last year's trade for Jrue Holiday was one-sided

[DefensiveMind]

Cap space is just one of the benefits of rookie contracts. There's the ability to match any deal after said contract is up. When Jrue deal is done he's a URFA he can go where ever he wants and what he can make will be higher because it's his 3rd contract. Rookie deals give teams the option retain a player an extra 3-5 years. This could be the difference between retaining a championship core or losing a major part of it.

Being able to over pay FAs is one of the benefit of having the majority of your core on rookie deals if a team wanted to go that route. It's the flexibility I always reference to. A team can afford to bring in vets to teach the young players the day to day in's and out's of being a professional athlete.

There's two sides to every coin, though. Lillard is going to make the all star team again and be able to receive the super max via the Derrick Rose rule. He'll be making 30-40 percent more than Jrue while providing maybe 10-15 percent more in production. This is the upside of the the young veteran approach. Yes, you can snag some diamonds in the draft and control them for 7-9 years but at what cost. There's a price to pay for drafting well. It's not a bad problem just a reality. Look at the decision that OKC had to make regarding Harden and to a lesser extent Indiana (George and Stephenson) if Jrue makes a leap during these next few years he will have merely justified his signing not set up himself up to be paid like a #1 option. There's a real chance we could have Jrue between the ages of 26-29 at a below market avg. contract, but no one ever discusses the thought process and the potential that lies in alternative approaches. Everyone just assumes it as fact that building through the draft is simply the only route to success. Even though no NBA champion has done it successfully in nearly a decade (2007 Spurs)

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[Blattman]

I've always be torn by this trade and it's not better nowadays. I mean people kept saying that the pels basically gave up Noel and Gary Harris for Jrue, but it doesn't make any sense. They gave up the number 6 in the 2013 draft, it could have been Noel, but also MCW, Burke, Steven Adams or Antetokoumpo. Same thing with this year pick, people speaks about Stauskas or Harris or McDermott, but what about Rodney Hood, James Young, Yusuf Nurkic, Dario Saric, Kyle Anderson, KJ MCDaniels ?

I mean is our actual core better going forward than something like Evans/Gordon/Davis/Lopez/Anderson/Rivers + Antetokoumpo/Nurkic or MCW/Hood or even Noel/Young ? This question seems very legitimate to me.

[HornetGuru]

There's two sides to every coin, though. Lillard is going to make the all star team again and be able to receive the super max via the Derrick Rose rule. He'll be making 30-40 percent more than Jrue while providing maybe 10-15 percent more in production. This is the upside of the the young veteran approach. Yes, you can snag some diamonds in the draft and control them for 7-9 years but at what cost. There's a price to pay for drafting well. It's not a bad problem just a reality. Look at the decision that OKC had to make regarding Harden and to a lesser extent Indiana (George and Stephenson) if Jrue makes a leap during these next few years he will have merely justified his signing not set up himself up to be paid like a #1 option. There's a real chance we could have Jrue between the ages of 26-29 at a below market avg. contract, but no one ever discusses the thought process and the potential that lies in alternative approaches. Everyone just assumes it as fact that building through the draft is simply the only route to success. Even though no NBA champion has done it successfully in nearly a decade (2007 Spurs)

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I wouldnt even say lillard is better than jrue, scoring yes but jrue is a ten times the defender lillard will ever be and is also a better passer and rebounder. Plus lillard has a much better supporting cast. Call me crazy but people get too caught up in the hype of offense. Its a 2 way game and theres nothing he cant do. He can drive, midrange, 3pt, great free throw shooter.

[Mythrol]

Cap space is just one of the benefits of rookie contracts. There's the ability to match any deal after said contract is up. When Jrue deal is done he's a URFA he can go where ever he wants and what he can make will be higher because it's his 3rd contract. Rookie deals give teams the option retain a player an extra 3-5 years. This could be the difference between retaining a championship core or losing a major part of it.

Being able to over pay FAs is one of the benefit of having the majority of your core on rookie deals if a team wanted to go that route. It's the flexibility I always reference to. A team can afford to bring in vets to teach the young players the day to day in's and out's of being a professional athlete.

Why wouldn't we have Jrue's Bird Rights? When his contract is up he will have been with the team for 4 years.

