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Thread: Would You Trade Jrue for...

  1. #101
    Banned Kurgan's Avatar
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    I still have to understand how a player that is only able to sit on a bench is better than anyone at all. And that is the only thing rose has been able to do in years.

  2. #102
    Financially he is still making the team money (jersey sales and so on). Should be interesting to see his return (not a Rose lover, and wouldn't build my team around him pre injury).
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by UNO Gracias View Post
    not a Rose lover
    Don't be a lemon.

  4. #104
    U-L-M...Geaux Hawks Geaux djpaul89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    Lillard and Irving are only better offensive players than Jrue. If that's what you value highly for a PG, fine. No problem with putting them above them. But the gap between them is minimal at best.
    Was just about to comment on this. It seems to me that those who rate Jrue on the lower end (outside top 10) place a higher value on being offensively dynamic. To each his own I suppose, especially if defensive value is acknowledged and duly credited. But I'd bet that a lot of media heads and casual NBA fans who trash Jrue and flat out discredit/diminish his All-Star label ignore defensive value altogether. Just like those who say Jabari Parker will be the greatest innovation since sliced bread. Check out some of the comments in that Jimmy Smith article...think I saw a couple say things along the lines of him having a "poor" season and even deeming it a fail...smh.

    Anyway, this thread made me think about how frivolous vacuum rankings are. Team fit should be considered. For instance, in terms of being an offensive #1 or 2 option, yes Lilliard and Kyrie would be better. But for our team, with Davis being the offensive breadwinner and another great ball handler and creator in Reke, we don't need dynamic scoring from the point. Someone who can be a threat off the ball, facilitate well, contribute with rebounding, and not be a liability on either end is gravy. Jrue provides that which is why I love him on this team going forward.

    Jrue's major-ish offensive shortcomings are with turnovers and efficiency, and even then he's still what you'd consider a good offensive player at worst with great defense. Whereas guys like Lilliard and Kyrie are great on offense but perhaps average at best on defense. IMO, Jrue gives more of an overall contribution to winning basketball, especially in an appropriate role like he is in here.

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  5. #105
    I've watched all Jrue defensives plays from last year and he's overrated in that area. He's an above average defender.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I've watched all Jrue defensives plays from last year and he's overrated in that area. He's an above average defender.
    Curious as to your specific analysis when watching. What you liked, didnt liked, etc.
    @mcnamara247

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Curious as to your specific analysis when watching. What you liked, didnt liked, etc.
    Was surprised how much he was beat in iso situations given his laterally quickness. I really was expecting a lock down guy on the perimeter. He tend to bite on the ball handlers first movement putting himself in bad situations and he didn't recover nearly as well as his reputation would lead you to believe. Guys were really able to beat him and get to the basket or create space for their jumpers. Not even the Westbrooks of the world. In PNR he was about average in fighting through screens and getting back in position.

    I like the fact that he can hound the ball far from the basket and can recover when he's beat. Most defenders struggle early in the position and far from the basket Jrue does a great job picking up his assignment early and around halfcourt.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 06-25-2014 at 05:27 PM.

  8. #108
    Saint Pelican of Mile High Contributor DefensiveMind's Avatar
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    Jrue Holiday 14th or 15th best PG in the NBA, above average defender.

    Chris Paul, below average defender, best PG in the league.

    Hmmm ok.


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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by DefensiveMind View Post
    Jrue Holiday 14th or 15th best PG in the NBA, above average defender.

    Chris Paul, below average defender, best PG in the league.

    Hmmm ok.


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    Not sure what your point is, but honestly I was shocked how mediocre Holiday was and how bad Paul was on defense. Much more so with Paul. People just walked pass him a lot in ISO situations and he didn't recover well in PNR situations. This is a guy who makes all-NBA defensives teams. I was disappointed with Jrue, but he's way better than Chris.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Was surprised how much he was beat in iso situations given his laterally quickness. I really was expecting a lock down guy on the perimeter. He tend to bite on the ball handlers first movement putting himself in bad situations and he didn't recover nearly as well as his reputation would lead you to believe. Guys were really able to beat him and get to the basket or create space for their jumpers. Not even the Westbrooks of the world. In PNR he was about average in fighting through screens and getting back in position.

    I like the fact that he can hound the ball far from the basket and can recover when he's beat. Most defenders struggle early in the position and far from the basket Jrue does a great job picking up his assignment early and around halfcourt.
    How about team defense, rotations, etc.

    I think people focus a lot of on ball defense, but great defense is all about playing great team defense. Does he miss rotations or blow assignments? How much space does he give to his man off the ball - too much, not enough to help, etc.

    I agree that he is not Patrick Beverely type of hound. Cant be because he actually has to do something on the offensive end. But I think, overall, he is a top 5-7 defensive PG in this league when you factor in everything that matters on the defensive end. And I think that we see improvement as he continues to get comfortable in the system. That is the biggest X-factor when I go back and watch the tape - I gotta remember that these guys have pretty much never played with each other and for Reke and Holiday, they are learning two new systems.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I've watched all Jrue defensives plays from last year and he's overrated in that area. He's an above average defender.
    I have to disagree, as far as point guards go his defense is elite, top 5, ive seen him mam handle irving and rose. Can u name 5 better defensive point guards than him?

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    How about team defense, rotations, etc.

    I think people focus a lot of on ball defense, but great defense is all about playing great team defense. Does he miss rotations or blow assignments? How much space does he give to his man off the ball - too much, not enough to help, etc.

    I agree that he is not Patrick Beverely type of hound. Cant be because he actually has to do something on the offensive end. But I think, overall, he is a top 5-7 defensive PG in this league when you factor in everything that matters on the defensive end. And I think that we see improvement as he continues to get comfortable in the system. That is the biggest X-factor when I go back and watch the tape - I gotta remember that these guys have pretty much never played with each other and for Reke and Holiday, they are learning two new systems.
    Couldn't be more true. The Pelicans and many other teams get called for illegal defense cause they are playing a "pack-line" defense. Since the best post defense is ball pressure- the man guarding the ball is to meet the ball carrier high and get in his grill. He is Expected to get beat (who doesn't when that close) cause the whole team is extremely sagging whereas already in help position. This leads to a charge, blocking call, contested shot, pass ect. Everyone sags and whoever is guarding the man with the ball is supposed to get so close to the man he can't shoot, look inside, or even breathe. We did this with Holliday a lot. Many times we simply wanted to make the guard go a certain way.

    Biggest problem playing that defense is recovering after helping cause if you run out to your man you can't run in a line.....cause he will be gone to the goal...... the defender must run towards the goal- then to the direction of their man; ensuring a direct path is prohibited.


    I'd like to see Jrue go

    16 ppg
    9 assists
    2 steals

    with minimal tunr-overs

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