| . |
 |
I think looking at the Spurs model and trying to copy the way they do things is a fools game. Cant duplicate it until you have built up a core and a reputation for 10 years. Not like they had Duncan on a discount in his prime. When the guys are in their prime and havent won a title yet, you arent getting them to take discounts - especially for a franchise with no championship pedigree.Originally Posted by UNO Gracias
Gonna have to pay now, and the discounts will come down the line
@mcnamara247
My max for Monroe would be in the 12.5-13 range. That's an acceptable amount of over compensation given where I have him currently rated.
Year after year, you look at the players who sign for below market value in free agency and it is with contending teams. You dont see Milwaukee getting someone on a bargain. Contenders get guys on discounts and/or they get buyout guys, etc. Contenders also resign their own players on a discount. I mean, what would Ibaka be getting on the open market?
You show the league you can win and you get guys at below market prices. You never have guys refusing to go to your team in a trade, so that avenue is always open. Get to that level and things open up to you that are not open when you are a non contender
I agree, but he already turned down 4yr/50mil so I don't think he takes that
never assume
I'm with MM if he takes a discount I'm all for it but I like. Detroit will move him, he and Drummond are awful defensively together. Drummond and Josh Smith would pair much better and why would they want Anderson when they would still have a problem with Smith at the 3. He was not just bad offensively at 3 but horrible defensively and the 3 so having him run around chasing SF's wold take away their paint protection.
The let him turn us down. No way he warrants that kind of cash. I would pay top Dollar for Marc Gasol, but not for Monroe.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Again Cleveland and Toronto were winning with Superstars and nobody took less to go there. Lets see if players line up to go to Charlotte, Indiana, or Toronto at below market value this offseason.
my take is lets actually wait till Davis becomes an mvp caliber player and until we actually become title contender to talk about players taking pay cuts to come here
Cleveland got Shaq to come there. Amare was willing to come there but Cleveland did not want to part with JJ Hickson. Those guys don't go to a regular Cleveland team.
I don't see Charlotte or Toronto as contenders. Indy either, really. I am talking about the level Miami, OKC, SA, and LAC were perceived to be on this year before the season started. You get to that level and more avenues are open to you. AD will have to get to the Lebron and KD level for this to happen, but I think he will get there. When he does, things will open up a bit more. And its not just FA's. Again, it is getting other players to tell their team that they want to be traded to your team or signing your own guys at a bit of a discount because they want to play with one of the best players in the league.
Would they take EG?
do you think there would be any shot at further compensation from detroit? even as bad gordon's contract is, Ryno & Gordon for Monroe still seems like we should get somethin else back like a future pick or something
True story about players taking pay cuts. We havent proven anything for a player to take a pay cut to come here. The Spurs, and the Pistons got lucky in that players they won titles weren't as desired as the player who we will need to win a title. Even if AD becomes an all world talent we will still need a solid sf and a solid center, and those positions will command top dollar, so yeah...we will have to start drafting better, and we will have to start winning more to get those players to come here on a discount.
I think the Spurs showed how valuable it is to have shooters and you really cant have too many. I would pass on this
SIGN A SF
Thats true. They had mediocre- avg. centers (if you are calling Duncan a 4, and if you consider Duncan a 5 they had mediocre 4's), but they always had shooters. More reason to pass on Monroe.
Well he rebounds better than Ryno. Enough to justify paying him almost twice the salary?
Shaq really. Over the hill out of shape Shaq is that really the best you could do. LOL
The Amar'e trade was speculation. We don't know if Amar'e wanted to be traded to Cleveland. What we do know is when he was a FA he went to the Knicks.
Lets not be prisoners of the moment. Spurs lost to Heat last year and the Thunder the year before. Not like their way is the only way to do it. And its not like their style is just as easy to reproduce as just throwing good shooters and willing passers on the court. Gotta build the best team you can fitting your superstar. If Duncan was in his prime, they wouldn't have built this way. The Spurs of the early-mid 2000s looked nothing like the 2014 Spurs.
And what big names got traded to Cleveland or almost traded to Cleveland in the interim?
It is undeniable that they had more options with Lebron than without him. They happened to target the wrong guys in my opinion, but they had options that they haven't had since.
If gives you more options, but more options don't guarantee that you are going to get it right. Don't confuse one argument for the other.
Yeah I wouldn't give Monroe a max deal. I don't think he's worth that much not mention he will really be a gloried role player next to AD. I would maybe give him a deal similar to Ryno's. But I can't fathom giving a player a max deal when he's really only going to average 14 points 8 rebounds and maybe a little over one block a game next to AD.
There is no prisoner of the moment vibe here. You honestly don't need a dominant center to win a title. You need shooters, and you need guys who can create. You also need a franchise player. Lucky for us we have 1 of those 3.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2014.html mediocre - avg. 5, shooters all over
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2007.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2005.html mediocre 5, shooters all over.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2003.html David Robinson and Kevin Willis at the 5, amazing talent everywhere.
For all intents and purposes, they are the model to follow..until AD starts befriending other Super Stars and has them come join him down here. The Spurs model requires skill in scouting, and skill in coaching. I am not saying we don't have those things, but we need to get better at both.
Question: when do we actually start seeing moves being made? (is there is a date for when free agency begins or what)
If you do Monroe (at a max) for Gordon and Ryno, you are about 14 mil under the cap. Could get to about 20 mil under next year. If you can land a Parsons or a Butler or a Leonard, it makes it well worth overpaying him, but then Benson would have to be willing to go into the tax in 2016. Cant avoid it with AD's monster raise coming.
If it don't bother him, it don't bother me, but giving Monroe a deal like that means you are paying him and AD close to 37 mil in 2016-17 and 2017-18
LAC had two franchise players (arguably) and a ton of shooters. Its not that simple. Rockets, same thing.
Spurs were a team that had a chemistry and cohesion you can only get with time. Trying to copy them (the 2014 version) would be foolish IMO, unless you are willing to wait 8-10 years for it all to gel just right.
I agree. He is not that much better. I question how good a fit he is if we do intend to become a more uptempo team. His P&R defense is not that good either. I don't think he improves us enough to warrant a max contract and a player like Anderson who is on a very good contract.
LAC have a franchise pg who chokes up in big games, and a franchise dunker. Not what the Spurs have in Parker and Duncan. Moving forward over the next 3 years I would actually take Parker and Duncan over what LA has...and I bet LA would too.
Look at those Spurs teams that won titles, most of the guys outside of the big 3 were guns for hire brought in that season or the season prior. Our goal right now is to get AD to be a franchise player, get Jrue and and Reke getting to that Parker Manu level, and decking out team out with more Morrows and Andersons and fewer Gordons and Rivers. Heck pick up more of your PJ Tuckers types I suppose, just get stable players as opposed to caliber we have masquerading as NBA players here.
We also would need an effective system. Monty should have experience, and an understanding of this as he was working under Pops. You don't need amazing talent across the board, you need to know how to best use your talent.
We both agree, Monroe at such a high price is unnecessary as paying that much for a center of his caliber is just outrageous in today's game.
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 06-16-2014 at 03:12 PM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote