Reading things like. "Nobody else on this team is even close to All-Star level", I know some debates are futile. Just gonna have to wait until next season for people to remember how good these guys really are when healthy
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Reading things like. "Nobody else on this team is even close to All-Star level", I know some debates are futile. Just gonna have to wait until next season for people to remember how good these guys really are when healthy
@mcnamara247
I'm trying to read through this exchange and I'm a little confused by the comment. I just want to make sure I understand this. Are you saying you think Leonard will be a no. 1 option but AD won't?Originally Posted by da ThRONe
What I think a lot of people are forgetting is how hard it is to win a championship. A lot of all time great players never won ONE much less multiple. While I think Throne may be a liberal in his assessment of the team and Davis in particular, I completely agree with his general point that this core is nowhere near good enough to win a championship and I honestly don't think we will ever be with this roster.
History has shown, with a few extreme outliers, that you need at least two (and usually three) generational players to consistently be a legitimate title contender. Davis is obviously on the right path to becoming one and should be there very soon. But who else on this team fits that description? Please don't tell me Jrue Holliday. And yes, you could argue Tyreke with a jumpshot might get there but at this point in his career, I think the probability of that is low. Ryno is a great complimentary piece but he is the perfect 4th or 5th option on a contender, not someone to help lift a team to another level. And I think Monroe would be another lateral move where we would have a ceiling that is right below title contender.
This is why I was (and still am) so against the Jrue trade. We gave up 2 pieces (I loved Noel for a lot reasons, if you actually care to know them go find the thread I started on him before that draft) that may have netted us that perfect 2nd superstar. This draft is still loaded with those players, even if it may not be as great as originally projected. Instead we chose to lock ourselves into a good but not great player and, in all likelyhood, closing any real shot at a championship for the foreseeable future. I don't dislike our roster I just don't think that it will ever win a championship.
Lawd; Jrue ryno reke weren't good fits but Bowls a generational talent. I don't follow sir
"I don't know if people know — I dislocated my pinkie finger. And [Tyreke] told me, 'You wanna go home or you wanna be here?' I want to be here. And he said, 'All right, then go tape it up and let's play. Let's go. We not stoppin' at no stores. Straight gas. That's what we do, just keep going.'"
http://thebasketbawlblog.com/
Are most of the guys here supportive of Monroe for Anderson I'd the price is right? because I don't know if I would do that even if Monroe agrees to 10 mil a year. I think ryno opens the floor up for us so much, and replacing him with Monroe means we'll need another source for 3 pointers.
the way I see it, Monroe won't improve the offense ask that much, especially as he'll clog the lane more than Anderson would, and his defense is average at best.
guess my question to you guys is what's the advantage gained here?
I think that our team is the inverse of Phoenix. On paper Phoenix is terrible. On paper, we look great. They greatly overperformed. We greatly underperformed. We can blame a lot of our issues on injuries but even though we have some great talent on the team, we have unfortunately not seen it play well together. We need time to play and grow, be healthy, and increase our basketball IQ. On paper I can see how our team works very well. I just hope that we get to that point soon.
To exemplify my point look at the Clippers. If I were to say which team, OKC or LA had the better collection of talent I'd say the Clippers. But I always thought OKC would win. Most of that is because of the years they've played together. I value consistency because it allows players to know one another and buy into the system. I think we have the talent (when healthy) for a deep playoff run. The problem is figuring out how to use it and keep our core together so they can learn each other together.
.......if healthy
@Jabberwalker
I thought this thread was about Monroe. Yea everyone would make that trade, but would they be willing to pay Monroe Max money? I would take Monroe on a max contract if Gordon was shipped in the deal. .
I was just listening to SXM NBA Radio and SVG said that he wants to keep Monroe. He thinks that Josh Smith is a 4 and that if Monroe is willing to stay, he and Josh Smith would split time with JS coming off of the bench. If either player had an issue with that, SVG said that he's not interested in said player. I don't know if that was political speak or not but that's what he said.
Contributor
Even if you assume he does wanna move Monroe, last thing you wanna do is advertise it.
It lowers his trade value.
And like I said, everybody would. We would also ship Tyreke for Lebron. But we are trying to debate realistic scenarios here. Gordon for Monroe is not that.
Agree with this 100% I think that people on this board either over value our players or really really undervalue them. Look back at a lot of the teams that have won championships. they have been together for a good but and are all in their prime.
The problem is do we have the time to be patient? Will Demps and/or Williams be here in 3-5 years if we aren't contenders by then? Will Evans and/or Holiday be here if we aren't contenders by then? Same with Anderson? The Spurs and OKC could be sure they could hold their cores together we don't have that luxury. This again is why I always say build through the draft it gives you flexibility and the option to be patient.
I've waffled all season with my feelings on the Jrue trade but now that I've had a whole season to digest things I think in back to agreeing with you.
Anthony Davis may very well become the best player in the league in a couple years but that is not enough to win a championship.
We rushed our rebuilding process. I don't think anyone can argue against that premise. In the process of that decision we gave up the long term for the short.
The alternative was to keep Noel, keep our draft pick for this season and likely have a lower final standing and a better pick. If we went full tank we could be in even better shape and be talking about getting Parker, wiggins or Embiid.
