Eric Gordon as the 6th man, can it work?

[jgman]

For the 747th time on this board, Eric Gordon is not eligible for the amnesty clause.

lol

You always make these matter of fact statements about the team's plans. Where is this info coming from? I have never heard any of these rumblings from any source but you/PelicansReport and I know somebody that's close to the team (a staff member that travels with the team) that has never mentioned anything like that. I guess I just want to know if this is your gut feeling or do you have concrete evidence. I always hear about Gordon's bad attitude and him not being a team player but I only hear that on this site. Is this all based on "My heart is in Phoenix" or concrete evidence? This is not a jab at you but I'm genuinely curious about where this all stems from.

To stay on topic, I don't think Gordon is stopping Reke from excelling. As per last season, Reke didn't excel until he had total control of the ball. I'm more concerned about how he and Jrue will play together. I assume Jrue will be off ball because Reke can't shoot the ball in the ocean.

Is it not a valid conclusion to come to based on everything that the team has done regarding the backcourt and gordon over the last two years? it is well documented that the FO has shopped gordon whenever they have the chance. They brought in tyreke, a move many thought was redundant because of gordon's spot on the team, is it not a valid conclusion to come to that they brought him in to replace gordon, wouldn't it make much more sense than bringing reke off the bench?--people were saying this before the whole 6th man thing failed. His play and effort on the court has been questioned for 2 years, his health has been questioned, his team mentality has been questioned, his commitment to the team, and none of these things have been answered by him and all indications, stats, play, everything points to him not belonging on the team, I mean hell we play a lot worse with him on the court than off, this has been documented and supported.

[UptownFuz504]

lol



Is it not a valid conclusion to come to based on everything that the team has done regarding the backcourt and gordon over the last two years? it is well documented that the FO has shopped gordon whenever they have the chance. They brought in tyreke, a move many thought was redundant because of gordon's spot on the team, is it not a valid conclusion to come to that they brought him in to replace gordon, wouldn't it make much more sense than bringing reke off the bench?--people were saying this before the whole 6th man thing failed. His play and effort on the court has been questioned for 2 years, his health has been questioned, his team mentality has been questioned, his commitment to the team, and none of these things have been answered by him and all indications, stats, play, everything points to him not belonging on the team, I mean hell we play a lot worse with him on the court than off, this has been documented and supported.

Everything that you listed is conjecture. I'm not disputing it but it doesn't address what I asked. I've never read anything official about his attitude etc. This is the only place that I've read that. If it has been documented somewhere (outside of PelsReport/BSS), please point me in that direction. That's all I'm asking. FWIW, I don't think that he fits with what Monty wants to do here so I'm not an advocate. Just curious about why this is the only place abuzz about his "bad attitude" and unwillingness to play here. I get the whole contract thing and not being worth it. I just want to know the origins of the bad teammate talk and not being in the future plans talk. About being shopped, Reke and Rivers were also allegedly being shopped so that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. Every player is being shopped accept for the superstars.

[MichaelMcNamara]

What does "official" mean? That the team has never come out and publically stated he has been difficult and that they are trying to move him day and night.

There are like four sources for Pels info and they have all written Gordon pieces on one or both subjects


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[jgman]

Everything that you listed is conjecture. I'm not disputing it but it doesn't address what I asked. I've never read anything official about his attitude etc. This is the only place that I've read that. If it has been documented somewhere (outside of PelsReport/BSS), please point me in that direction. That's all I'm asking. FWIW, I don't think that he fits with what Monty wants to do here so I'm not an advocate. Just curious about why this is the only place abuzz about his "bad attitude" and unwillingness to play here. I get the whole contract thing and not being worth it. I just want to know the origins of the bad teammate talk and not being in the future plans talk. About being shopped, Reke and Rivers were also allegedly being shopped so that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. Every player is being shopped accept for the superstars.

I literally just googled "eric gordon attitude" and found

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...is-head-coach/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...fer/56071814/1

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2013/2/...ould-be-unwise

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ns-eric-gordon

all on the first page making references to his "attitude" so you probably haven't read anything because you haven't looked.