We will be able to offer him any contract he wants if he's earned it. Yes, he could sign with another team but it's not like having cap is going to help us keep him. At some point you have to expect you are good enough to keep players you want.

I think that's a downside to rookies. Much lower odds of signing vets to reasonable contracts because your team sucks. You think Deng is going to give Cleveland a discount?

Besides, this doesn't make the problem disappear. It just makes it happen a few years later. And even if you drafted amazingly, OKC has shown you can't keep them all. They drafted amazingly and still don't have a ring for it. They went up against a more veteran team and got taken to task. Heck look at what Dallas did to Miami their first year. Rookies are nice in theory, but if you want a true Contender, you don't want a team of rookies.

[JrueDat]

I've always be torn by this trade and it's not better nowadays. I mean people kept saying that the pels basically gave up Noel and Gary Harris for Jrue, but it doesn't make any sense. They gave up the number 6 in the 2013 draft, it could have been Noel, but also MCW, Burke, Steven Adams or Antetokoumpo. Same thing with this year pick, people speaks about Stauskas or Harris or McDermott, but what about Rodney Hood, James Young, Yusuf Nurkic, Dario Saric, Kyle Anderson, KJ MCDaniels ?

I mean is our actual core better going forward than something like Evans/Gordon/Davis/Lopez/Anderson/Rivers + Antetokoumpo/Nurkic or MCW/Hood or even Noel/Young ? This question seems very legitimate to me.

You have to question whether we would have been able to sign or even tried to sign Tyreke Evans if we would have went down that path. So I don't think you can include him in that hypothetical core.

I don't think he signs with us without Holiday. It was our teams full potential(Holiday/Gordon/Ryno/Davis) that pushed him over the edge I think.

I don't think we sign him because he only hurts our chances at Wiggins/Parker/Embiid. No doubt if we didn't make the move for Holiday we would have had our eyes set on a higher draft pick. Evans would have only hurt those chances.

[da ThRONe]

There's two sides to every coin, though. Lillard is going to make the all star team again and be able to receive the super max via the Derrick Rose rule. He'll be making 30-40 percent more than Jrue while providing maybe 10-15 percent more in production. This is the upside of the the young veteran approach. Yes, you can snag some diamonds in the draft and control them for 7-9 years but at what cost. There's a price to pay for drafting well. It's not a bad problem just a reality. Look at the decision that OKC had to make regarding Harden and to a lesser extent Indiana (George and Stephenson) if Jrue makes a leap during these next few years he will have merely justified his signing not set up himself up to be paid like a #1 option. There's a real chance we could have Jrue between the ages of 26-29 at a below market avg. contract, but no one ever discusses the thought process and the potential that lies in alternative approaches. Everyone just assumes it as fact that building through the draft is simply the only route to success. Even though no NBA champion has done it successfully in nearly a decade (2007 Spurs)

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I don't know if anybody in this discussion has said there's only one way. We are discussing what we believe are the most effective way to build a team given our situation and history of team building.

[RekeHavoc]

I've always be torn by this trade and it's not better nowadays. I mean people kept saying that the pels basically gave up Noel and Gary Harris for Jrue, but it doesn't make any sense. They gave up the number 6 in the 2013 draft, it could have been Noel, but also MCW, Burke, Steven Adams or Antetokoumpo. Same thing with this year pick, people speaks about Stauskas or Harris or McDermott, but what about Rodney Hood, James Young, Yusuf Nurkic, Dario Saric, Kyle Anderson, KJ MCDaniels ?

I mean is our actual core better going forward than something like Evans/Gordon/Davis/Lopez/Anderson/Rivers + Antetokoumpo/Nurkic or MCW/Hood or even Noel/Young ? This question seems very legitimate to me.

I don't think it's even close... I'd take Jrue over any combination of players. Don't like any of those guys particularly in the draft.

[Amakhosi002]

I haven't been posting for ages. And I debate this trade in my head every time I think about the Pelicans. This is water under the bridge, but Im going to try and outline my thoughts about it.

I remember, on the night (well, like at some ridiculous hour in morning when I was staying up to watch the draft) wishing we hadn't made the trade. And that is almost certainly just because I overrate bigs. They are my favourite players always, probably because its the position I play. Anyway, on to my thoughts now.

