Projected Cap Increase and What It Means for the Pelicans

[UNO Gracias]

Like MM said, 2 summers with cap space, and 2 summers of solid free agent pickups. If our money is as green as everyone else's, and we provide an option to win people will come. They have in the past, and they will in the future.

You can say that these are ancillary moves but titles are one surrounding amazing talent with ancillary parts. The Spurs are an all time great and two phenomenal pieces and ancillary pieces. The Pistons didn't even have the all time great, they were just a bunch of good players that individually weren't crap (until that point), they came together and gelled and bought in.

We have a great player, and potentially 2 phenomenal players, and we have the opportunity to bring in another good player. Our players are buying into Monty's system...we don't need All stars, we need ancillary guys.

[Mythrol]

Like MM said, 2 summers with cap space, and 2 summers of solid free agent pickups. If our money is as green as everyone else's, and we provide an option to win people will come. They have in the past, and they will in the future.

You can say that these are ancillary moves but titles are one surrounding amazing talent with ancillary parts. The Spurs are an all time great and two phenomenal pieces and ancillary pieces. The Pistons didn't even have the all time great, they were just a bunch of good players that individually weren't crap (until that point), they came together and gelled and bought in.

We have a great player, and potentially 2 phenomenal players, and we have the opportunity to bring in another good player. Our players are buying into Monty's system...we don't need All stars, we need ancillary guys.

You can get ancillary guys this year. The whole argument for next year is that the talent pool will be so much deeper that we could score a big player. Why waste another year holding out for ancillary players when the same could be done this year and give them an extra year to gel.

I'm also curious, Who is the great player and who are the two potentially phenomenal players?

[UNO Gracias]

We are saying, hold off on offering anything but a 1 year "prove it" contract until next year. Next offseason bring in another Tyreke, Ryno type signing. Put that player in with our Phenominal AD, and our two top tier (of their position) guys Jrue and Reke and throw in Ryno and whoever this mystery player is, and we have as much talent as anyone.

[da ThRONe]

Like MM said, 2 summers with cap space, and 2 summers of solid free agent pickups. If our money is as green as everyone else's, and we provide an option to win people will come. They have in the past, and they will in the future.

You can say that these are ancillary moves but titles are one surrounding amazing talent with ancillary parts. The Spurs are an all time great and two phenomenal pieces and ancillary pieces. The Pistons didn't even have the all time great, they were just a bunch of good players that individually weren't crap (until that point), they came together and gelled and bought in.

We have a great player, and potentially 2 phenomenal players, and we have the opportunity to bring in another good player. Our players are buying into Monty's system...we don't need All stars, we need ancillary guys.

The problem with this is where are the role players? Guys that have 1 or 2 NBA skill that they hone. Where are the Bruce Bowens' or Shane Battier's? If you are Chandler Parsons for example why would you leave a better more proven team where you are the 3rd or 4th option to go to a lesser less proven team for similar money and still be the 4th or 5th option.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I think next year is for the "Rasheed Wallace"

Pistons were great before Rasheed. Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Ben Wallace plus a solid bench. But Rasheed put them over the top.

Not just a role player but a really nice player. Not elite. Not even a guy who makes the All-Star team neccessarily. But a really good player.

Better than just getting a MLE type of player every year like we did with Mo Peterson one year, then Posey another year, etc. I don't want to go down that route again. Not when we have a chance at this other route. Try the other route first, because the "adding MLE type guys" route will always be available.

[Mythrol]

We are saying, hold off on offering anything but a 1 year "prove it" contract until next year. Next offseason bring in another Tyreke, Ryno type signing. Put that player in with our Phenominal AD, and our two top tier (of their position) guys Jrue and Reke and throw in Ryno and whoever this mystery player is, and we have as much talent as anyone.

