Anderson for Monroe ?

[MichaelMcNamara]

I know how you feel, sh______ on blake was my job for the past few years, but you cant deny it when a guy makes a jump. Refusing to change an opinion with new, pertinent information is either a function of insanity or stupidity.

Two years ago, I said that when you factor in contract, I would take Ryno over him. That is how I felt about him. Now I am defending him as best PF in the league. I hate being wrong, but I don't mind admitting it when I am.

[Mythrol]

I think there is some confusion. I never said he was trash. I said he'd be in my argument for top 3 PF in the league. I am making my arguments based on him being the best PF in the league, which he is not. Still a good player. But if I'm building my team I'm not calling his name 1st st the PF list.

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[MichaelMcNamara]

I think there is some confusion. I never said he was trash. I said he'd be in my argument for top 3 PF in the league. I am making my arguments based on him being the best PF in the league, which he is not. Still a good player. But if I'm building my team I'm not calling his name 1st st the PF list.

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Okay, now that we are clear - who was a better PF last year and why?

[da ThRONe]

Griffin is the superior defender to Love so I don't think it's that close. If anything it's a discussion of Aldridge or Love.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Just based on this past season, I would have ranked them:

1. Griffin
2. Love
3. Dirk
4. Aldridge
5. AD

And Duncan would crack that list if he got the minutes that other guys do. If its one game for all the marbles tomorrow night, I might even take Duncan 1st. Still.

[Mythrol]

Okay, now that we are clear - who was a better PF last year and why?

Love and AD. Even if you discredit Love for defense (which is wrong) AD's case is clear when you look at the numbers on both sides. But again, I don't care about Blake enough to have the argument. I'd rather talk about the PJ Tucker Nut punch on him.

Edit: I didn't think about Dirk. I might put him there. Dude was a monster last year.

[BallSoHard]

I don't understand how the argument is shifting from cp3 made him better to.. His stats are worse with cp3 (aka declining since his rookie year)???????

[NMThreeMVP]

I don't understand how the argument is shifting from cp3 made him better to.. His stats are worse with cp3 (aka declining since his rookie year)???????

ding ding ding.... Winner winner chicken dinner!

[Pelicantoo]

Griffin is the superior defender to Love so I don't think it's that close. If anything it's a discussion of Aldridge or Love.

Im guessing you mean LA or Griffin?

[Writhe]

Yes please. We don't need a guy to take minutes away from AD at his favorite position, the 4. AD isn't comfortable being the biggest man on the court with Anderson next to him. I think the decision is simple. Let's do it.

Honestly though, i'd ideally like to see anderson be moved with EG so we don't get nothing back.

[HornetGuru]

Yes please. We don't need a guy to take minutes away from AD at his favorite position, the 4. AD isn't comfortable being the biggest man on the court with Anderson next to him. I think the decision is simple. Let's do it.

Honestly though, i'd ideally like to see anderson be moved with EG so we don't get nothing back.

i love ryno, but if we could use him to shed gordon's contract and possibly land monroe AND 1 of parsons or gordon hayward i do it without blinking.

[tyler]

I don't understand how the argument is shifting from cp3 made him better to.. His stats are worse with cp3 (aka declining since his rookie year)???????

And guess what he still the best Point Guard in the league

[Jabberwalker]

Yes please. We don't need a guy to take minutes away from AD at his favorite position, the 4. AD isn't comfortable being the biggest man on the court with Anderson next to him. I think the decision is simple. Let's do it.

Honestly though, i'd ideally like to see anderson be moved with EG so we don't get nothing back.

sauce?

[UNO Gracias]

Attachment 5575

Sorry don't know how to enlarge it.

That's what she said.

[UNO Gracias]

So in conclusion, no to Monroe (for more than $11 mil), yes to Griffin being the best pf in the game today, maybe to AD being a 5, but he is definitely not the 3rd best pf yet....what else is going on in this thread?

[kclaboy504]

sorry but if its a trade that includes Gordon with ryno for Monroe straight up? That is a no brainer imo. I know ryno is loved on this board but Id bet the house that if that deal is on table dell does it. Now what hes worth is another question. does he take hometown discount? I hope so cause he is not a max contract level player, BUT as BSH pointed out most of the max guys today aren't worth it.

[HornetGuru]

sorry but if its a trade that includes Gordon with ryno for Monroe straight up? That is a no brainer imo. I know ryno is loved on this board but Id bet the house that if that deal is on table dell does it. Now what hes worth is another question. does he take hometown discount? I hope so cause he is not a max contract level player, BUT as BSH pointed out most of the max guys today aren't worth it.

agree 100%

gives the pistons a forward that can shoot next to smith and drummond and a starting SG

for us it's a no brainer, we no longer have 2 players fighting for PF minutes, get a center, and have the money to get parsons or hayward, 2 SF's who would be perfect on our team.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

That's what she said.