I feel that the ceiling for our current roster is a first or second round exit. But playing the long term game has more risk but a higher reward. if Noel comes back and truly has developed a bit of an offensive game we could of had the most devastating and flexible front court in the league for some time.
I mean just think about how the league may look in a couple years with the emergence of Portland, GSW, Oklahoma, Houston and the Clippers.
Next offseason the clippers could actually land Melo and an aging Tyson Chandler or Robin Lopez and have a ridiculous starting 5 with Paul, Griffin, Melo, Reddick and a FA center.
Is a core of Jrue, Evans, Anderson and Davis with Monty Williams at the helm(no matter how you feel about the guy no one thinks he's elite) really going to challenge the elite teams and coaches of the West?
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 05-16-2014 at 02:54 PM.
They could be Dirk Mavs good.
The difference there IMO was they were a true veteran team with players that had a career year and a better coaching staff. A Cinderella story. Plus I think the league has gotten more competitive since then.
But it is a good point in showing it could be done. I just don't know if it's an accurate comparison.
They were contenders for some years before that, too.
e: I mean, I agree with most of your post. But the talent level could be equal. By the time Davis gets to the point he is good enough to win a championship as the #1, there is no telling how different this team could look.
Not attacking you or anything, but I'm tired of this assessment with these vague terms. We won't know if we rebuilt too fast until we see the results, one injury riddled season where our coach never found out how to use everyone before everyone got hurt is not enough to say we rebuilt too fast, and on top of that, we aren't even finished building the team, there are clearly moves to be made. What is short term versus long? Holiday and Evans both signed through 16-17(3 more years, the same length as any first round pick contract) and we'll have Davis and Rivers for many years to come so we have this core in place for at least just as long as if we had built through the draft this and last year, except we have a former rookie of the year and one of the youngest allstars ever instead of unproven talent and a C missing the season to ACL injury. I'd take Jrue and/or Evans over Noel, Bennett, Oladipo, Otto Porter, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, McLemore, Caldwell Pope, McCollum, Hardaway Jr, Plumlee, Tony Snell, Schroder, Muhammed, Olynyk, Adams, Exum, Vonleh, Ennis, Smart, Saric, Gordon, McDermott, Harris, Hood, Napier, - pretty much over all of the lot we would be picking from aside from maybe one or two. I wouldn't trade our season for a tanked one.
Everyone acts like we are what we are, and Davis and Rivers are the only ones that will get better, everyone will get better and learn to play better together.
never assume
The problem with that line of thinking is you are ASSUMING that these players are going to end up being better than Jrue and Tyreke. Is it a possibility yes. But there is also the possibility that those picks don't pan out. Now we wasted 3 or 4 years of prime Davis time waiting to see If that pick panned out. I mean did Nerlens show us anything in college to make It look like he could develop any kind of offensive game outside of dunking. More than likely he ends up being a super skinny Andre drummond.
Am I saying one way is better than the other. No. U just have to look at both sides of the coin.
Preach!! People forget how truly good some of our players really are. Jrue carried the sixers by himself in the playoffs. Tyreke can only drive to the paint. Everyone knows this yet teams still struggle to stop him. Imagine how good those two could be if you put the right small forward next to them.
I'm not being picky but you (not you in particular but you in general) can't say how bad the Eastern Conference is and then say this
This is true. But it was against a bulls team that even with out derrick rose continues to make it to the play offs
1st let me say this nobody knows anything for sure. We are all giving opinions so to say we should wait defeats the purpose of even forming an opinion.
I think what people over look and why I'm in complete agreement with the idea that we rushed the rebuild is the money and length of contracts that Anderson, Evans, and Holiday have. While we can all agree Anderson is without a doubt on a very favorable contract we only have him under contract for two more years. Holiday nor Evans has proven their worth their contracts for this team. Clearly that has to do with injuries, but the team only has control over Holiday and Evans for the next 3 years and they both are making 8 figure deals which limits the way we can improve.
Now if we had gone the route of the draft we would have cap space with players that have the potential to be as good if not better than Evans and Holiday and the option to match any deal for them. Thus giving us the rights to those players from 7-9years. Not only that if Davis becomes one of the league best player in the next 2-3 years we would have the cap space to offer another big time player a max deal after giving Davis one. Now that option is gone.
IMO we are locked into a core for the next 3 years that just isn't good enough in a very tough conference with little chance to get significantly better.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10...ndy-head-coach
Greg Monroe is a restricted free agent, and both Rodney Stuckey and Charlie Villanueva are unrestricted.
"I want to start the process by sitting down with Greg face to face, talking about how he sees himself, how he sees our organization, and giving me a chance to talk to him about my vision for what goes on and how I think we can create a system that will fully maximize his abilities," Van Gundy said.
Monroe, Drummond and Josh Smith can all be effective around the basket, but last season's Pistons did not shoot well from the perimeter. And Detroit will lose this year's first-round draft pick if it's not in the top eight -- part of a previous trade with Charlotte.
Sounds like they need Eric Gordon to me. Just doesn't sound like they want to get rid of Monroe
How are you defining "contender"? If you mean making the playoffs that's not a contender to me.
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