But that's what I'm saying. Why wait? You can get the Ryno/Tyreke player this year and you won't have as many people fighting for and overpaying them as next year. Plus it gives you an extra year for the players to gel. The only reason to wait until next year is if you are trying to go after one of the max level players. But if not then there's no reason to wait and have more teams fighting over players that we might end up missing on.

[UNO Gracias]

We don't have the cash to get that player this year. Read the article.

[Mythrol]

I think next year is for the "Rasheed Wallace"

Pistons were great before Rasheed. Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Ben Wallace plus a solid bench. But Rasheed put them over the top.

Not just a role player but a really nice player. Not elite. Not even a guy who makes the All-Star team neccessarily. But a really good player.

Better than just getting a MLE type of player every year like we did with Mo Peterson one year, then Posey another year, etc. I don't want to go down that route again. Not when we have a chance at this other route. Try the other route first, because the "adding MLE type guys" route will always be available.

But we don't have nearly the same quality bench. We aren't just one piece away. We are one good/great player and a couple role guys away. Signing 1yr contracts to save cap to sign someone next year doesn't address all of our needs.

[Mythrol]

We don't have the cash to get that player this year. Read the article.

I already laid out how to do it in my first post that you took exception with.

[MichaelMcNamara]

But that's what I'm saying. Why wait? You can get the Ryno/Tyreke player this year and you won't have as many people fighting for and overpaying them as next year. Plus it gives you an extra year for the players to gel. The only reason to wait until next year is if you are trying to go after one of the max level players. But if not then there's no reason to wait and have more teams fighting over players that we might end up missing on.

The guys this year - maybe Gortat or Luol Deng - will demand 10-12 mil per and the max we will have is 7 mil in cap room. There really are no needle movers this summer that will become free and the one or two that might will be out of our price range.

Huge step from guys like that or guys I mention for 2015 down to guys like Marvin Williams or Jordan Hill. Like the others, they are not superstars, but that is all they have in common. There are B and B+ players in 2015, even a few A-'s (Marc Gasol). This summer, you are talking about C's and C+'s for the money we have. That is a huge difference IMO

[MichaelMcNamara]

But we don't have nearly the same quality bench. We aren't just one piece away. We are one good/great player and a couple role guys away. Signing 1yr contracts to save cap to sign someone next year doesn't address all of our needs.

Rivers, Morrow, 2015 1st round pick, Smith, and Withey could be a solid bench. Pierre too or whatever we can get for him. And AD will be better tha anyone on that Pistons team. Starting 5 could be stronger, bench good enough. And again, Monty can always find solid role players for cheap. Probably what he is best at.

[Mythrol]

The guys this year - maybe Gortat or Luol Deng - will demand 10-12 mil per and the max we will have is 7 mil in cap room. There really are no needle movers this summer that will become free and the one or two that might will be out of our price range.

Huge step from guys like that or guys I mention for 2015 down to guys like Marvin Williams or Jordan Hill. Like the others, they are not superstars, but that is all they have in common. There are B and B+ players in 2015, even a few A-'s (Marc Gasol). This summer, you are talking about C's and C+'s for the money we have. That is a huge difference IMO

Not if we move/stretch Gordon this summer.

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[Mythrol]

Rivers, Morrow, 2015 1st round pick, Smith, and Withey could be a solid bench. Pierre too or whatever we can get for him. And AD will be better tha anyone on that Pistons team. Starting 5 could be stronger, bench good enough. And again, Monty can always find solid role players for cheap. Probably what he is best at.

Notice what wasn't on that list? Any SF. And according to your article Smith is most likely a causality this summer. Can't have him on our bench if he's gone.

The entire discussion has morphed from "Look at all these awesome players next year we should wait to try and sign" into saying all we need is one solid player. But there are solid players every year that can be had. Earlier in this thread you said we had to take our shot at getting a star next season. And we have AD that will make them sign. People pointed out how we've never been able to get that level of star and suddenly we should just wait to wait for the next tier down? Nah.