LOL

[THRILLHOUSE]

I have a feeling that Monroe on a max contract would immediately become Okafor 2.0 (or basically a healthy Gordon 2.0): solid player that is overpaid by about 20-30%. With his having the early termination option, I suspect that Gordon is going to play 70-75 games this season, and at a level closer to his LAC years than these past few. And lets not forget how terrible the SG talent is in the NBA right now. If you think of Gordon as an expiring contract, I think many would shy from an EG/Ryno for Monroe on a max contract trade. If it meant that we could get Parsons, then yeah, do it. But I think Houston matches any offer, even a max (their pitch to Howard was based heavily on the owner's willingness to pay the tax). I'm a bit nervous about playing Hayward along with Jrue/Reke/AD/Monroe given that he fell off so badly with his 3pt shot last season. I don't think any other FA SF is worth more than the MLE, so you're kind of missing out on the benefit of the additional 14/15 cap space unless you want to take on a bad contract for a draft pick.

[kclaboy504]

agree 100%

gives the pistons a forward that can shoot next to smith and drummond and a starting SG

for us it's a no brainer, we no longer have 2 players fighting for PF minutes, get a center, and have the money to get parsons or hayward, 2 SF's who would be perfect on our team.

I absolutely agree. Id be very excited to add Monroe to this team for the right price. 12-14 per year would be ok imo.

[Mythrol]

agree 100%

gives the pistons a forward that can shoot next to smith and drummond and a starting SG

for us it's a no brainer, we no longer have 2 players fighting for PF minutes, get a center, and have the money to get parsons or hayward, 2 SF's who would be perfect on our team.

We're AD and Ryno fighting for minutes? before Ryno's injury they were starting together. they both averaged between 35-36 minutes for the year.

also, the odds of us getting Parsons decrease dramatically if we don't have Ryno as a trade piece. I don't know why your want Hayward because he doesn't fit (ball dominate SF who can't shoot the 3) but Utah isn't going to let him just walk for nothing.

[Kurgan]

I can't really remember a thread that stayed IT lately

[greewe]

Sorry for the crazy amount of blank space that is about to follow--I can't figure out how to get rid of it.

Lets try to have some objectivity. He has a good chance of getting there, but he is not there yet.

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	MP	PER	TS%	eFG%	FTr	3PAr	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg	OWS	DWS	WS	WS/48
1	Anthony Davis	2013-14	20	67	2358	26.5	.582	.520	.438	.009	10.0	23.3	16.6	8.0	2.0	6.7	8.3	25.2	119	104	7.2	3.2	10.4	.212
2	Blake Griffin	2013-14	24	80	2863	23.9	.583	.533	.496	.032	7.7	21.2	14.7	19.2	1.6	1.4	11.9	29.0	114	103	8.1	4.1	12.2	.205

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 6/17/2014.

Griffin is clearly a better passer, and gets to the line at a better rate. AD is the better rim protector, turns the ball over less, and has a slight rebounding edge. AD had a better PER and WS/48, despite a lower usage rate.

Love is clearly a better player on the offensive end, but is a liability on defense. I know AD isn't an elite defender yet, but he's certainly not a liability on that end.

I don't have time right now to compare to Duncan, Dirk, LA, etc. They may very well have outperformed AD this past season.

Just comparing to Love and Griffin, I think you can make a reasonable argument that AD is already slightly better than those two without being a homer. Not saying he's head and shoulders above those guys (I personally think it's a wash, with each of those three guys having certain skills that the other two don't have), but it's not that crazy to believe that AD's sophomore season was better.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I love stats as much as the next person, but AD was not one of the top 5 or 6 players in the NBA this year, despite what his PER would tell you. And I know people dont like to hear this, but Anthony Davis is not a good defensive player. Not yet. I know the blocks and steals are impressive, but those are 4 plays a game. He is on defense for about 80 possessions. If you watch carefully, he made more mistakes on that end that any Pelican this season. Which is understandable, because he was a 20 year old.

But this idea that AD is a good defender is one that the stats tell us, but the video tells a different story. In 2-4 years, I think he will be the best defensive big in the league, but last year, I struggle to even call him an average defender.

(Ducks and covers)

[greewe]

I love stats as much as the next person, but AD was not one of the top 5 or 6 players in the NBA this year, despite what his PER would tell you. And I know people dont like to hear this, but Anthony Davis is not a good defensive player. Not yet. I know the blocks and steals are impressive, but those are 4 plays a game. He is on defense for about 80 possessions. If you watch carefully, he made more mistakes on that end that any Pelican this season. Which is understandable, because he was a 20 year old.

But this idea that AD is a good defender is one that the stats tell us, but the video tells a different story. In 2-4 years, I think he will be the best defensive big in the league, but last year, I struggle to even call him an average defender.

(Ducks and covers)

I see what you're saying, but the concept of "rim protection" is more than 3 possessions per game. Knowing that AD is around the corner is a deterrent that can't be captured with stats. The Pelicans averaged 92.2 defensive possessions per game. AD played 35.2 MPG out of the team's 48 MPG (73.3%), so let's say he played 67 defensive possessions per game (73% of 92.2 team possessions). If he blocks 3 shots and alters 5 shots, impacting 8 of the 67 possessions that he's on the floor, that's pretty significant. It's easy to say the blocks are just 3 plays a game, but I think it's more than that.

I agree with you that he has a LONG way to go before becoming an elite defender. However, I do think you're underrating his rim protection.