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I would gladly give Parsons, Leonard, or Butler and Ryno type deal (which is fair to all parties) and I think two of the three guys would actually take that deal (Leonard being the one not to because he is set to be the face of the "New" Spurs, and he will get a maxish type deal).
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Why would a season with Williams be good and one without him be "sandbagging?"
I guess this is my question. I think the exact same team with Williams at SF vs. Miller and Brandon Rush maybe wins 1 more game if everything else is equal. Maybe.
Now, if we have the shot at other guys, I go for it and would be fine with a little less money next year. If I can get PJ Tucker, Andy Varejao, Martell Webster (in a trade), etc. then I eat up some cap room. But guys like Marvin Williams, Jordan Hill, etc. I pass and get slightly lesser guys on 1 year deals. Dont think guys like that effect the win total or the culture.
@mcnamara247
Parsons will get 10-13 mil per. Same with Butler. Leonard will get 15 mil per IMO. Remember, the cap increases 15% by summer of 2015. Prices will increase with it. Those guys will all get WAY more than Ryno. More than Batum probably, who is at 12 mil perOriginally Posted by UNO Gracias
We are on the same page here. Time value of money. With a rising market so goes the price of quality talent. But % wise of your teams cap, I would give them what we gave Ryno. Those guys signing a $9 mil a season at that point in the future would be like them signing a deal slightly over the MLE now. Aint nobody got time for small contracts.
I see us signing Williams or somebody of his ilk much the same way I saw us signing Posey. We strapped our cart to a person who proved to have one talent, and we thought that the one talent was what we needed, when in actuality, it was not and that player jobbed us. Just say no, and spend your cash later on for a better toy.
Think about it, I want a new video game to play but I only have $12. I can go down to Wal Mart (or where ever people buy video games) and buy a game for $12 (do games sell for that cheap?), because the market says its only $12 worth of entertainment, or, I can keep playing the games I have, wait til my next pay day, and buy a game for $30 which is really good and I will enjoy for a while.
The analogy is crap because I do not play games, but the point is real. Play what you have, save your cash, get a good player; over, spend your cash, sign a mediocre player, and keep searching the streets for your next fix.
Again this is why I'm saying that signing Williams is not a bad option given the contract(both length and amount).
Also as I pointed out are we going to be able to offer the touches that most of those guys on the list is likely to want to get with the core 4 already in place? Probably not. We talked about Harden and how him leaving was less about money and more about him wanting to be the man. I can't see any of those named as potential SF wanting to come here and be as low as the 5th option on offense.
I would gladly give Parsons $10-13 mil a season rather than give Williams whatever the MLE is this season. One guy has been a gamer and has proven it since the word go, while the other is just finding his game. Not to mention Parsons is younger, and more complete. He will get his touches. Everyone will get their touches. If Jrue is a facilitator, and Reke can facilitate as well, everyone should get the amount of shots that the team needs to win. Parsons is getting 13 shots a game in Houston, you know who gets 13 shots a game here? Eric Gordon. Move Gordon and give his shots to Parsons...problem solved. Remember teamwork makes the dream work.
I would love to have Parsons or anybody on MM list over Williams. However would they want us is the question. And would they be willing to take the same role or less role to play here?
Again, you gotta try. Just assuming they wont and settling is not a champions attitude.
To me it's more about being calculated as opposed to just "trying". Being realistic is a championship attitude. Having players that understand their roles is important part of putting together title contenders.
Free agency is a process in which no guarantees can be made. My move is the calculated move, isn't it? Cast your reel into a river with two fish and some average bait or cast your reel into a river swarming with fish and as much high end bait as you want. Seems to me that option two would yield the best result more times than not, no?
I believe whomever you sign this year has to be tradable. I was all for resigning Gordon cause I thought he'd be easy to move and get something for him. Boy was I wrong. I doubt Williams is someone teams are licking their chops to go after. So I'm in the 2015 wagon unless something good can be done this year and that can only be done if we move Gordon.
So I see two options that I'm thinking about.
A: Quote from MM's article about resigning our guys this year and having the MLE/biannual, "In this new world, they could theoretically still do that, but they would have to overpay those guys to get above the cap, only to have the exceptions."
So what if we do just this but sign them for 1 year deals and have maximum cap available for next summer? Use the MLE to get a PJ Tucker type and the biannual on Morrow.