Do you think something "official" would come out regarding his attitude? The FO would never come out with something like that and we don't matter enough for someone like espn to come out with a speculative article about his attitude problems, no one would read it compared to an article about a team in the playoffs. This is one of the only places that talks about his attitude simple because we are one of the only places that talks about the pelicans. You aren't going to find anything "official" that clearly states his attitude problems, everything is conjecture, but come on it is pretty evident he doesn't have the best mentality, if I'm putting it nicely.

Other players being shopped still doesn't change the fact that the FO was trying to get rid of gordon, which was much more documented than us trying to move anyone else on the roster.

[durun]

I literally just googled "eric gordon attitude" and found

Evidently you did not read these articles before you posted. One mentions his perceived attitude and another is referring to contractual discussion in 2012. The USA Today's article does not even contain the word "attitude". Two of the articles are about a dispute with Monty. So, does Evans have an attitude? What does it mean to have an ATTITUDE?

all on the first page making references to his "attitude" so you probably haven't read anything because you haven't looked.

Guess you look but did not read. But what does it mean to have an attitude?

[jgman]

I literally just googled "eric gordon attitude" and found

Evidently you did not read these articles before you posted. One mentions his perceived attitude and another is referring to contractual discussion in 2012. The USA Today's article does not even contain the word "attitude". Two of the articles are about a dispute with Monty. So, does Evans have an attitude? What does it mean to have an ATTITUDE?

all on the first page making references to his "attitude" so you probably haven't read anything because you haven't looked.

Guess you look but did not read. But what does it mean to have an attitude?

What did you take from those articles when you read them with regards to eric gordon?

Here is what I said - "His play and effort on the court has been questioned for 2 years, his health has been questioned, his team mentality has been questioned, his commitment to the team" - don't those articles show that? Would those problems lead one to the conclusion that he has a bad attitude toward our team and or franchise? One article did mention his attitude, another mentioned distrust of our FO, another one mentioned disagreements with the coach, all of them mention his poor play, it is not crazy to come to a conclusion about his attitude.

Again, if you are looking for something "official" or someone to hold your hand and explain to you how he has a bad attitude you aren't going to find it, the FO isn't going to drag someone's name through the mudd or media because they aren't on the same page.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think we are getting off track with the attitude thing. Reke and Jrue are the guards of the future because they are simply better players and have a better contract

[jgman]

I think we are getting off track with the attitude thing. Reke and Jrue are the guards of the future because they are simply better players and have a better contract

We've talked a lot about Reke, but what should Holiday work on over the offseason? He has a very well rounded game but there hasn't been much talk about him considering he is one of our core players

[MichaelMcNamara]

Holiday has the skill sets. He needs to work on the mental part. Doesnt get to the free throw line enough and hasn't truly learned when to shoot vs. when to create. That can only be fixed with time. But the skill set is there.

[Mythrol]

Holiday has the skill sets. He needs to work on the mental part. Doesnt get to the free throw line enough and hasn't truly learned when to shoot vs. when to create. That can only be fixed with time. But the skill set is there.

This is my evaluation of him as well. He has all the skills needed for a guard. Shooting, driving, passing, defense. If I want Jrue to work on anything it's to lower his TO % by a bit and focus on the mental aspects of the game. To really become the floor general. His personality seems to already be pass first. With Reke he will need to be willing to take the spot up shots.

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[SeaLegs]

This is my evaluation of him as well. He has all the skills needed for a guard. Shooting, driving, passing, defense. If I want Jrue to work on anything it's to lower his TO % by a bit and focus on the mental aspects of the game. To really become the floor general. His personality seems to already be pass first. With Reke he will need to be willing to take the spot up shots.

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Like you and MM said, most of the criticisms that I've heard about him stem from his decision making. He seems unsure sometimes about when to pass, when to shoot, etc.

Honestly that's why I think his absence over the majority of last season will really hurt his production going into next year. While the rest of our team was gelling and learning to play together, Jrue was sitting on the bench in a suit. He still has plenty of time to learn the system and get comfortable, but it's a little disappointing because that's what he was supposed to be doing this last season. Hopefully he'll still retain some chemistry from earlier in the season and hopefully he'll still work on his game over the summer to improve.