Here's something I've been thinking. I don't know if you guys follow Robert Mays (NFL writer on Grantland), but he was talking about the Rams drafting a DT to improve their defensive line even more, and whether that was a smart distribution of assets. He brought up an interesting point, and I don't know if this is too wishy washy, but that it is the issue of identity. With Noel and Davis as a pairing we could have had the potential to have the most insane rim defense. We could've gotten a huge buzz going around the league. Again, this is a pretty abstract point that depends on a few things.

Could Noel and Davis have played together? So the first thought is strength. They are both pretty slight (Davis is 220lb on wikipedia, and Noel is 201lb on draft express). And I can imagine they could've been bullied in the post by a bunch of Western Conference post-up guys (Z-Bo, Gasol (x2), Griffin, Lee, Duncan, Splitter, Love, Pekovic, Howard, Boogie). We know Davis is developing into an all-round defender, capable of switching onto quicker players and containing them one-on-one (Sidenote: Davis is awesome). I watched quite a bit of Noel at Kentucky, because in South Africa we get loads more NCAA basketball than NBA. And, at the college level, he was capable of doing a pretty good job switching on smaller players. I'd imagine he'd be decent at hedging, although that is not the best way to use a shot blocker (taking him away from the rim). I could envisage a Nets-style defense, full of switching, with these two. With Davis getting a bit bigger, and supposing Noel filled out his frame, they could have played together. Noel, offensively, would be DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler - alley oops, put backs, offensive rebounds etc.

But this all depends on skills translating to the NBA, Noel fulfilling his potential AND him recovering well (he relies on his explosive jumping ability to get blocks, and if his knee is not all good then he won't be able to do that). So despite how much I loved the idea of Davis and Noel playing together (This happens on every single Pels Association save I play on 2k14), I recognize it carried a large risk.

We'd have had a higher pick in this draft, I think. But we would not have cracked the top 5 with all the tanking this season. But the main thing that I didn't like about this trade is the loss of flexibility. On a BSS podcast with Erhassen he made a really good point: when you are looking to wheel and deal with your roster, the contracts you want to keep are all wanted, and the one you want to get rid of will be less desired. Look at our current situation with Gordon for details.

That all said, I totally get this trade. We got a proven player for two unproven players. It got some buzz going for the new name and branding. And Demps is doing what ownership is telling him to do, and that is to get a team that can compete now.

Hopefully I've been coherent and understandable.

[tdcreator]

I still think we could have gotten Jrue for the 6th pick by itself or with maybe another cheaper asset. Top 10 draft picks are still considered valuable even in a week draft. I think Demps was betting on us making the playoffs and the pick being close to 20 which wouldn't be much help to us. Before the season I thought we were making the playoffs, even up till Ryno and Jrue got hurt I had hope. Oh well time to move on.

[WisconsinHornet]

http://www.nola.com/pelicans/index.s...lack_of_d.html



NOLA.com writers... keep on cranking out the hits... /sarcasm

Articles like this gahbage make me appreciate BSS even more.

Our trade for Holiday was a bad one. Sorry but you guys keep parroting that he's an "All Star point guard" and that makes me want to shoot myself in the head. "All Star" in a diluted Conference doesn't mean a damn thing. Know who else was an "All Star"? Big Kat Jamal Magloire.

Holiday is barely a top 15 PG when healthy.

[WisconsinHornet]

I still think we could have gotten Jrue for the 6th pick by itself or with maybe another cheaper asset. Top 10 draft picks are still considered valuable even in a week draft. I think Demps was betting on us making the playoffs and the pick being close to 20 which wouldn't be much help to us. Before the season I thought we were making the playoffs, even up till Ryno and Jrue got hurt I had hope. Oh well time to move on.

When do we start holding Demps accountable for all the blunders he's made? For every savvy move he's made he's either negated it one year later (trading GV and RoLo to take on a top 10 worst contract in Evans) or had 2 bad moves to offset it.

Why did he have to overpay Evans by SO MUCH? Wasn't overpaying him by $2MM a year enough to pry him away from the basketball heaven that was Sacramento? Why do you have to overpay him by $5MM a year? Makes no damn sense. Dell has no concepts of the financial and trade aspects of players IMO.