B: Move Gordon for the least amount of take back money as possible or stretch him this summer. The goal is to free up an extra 9M (or more). This will give us enough money to go after Deng this summer and use the RLE on Morrow. Depending what happens with Gordon we might have some extra cap to bring back Smith or get someone else.
Does option B have the highest theoretical maximum return as A? No. We could luck out and land an absolute stud like Love in 2015. But I see B as a viable option for two reasons, it gets you the veteran you need now - a previous all star w/ tons of playoff experience, and it locks us in instead of playing the wait and see and end up missing out on any player.
The problem with saying wait till 2015 there's a deeper FA market is every team seems to be saying that. This year there's maybe 5-6 teams in a position to sign the couple of big FA's. Next year there will be more FA's but a ton more teams who waited and are buying too. If you have 3x the amount if buyers next year it doesn't matter if you have 2x more talent. It will still be harder to get. Combine that with the suggest two high spikes in cap: you could be looking at teams that weren't in a position this year be there for next. Or even if they team couldn't afford the biggest FAs, they will make our life a lot harder trying to sign the smaller ones too once they miss out of the big guys.
Maybe Deng is only an 8/10 get, but there's certainly benefits for us making the move now. Heck even if we didn't do it for Deng, that would allow us to get Ariza, Gortat, and most of our guys back that we'd want. Might even be able to get Hamilton as a backup SF too with that cap. Or it would allow us to get Monroe and maybe a smaller piece like Hamilton.
Right, here is the X Factor though- Anthony Davis.
How many of the teams that we will be competing with in the 2015 FA class will have a 22 year old MVP candidate to entice players.
If AD takes another leap and we go into that summer with 20 mil in cap room, no way we get shut out IMO
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Bingo!
You can't join the Thunder because they will be tapped out of cash.
Can't join the Clipps because they are capped out.
There are no other young teams with a game changer like AD that have cash. So you come here and join a group such as the one we have. We will be good next year, with the possibility of teetering on great. With that, and cash...if making lots of money while winning lots of games is your angle there is no better choice.
Nobody came here to play with Paul, nobody went to Toronto to play with Bosh, nobody went to San Antonio to play with Duncan, nobody went to Cleveland to play with LeBron. Even if Davis turns into a megastar perennial MVP candidate that hasn't proven to be a quality recruiting tool.
you guys think on such a small scale the most of these are lateral moves. I also think Dell know you can't depend on FA for a small market team you have to be aggressive.
Who's running to play in OKC? FA for small market teams are a waste.
Stop with the ****ing insanity and just play Tyreke at the 3, and rivers at the 2 if Gordons knee hurts too bad to play = Playoffs
Wouldn't say it's a waste teams just have to be realistic about what it is you can get out of it.
I don't see why a young up and coming player would want to come here unless we offered way more money than any other team.
Exactly. People pretend that having AD means we get FAs. Maybe. But that's no guarentee. Hedging all your bets on one year of FA when as many as half the league could be all doing the same thing is silly in my eyes. Especially when you are a small market.
People are saying OKC, Clips, Houston are out the picture but they are ignoring LAL, Knicks, Boston, and tons of other teams who aren't as big as those but have solid teams like Washington, Suns, Heat (if LBJ leaves), etc. And as been pointed out be for. CP3 couldn't get anyone to come here.
I'm far more in the camp of making the move early before other people do when you are in our situation. Maybe you miss out on the top 10 talent but did we honestly have a shot at that talent anyway when so many big market teams are competing for them as well?
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Two summers with cap space
Summer A- Ryno and Lopez
Summer B- Tyreke
When Dell has space, he gets players. Why should we expect different in 2015? Where's the evidence for assuming a strikeout?
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I assumed you were planning on targeting a max level player in 2015. Not ancillary pieces like Tyreke and Ryno. We got those players because we saw potential other teams didn't or we offered more than another team was willing to pay. That is NOT the situation when everyone is going after a player and offering max money.
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This is a trend I have noticed. The only way for a small market team to land a max-level player is by trade. We have a very solid core with Davis, so all we can hope for is a good bargain role player.
With scenario B are you saying the Pels bring back most of their player's and just sign a
SF to fill that hole in 2014/15?
Who comes back on a 1 year deal though?
I like this option.
I think this team healthy is a playoff team anyway.
Upgrade the SF in 2015/16 via free agency and the
C via a trade in 2014/15.
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