It's just unfortunate that after being such a reliable player, he comes here and misses most of the season his first year.

[UptownFuz504]

I literally just googled "eric gordon attitude" and found

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.c...is-head-coach/

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sport...fer/56071814/1

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2013/2/...ould-be-unwise

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ns-eric-gordon

all on the first page making references to his "attitude" so you probably haven't read anything because you haven't looked.

Do you think something "official" would come out regarding his attitude? The FO would never come out with something like that and we don't matter enough for someone like espn to come out with a speculative article about his attitude problems, no one would read it compared to an article about a team in the playoffs. This is one of the only places that talks about his attitude simple because we are one of the only places that talks about the pelicans. You aren't going to find anything "official" that clearly states his attitude problems, everything is conjecture, but come on it is pretty evident he doesn't have the best mentality, if I'm putting it nicely.

Other players being shopped still doesn't change the fact that the FO was trying to get rid of gordon, which was much more documented than us trying to move anyone else on the roster.

Yeah, I perused the linked articles and like I said earlier, I haven't seen where Gordon was a cancer anywhere but PR/BSS.

The 1st link was about a one time incident. There is nothing overly unusual about that.
The 2nd link was exactly about what I referenced in my earlier post about the perceived attitude being due to "my heart is in Phoenix".
The 3rd link says in the 1st or 2nd sentence about Gordon's perceived attitude (which is my point). It actually highlighted the perceived part.
The 4th link speaks more about his injury and who should trade for him. It did mention the Monty shouting match though.

My point behind the question wasn't to start controversy but I was curious if this was something blown up on the forum and fans ran with it. That's all. The person I know FWIW said that Gordon seems to be ok in the locker room. I also heard Dino Hansen say the same on the radio. Oh well. MM said he'll fill us in down the so I'll just wait to hear it from him.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Gordon is not great, is not bad in the locker room. More keeps to himself. A few interactions with the team have not been good.

But the "cancer" thing is almost never the argument from people on why he needs to go. It is his contract and his injury history combined with his redundant skill set. When people who know the team talk about him, THAT is the reason he needs to go. A few casual fans may talk about the heart in Phoenix thing, but that is not the reason that the educated ones want him gone.

[UptownFuz504]

Gordon is not great, is not bad in the locker room. More keeps to himself. A few interactions with the team have not been good.

But the "cancer" thing is almost never the argument from people on why he needs to go. It is his contract and his injury history combined with his redundant skill set. When people who know the team talk about him, THAT is the reason he needs to go. A few casual fans may talk about the heart in Phoenix thing, but that is not the reason that the educated ones want him gone.

Thanks MM. I agree that he's not a fit here. Back on topic. Never meant to derail it.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Don't think you derailed it. It is still something that gets brought up a lot.

Now, it gets rehashed because people question whether he can move to the bench. Maybe he has matured since then, but some Clippers writers told us he was getting very jealous of Blake Griffin when he took the big dog spot from Gordon in LA and they were also told from some of Gordon's people that a big reason why he wanted Phoenix was because he would be the clear #1 guy. Rememberm we had just gotten the #1 pick and he knew AD was going to be the cornerstone.

So, could a guy who wanted to be the face of a franchise just a few years ago now want to come off the bench? I am not buying it, but we will see.

[SeaLegs]

Don't think you derailed it. It is still something that gets brought up a lot.

Now, it gets rehashed because people question whether he can move to the bench. Maybe he has matured since then, but some Clippers writers told us he was getting very jealous of Blake Griffin when he took the big dog spot from Gordon in LA and they were also told from some of Gordon's people that a big reason why he wanted Phoenix was because he would be the clear #1 guy. Rememberm we had just gotten the #1 pick and he knew AD was going to be the cornerstone.

So, could a guy who wanted to be the face of a franchise just a few years ago now want to come off the bench? I am not buying it, but we will see.

Isn't him not buying in kind of preferable at this point? He may complain but won't outright refuse to play. This seems like a win-win-win to me. Tyreke is back in the starting lineup where he should be, Gordon is getting less minutes, and he is now more motivated than ever to opt out of his contract.

How funny would it be to see him demand a trade? I'd politely ask him to find a suitor as I laughed and walked away.

