will stick in peoples minds if it all caps.

You should just tell guru to write it as the closing of all of his posts, it would stick much much more in the posters' minds

[Mythrol]

I thought it was a year in the new CBA.

I think you are right. Here is the quote from Larry Coon,

"When a team trades a player who is subsequently waived by the receiving team, it cannot claim the player off waivers or re-sign the player until the one-year anniversary of the trade, or until the July 1 following the end of his contract4, whichever is earlier."

[MichaelMcNamara]

Yeah, it did change. So, this would mean no more Withey or Babbitt.

Personally, I would rather they attach Ajinca than Withey. Or, the dream scenario (other than moving Gordon) is that they find a team that wants two of our free agents. All they would need to do is sign and trade those guys for a total of 4.4 mil or more, add Ely to Houston and we keep everybody, plus our Bird Rights, MLE, BAE, etc.

I just wonder how much Lebron and Melo are holding things up with talks. It would suck if they don't announce until the 9th or 10th. Ideally, we turn in the Asik trade after a couple of moves, but what if the league is at a standstill on the 10th still and the Rockets demand we submit the trade?

Lebron and Melo need to decide today or tomorrow or it might really handcuff Dell

[PelsFan2313]

Yeah, it did change. So, this would mean no more Withey or Babbitt.

Personally, I would rather they attach Ajinca than Withey. Or, the dream scenario (other than moving Gordon) is that they find a team that wants two of our free agents. All they would need to do is sign and trade those guys for a total of 4.4 mil or more, add Ely to Houston and we keep everybody, plus our Bird Rights, MLE, BAE, etc.

I just wonder how much Lebron and Melo are holding things up with talks. It would suck if they don't announce until the 9th or 10th. Ideally, we turn in the Asik trade after a couple of moves, but what if the league is at a standstill on the 10th still and the Rockets demand we submit the trade?

Lebron and Melo need to decide today or tomorrow or it might really handcuff Dell

Especially if Bosh to the Rockets is an evolving thing...though that may hinge on LeBron's decision or some kind of insider information.

[Mythrol]

If I'm not mistaken the date the trade will go through is already posted. I think it was the 13th. I assume the Pels and Rockets discussed this before agreeing to the trade and determined the latest possible time that the trade could be posted. I'm sure it's in one of the long trade threads if someone wants to dig through.

Edit:

Here we go. Found it:

"Omer Asik headed to New Orleans, per source. Paperwork done July 15.

— John Canzano (@johncanzanobft) [URL="https://twitter.com/johncanzanobft/statuses/484037053986766849"]July 1, 2014"

So it seems we have until the 15th when the paperwork gets filed.