last year's trade for Jrue Holiday was one-sided

[da ThRONe]

I mean the only people that you named that you could argue contributed were Olynyk and Alphabet. And even then they were roll players at best. I thought we were looking for clear cut starters or all - stars through the draft that would have helped us had we gone that route. Outside Alphabet I don't really see any of those players being anything more than roll players. If anything you just helped me make my point

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These were some of the rookies this year that you left off. The discussion is about players contributing on their rookie deals not just as rookies. I gave you a chance to define contributing so we are on the same page. However the names I gave all give their respective teams quality mins at some point in the season. And those weren't all of them and that are just the rookies not even the 2nd and 3rd year players.

[Ludiculous]

These were some of the rookies this year that you left off. The discussion is about players contributing on their rookie deals. I gave you a chance to define contributing so we are on the same page.

I certainly don't count Snell as contributing. Alphabet and Olynyk are the only ones that put up semi decent stats for roll players. But I was talking about finding starters to put next to AD which was what you have been arguing all across this forum to do. Find the pieces we need through the draft. So are any of those pieces starting material. Outside of Alphabet who is incredibly raw. No.

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[da ThRONe]

I certainly don't count Snell as contributing. Alphabet and Olynyk are the only ones that put up semi decent stats for roll players. But I was talking about finding starters to put next to AD which was what you have been arguing all across this forum to do. Find the pieces we need through the draft. So are any of those pieces starting material. Outside of Alphabet who is incredibly raw. No.

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Well it all comes down to a matter of opinions. I think Trey Burke will be a star in this league. I loved Adams and he has given a title contender some sparks from time to time. I think Hardaway has shown and ability to shoot the ball to be a quality floor spacer and finisher at the rim to warrant being a starter for a quality team. Along with Carter-Williams, Oladipo, and Antetokounmpo. The jury is still out on guys like Porter, Len, Larkin, McCollum and Noel. Way too early for this class, but again this is from one of the lowest ranked draft classes in recent memory.

[UNO Gracias]

I think a lot of the rookies from this past season have nice careers ahead of them and they showed it this year. Burke, Olidipo, Alphabet, Adams, McCullom came on late. There is some fun talent that we saw, and then there were guys who were injured that we will see next year. I see no reason to say that this draft won't produce all stars in the future. Remember, Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson were once all stars.

[Ludiculous]

I think a lot of the rookies from this past season have nice careers ahead of them and they showed it this year. Burke, Olidipo, Alphabet, Adams, McCullom came on late. There is some fun talent that we saw, and then there were guys who were injured that we will see next year. I see no reason to say that this draft won't produce all stars in the future. Remember, Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson were once all stars.

Maybe I'm just a negative person but the only two I see being all stars are alphabet and oladipo. That's just me though.

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[bradael]

Maybe I'm just a negative person but the only two I see being all stars are alphabet and oladipo. That's just me though.

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I don't think you're being negative. Most saw it as a very weak draft well before they were drafted. And then the performances pretty much backed it up so far. A lot can still change, but I think most of the people who feel it has a lot of star potential are just looking at the 2012-13 NCAA season in a vacuum where guys like Burke were overhyped based off weak competition.

[UNO Gracias]

Or, like you said, they are rookies, and most of them aren't even 20 yet. Too early to call this class a bust yet.

[Mythrol]

Or, like you said, they are rookies, and most of them aren't even 20 yet. Too early to call this class a bust yet.

I think you mean there's a single one that's under 20. And most are at least 21.

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[HornetGuru]

What people are forgetting is if we didn't have the insane injuries we had we wouldnt have been in the lottery.

[NMThreeMVP]

Couldn't we also consider, based on age and player development, Anthony Davis and Darius Miller our 2012 rookies, Austin Rivers and Jeff Withey our 2013 rookies, and Pierre Jackson (a euro/D-League stash) our 2014 rookie???

We've added 5 rookies to our team since 2012. Isn't that building through the draft???!?!???!?????

We've added 5 rookies in 3 yrs, and we've got a dozen players 26 yrs old and younger on our roster!!

(Sometimes fellas... You gotta know when you've loss a debate)

[NMThreeMVP]

Are we sure Otto Porter Jr. Is better than Darius Miller?
Are we sure Alex Len is better than Jeff Withey?
Are we sure Ben McClemore is better than Austin Rivers?
Are we sure Tyler Ennis is better than Pierre Jackson?

....should I put away my shovel?

[UNO Gracias]

It's too early to tell how these guys will turn out (that's all I'm saying).

[BallSoHard]

What people are forgetting is if we didn't have the insane injuries we had we wouldnt have been in the lottery.

[IamQuailman]

We just need to get an elite medical staff, like Phoenix's

[Nola7]

The best argument against the trade (and one no writer at NOLA.com ever uses) is what else the Pelicans could have done with those picks. And not the "having a late lottery pick in the 'greatest draft'" sad trope.

Instead of trading away Noel the Pelicans were going to pick a point guard. Every report we've ever read says that is Trey Burke.

Determining what the team does with cap space last summer is difficult. Without the Jrue trade the Pelicans would have ~$13M in cap space while retaining both Lopez and Vasquez. Let's say they still sign Tyreke Evans to the same deal, but the S&T is just the two teams (Vasquez for Evans). The only reason Lopez was included was to make the salaries match, Portland did not add much to the value Sacramento received (two second round picks, one of which is a swap right).

In that scenario the Pelicans have...

Burke/Roberts/Rivers (Evans?)
Gordon/Evans/Rivers
Miller/Thomas
Davis/Anderson
Lopez/Smith

~$3.3M in cap space
Room Exception

Hypothetically the team can still do the rest of what they did last summer (re-sign Aminu, sign Stiemsma and Morrow). The big difference is what happens this year. In this scenario the team has their pick (almost certainly still in the lottery), Lopez still under contract, and nearly $10M in cap space.

Gordon, Evans, Anderson, Davis, Lopez, Burke, Rivers all under contract.
About $10M in cap space (some of which would be occupied if the team used their 1st Round Pick)
2014 First Round Draft Pick
Now, with those assets, can you build a better team than...

Gordon, Evans, Holiday, Anderson, Davis, Rivers, Ajinca, Withey all under contract
About $6.5M in cap space

There is a realistic argument to be had both directions here. One can argue that Robin Lopez is an indirect cost of the Jrue Holiday trade (as the cap space eliminated necessitated Lopez outgoing in the Evans S&T). With the concerns on this team about having a 20-25 MPG center, having that hole filled is a net positive. However, are we sure that Trey Burke is a starting caliber PG? The argument against the Jrue Holiday trade, rationally, should not be that two draft picks are more valuable than Jrue Holiday. It should be that a tradeable asset (this year's 1st Round Pick) and the additional cap space could be more valuable, especially if Robin Lopez is still on the team.

GREAT POST

[NMThreeMVP]

Latest ESPN Insider article
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...s/refresh/true

As many as half the lottery picks are rumored to be for sale and teams are looking for "young vets".

I think it seems like history will definitely look favorably on the Pelicans trade for Jrue Holiday.