[i am cow lolz]

Our trade for Holiday was a bad one. Sorry but you guys keep parroting that he's an "All Star point guard" and that makes me want to shoot myself in the head. "All Star" in a diluted Conference doesn't mean a damn thing. Know who else was an "All Star"? Big Kat Jamal Magloire.

Holiday is barely a top 15 PG when healthy.

Not many point guards are as good as Jrue on defense (only Rubio and Bledsoe have an argument) and he has a complete skillset. Saying he is barely a top 15 point guard when healthy is stupid. Definitely a top 10 point guard.

[bradael]

Our trade for Holiday was a bad one. Sorry but you guys keep parroting that he's an "All Star point guard" and that makes me want to shoot myself in the head. "All Star" in a diluted Conference doesn't mean a damn thing. Know who else was an "All Star"? Big Kat Jamal Magloire.

Holiday is barely a top 15 PG when healthy.

It depends how you want to define top 15 PG. I don't think Jrue is a guy who can carry a team. He somewhat did it in Philly, but that was the East. He's not a franchise player. However, I believe he's a very good #2/3 player. He's an elite on ball defender and a solid all around offensive player and can even play off the ball, which is great on this team considering that we have Tyreke. The league is littered with good scoring point guards, but very few of them can defend. I'm glad we have one of the best out there on that end of the floor.

When do we start holding Demps accountable for all the blunders he's made? For every savvy move he's made he's either negated it one year later (trading GV and RoLo to take on a top 10 worst contract in Evans) or had 2 bad moves to offset it.

Why did he have to overpay Evans by SO MUCH? Wasn't overpaying him by $2MM a year enough to pry him away from the basketball heaven that was Sacramento? Why do you have to overpay him by $5MM a year? Makes no damn sense. Dell has no concepts of the financial and trade aspects of players IMO.

Tyreke as a sixth man was definitely one of the top 10 overpaid contracts in the league. But with the way he played as a starter, his contract is a bargain. 20/6.5/5.5 on 50% shooting since the day he entered the starting line-up.. It remains to be seen how he plays going forward and what we do with Gordon to make room for Tyreke.

Cap space is just one of the benefits of rookie contracts. There's the ability to match any deal after said contract is up. When Jrue deal is done he's a URFA he can go where ever he wants and what he can make will be higher because it's his 3rd contract. Rookie deals give teams the option retain a player an extra 3-5 years. This could be the difference between retaining a championship core or losing a major part of it.

Being able to over pay FAs is one of the benefit of having the majority of your core on rookie deals if a team wanted to go that route. It's the flexibility I always reference to. A team can afford to bring in vets to teach the young players the day to day in's and out's of being a professional athlete.

I don't think it's smart business to build your team out of fear of what's going to happen 5 years down the line. If he leaves, he leaves. If not, you have cap space and presumably still Anthony Davis on your roster who almost any guard would want to play with.

[Eman5805]

Our trade for Holiday was a bad one. Sorry but you guys keep parroting that he's an "All Star point guard" and that makes me want to shoot myself in the head. "All Star" in a diluted Conference doesn't mean a damn thing. Know who else was an "All Star"? Big Kat Jamal Magloire.

Holiday is barely a top 15 PG when healthy.

Name the 15 or more PGs better than him, if you please.

[PELICANSFAN]

Tyreke as a sixth man was definitely one of the top 10 overpaid contracts in the league. But with the way he played as a starter, his contract is a bargain. 20/6.5/5.5 on 50% shooting since the day he entered the starting line-up.. It remains to be seen how he plays going forward and what we do with Gordon to make room for Tyreke.

Tyreke was a stud as a starter, but much of the stats were due to limited options. When you bring back Jrue and Ryan, those numbers will come down significantly. I think Demps' job should hinge on him moving Gordon. He looks pretty dumb now for letting GV and Lopez (especially Lopez) go for nothing in order to overpay Tyreke without unloading Gordon's contract.

[MichaelMcNamara]

The numbers will come down, but I dont believe the impact will. Watching the games for my Glory Days series, he was a beast in transition an created so much in the half court. Was much harder to contain when he actually had good players around him. I mean, he put up those end of season numbers with Babbitt and Ajinca on the court. Gonna be so much easier for him with Ryno and AD instead.