[Mythrol]

Isn't him not buying in kind of preferable at this point? He may complain but won't outright refuse to play. This seems like a win-win-win to me. Tyreke is back in the starting lineup where he should be, Gordon is getting less minutes, and he is now more motivated than ever to opt out of his contract.

How funny would it be to see him demand a trade? I'd politely ask him to find a suitor as I laughed and walked away.

I am very much on board with making him hate it here if he will opt out.

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[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I think this was the plan all along.
They never traded for Evans to be the SF…..they always had the intention for him and Jrue to be the back court of the future.
Two guy’s that can score and handle the ball.
There aren’t too many teams in the NBA that have that.
IMO Dell and Monty were just being politically correct by saying all this so they don’t destroy the apple cart.

The question still remains if Gordon was to be the 6th man…….would he still opt out?
Has he finally realised he isn’t as good as he once was before all his injuries?

Surely he isn’t that naive to think he can still be the cornerstone on a decent NBA roster with his injury history.

If he doesn’t opt out….then they at least allow Holiday and Evans to mesh as a back court next season.

[LSUNolaFan]

Gordon for Hibbert?

[UptownFuz504]

Don't think you derailed it. It is still something that gets brought up a lot.

Now, it gets rehashed because people question whether he can move to the bench. Maybe he has matured since then, but some Clippers writers told us he was getting very jealous of Blake Griffin when he took the big dog spot from Gordon in LA and they were also told from some of Gordon's people that a big reason why he wanted Phoenix was because he would be the clear #1 guy. Rememberm we had just gotten the #1 pick and he knew AD was going to be the cornerstone.

So, could a guy who wanted to be the face of a franchise just a few years ago now want to come off the bench? I am not buying it, but we will see.

This is that proverbial ah ha moment. I still don't love/hate him but I see where some of your points of view come from

[MichaelMcNamara]

Gordon for Hibbert?

If Pacers move Hibbert, and I still dont think they would, they could fetch a lot better in a trade than Gordon, who again, is one of the 5 worst contracts in the league.

[hornetsrebirth]

I like the idea, would rather see Gordon used as the 6th man than traded away for something that doesn't end up helping the team. I think the role would suit him.

[hornetsrebirth]

Don't think you derailed it. It is still something that gets brought up a lot.

Now, it gets rehashed because people question whether he can move to the bench. Maybe he has matured since then, but some Clippers writers told us he was getting very jealous of Blake Griffin when he took the big dog spot from Gordon in LA and they were also told from some of Gordon's people that a big reason why he wanted Phoenix was because he would be the clear #1 guy. Rememberm we had just gotten the #1 pick and he knew AD was going to be the cornerstone.

So, could a guy who wanted to be the face of a franchise just a few years ago now want to come off the bench? I am not buying it, but we will see.

It doesn't matter what he wants, if the coach says he comes off the bench that is what happens. If Gordon is unhappy with it he can opt out at the end of the year, I'm sure the Pelicans would welcome that.

[msw2024]

[Q UOTE=kclaboy504;1213204]Absolutely.[/QUOTE]
I agree completely

[Redstar504]

The 3rd poster hit on a key point, floor spacing. Most of the defenders we faced clogged the lanes, that Evans was still able to slash around says a lot about his potential. We had no true midrange guys that forced defenders back out. Hark back to the days of the automatic midrange David West gave you the second he got the ball at the top of the key everyone had to bite. Floor space isn't just provided by 3 point shooters it's the high percentage mid-range shooter in tandem with the 3 point shooter. Teams have to defend every section of the court and that provides spacing. What does this have to do with Gordon?

Gordon is a really good player, but in space. He is a good slasher but in space. He is a good shooter but in space. The key to maxing out Gordon's potential is we need a healthy Ryan Anderson and a healthy point guard in Holliday that can take advantage of the empty floor a guy like Ryan can create. Ryan has to be respected where ever he is and AD is now a guy that is starting to force teams to send help. We saw help defenders going to AD the last half of last year throw Ryan in and that's a lot of open court for Gordon to thrive.

My vote is before we go throwing Eric Gordon off the bridge is let's see what he can do when we have the players to set him up in the situations he performs best in.