[MonsterMash]

I still think we could have gotten Jrue for the 6th pick by itself or with maybe another cheaper asset. Top 10 draft picks are still considered valuable even in a week draft. I think Demps was betting on us making the playoffs and the pick being close to 20 which wouldn't be much help to us. Before the season I thought we were making the playoffs, even up till Ryno and Jrue got hurt I had hope. Oh well time to move on.

I think Demps was betting on the fact that if we 'didn't' make the playoffs, he wouldn't be around to use that 2014 pick. The injuries saved him, but this is the potential problem with owners issuing "win now" mandates.

[da ThRONe]

There's operating out of fear then there's limiting the things that are out of your control. Again it's certainly not "fool proof", but it's an added advantage to building via the draft.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Players don't leave good teams when the team wants to keep them. You are betting on yourself to be a good team in 4 yrs. With AD, I like those odds


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[WhoDatPelican]

Name the 15 or more PGs better than him, if you please.

Just for shiggles i am gonna try
Paul
Curry
Westbrook
Rose ...when healthy
(i guess from this point you could say)
Parker
Williams ( )
Rondo ()
Lillard

That's all i got....
Honestly, I'd take Jrue over quite a few of what i just listed so i dunno.
I feel like people greatly undervalue him. His defense is pretty damn solid and he has one of -- if not the -- smoothest Jumpers on the team.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Paul curry Westbrook Parker all not even debatable

After that, I think he is in the convo with anyone. Just depends on your flavor of PG. For instance, I would personally take him over guys like Lillard or Kyrie every day of the week, but I understand others who disagree


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[WhoDatPelican]

Paul curry Westbrook Parker all not even debatable

After that, I think he is in the convo with anyone. Just depends on your flavor of PG. For instance, I would personally take him over guys like Lillard or Kyrie every day of the week, but I understand others who disagree
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Yea, call me crazy but i take Jrue over Williams, Rondo, Lillard (who i love honestly), Irving, Lawson.
So, if you think about it like that, a top 8 PG(edit: and the rights to d league god Pierre Jackson) for a 6th and a 10th ? Seems legit.

**Had to edit to include the rights Pierre Jackson.. He is somewhere out there feeling disrespected right now.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Again, I dont think anybody is bashing this deal if Gordon isnt on the roster. I think people are a little freaked out that our roster appears somewhat set because of lack of cap space, but if Gordon isn't here, everybody would be so pumped about this team.

You dont compound mistakes. Dell made a huge one by matching Gordon, but you dont miss out on opportunities to get Jrue and Evans because of a past error. Once Gordon is gone, the picture will look so much clearer, and nobody will wish Tyreke or Jrue were anywhere else but here

[djpaul89]

Can't wait for next season and everyone to get back healthy so Jrue and Tyreke can vindicate themselves to the critics. I think the Jrue undervaluers are suffering from a severe case of out of sight, out of mind syndrome and the Tyreke undervaluers may be hung up on the contract and being too "one-dimensional." But that dimension is so elite that when he's on, it still can't be stopped. And even when it's not, he can still consistently stuff the stat sheet and impact the game (unlike Gordon). All of his breakout games this season make his contract look very justifiable if not underpaid, then it also descends. I also watch them and agree more and more with the narrative that Tyreke improving his jumper is not some absolute top priority. Just needs to work on refining his current game and offensive awareness/decision-making so that he won't be so inconsistent.

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[Mythrol]

When do we start holding Demps accountable for all the blunders he's made? For every savvy move he's made he's either negated it one year later (trading GV and RoLo to take on a top 10 worst contract in Evans) or had 2 bad moves to offset it.

Why did he have to overpay Evans by SO MUCH? Wasn't overpaying him by $2MM a year enough to pry him away from the basketball heaven that was Sacramento? Why do you have to overpay him by $5MM a year? Makes no damn sense. Dell has no concepts of the financial and trade aspects of players IMO.

Evans isn't overpaid by 5M. It was known at the times that the Kings didn't want to go over 10M for him. He made 11.7M and decreases yearly. To me that is lower than your 2M/yr overpay. With the expected cap increases I don't think it's even overpaying. And it's no where near a top 10 worst contract.