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[MichaelMcNamara]

Who said star? Are guys like Jimmy Butler, Nikola Vucevic, etc. bigger names than Ryno or Tyreke - who we got in the last two years?

I am not advocating for stars. I did not mention Love or Aldridge or anybody like that. The star thing, as usual, is people putting words into mouth. We have been able to get guys the caliber of the guys I am targeting, in the last two years nonetheless.

[Mythrol]

Who said star? Are guys like Jimmy Butler, Nikola Vucevic, etc. bigger names than Ryno or Tyreke - who we got in the last two years?

I am not advocating for stars. I did not mention Love or Aldridge or anybody like that. The star thing, as usual, is people putting words into mouth. We have been able to get guys the caliber of the guys I am targeting, in the last two years nonetheless.

You're not?

When did that change? Maybe you should edit your article about waiting for 2015 then. http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...ummer-of-2015/

Yes. LMA and Love were off the list but you did mention Gasol, Leonard, Deandre Jordan, and Tyson Chandler. You even specifically say, "Now, there are some other mid-tier guys too like Tobias Harris and old friend Robin Lopez, but I just wanted to put the studs up here." But now you are saying we put words in your mouth? Come on man. Yes you mentioned Butler and the sort but you also mentioned stars are possible targets too in 2015.

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[UNO Gracias]

You're not?

When did that change? Maybe you should edit your article about waiting for 2015 then. http://www.bourbonstreetshots.com/20...ummer-of-2015/

Yes. LMA and Love were off the list but you did mention Gasol, Leonard, Deandre Jordan, and Tyson Chandler. You even specifically say, "Now, there are some other mid-tier guys too like Tobias Harris and old friend Robin Lopez, but I just wanted to put the studs up here." But now you are saying we put words in your mouth? Come on man. Yes you mentioned Butler and the sort but you also mentioned stars are possible targets too in 2015.

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Who on that list is a star? Now who on that list is of the caliber of player we could get this offseason? Those aren't max guys, but they aren't MLE guys either.

Sign your guys to 1 year contracts that at most have a team option for the second year, but go and pick up your under the radar player. This offseason is going to be fun, next year is going to be fun. If we can get rid of Gordon and pick up cap space next year and still make the playoffs we will set ourselves up to be major players in 2015.

[Mythrol]

Who on that list is a star? Now who on that list is of the caliber of player we could get this offseason? Those aren't max guys, but they aren't MLE guys either.

Sign your guys to 1 year contracts that at most have a team option for the second year, but go and pick up your under the radar player. This offseason is going to be fun, next year is going to be fun. If we can get rid of Gordon and pick up cap space next year and still make the playoffs we will set ourselves up to be major players in 2015.

If Iggy can get almost 14m a year I see no way with the cap potentially rising by 15% that any of those, other than possibly Chandler get less than that. But who knows how high it will go with every team having that much increased cap. Maybe not their max but definitely very high to near max. And I've already said I'd focus on Deng. Others might say Monroe.

Major players for who? Wasn't the argument a few posts ago that we just need a solid Ryno level guy? Now we are setting ourselves up to be major players to sign a 7m/yr guy? Man. The people who are saying wait for 2015 sure do go back and forth between stances a lot. When talking about waiting it's always about the potential of that FA market but when pointed out it's not likely we get those big of names because of half the league going after them suddenly we just need another Ryno. We could get him this off-season in Ariza and the team would have an extra year together.

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[da ThRONe]

The guys this year - maybe Gortat or Luol Deng - will demand 10-12 mil per and the max we will have is 7 mil in cap room. There really are no needle movers this summer that will become free and the one or two that might will be out of our price range.

Huge step from guys like that or guys I mention for 2015 down to guys like Marvin Williams or Jordan Hill. Like the others, they are not superstars, but that is all they have in common. There are B and B+ players in 2015, even a few A-'s (Marc Gasol). This summer, you are talking about C's and C+'s for the money we have. That is a huge difference IMO

Here's the thing you are over looking. I'll speak for myself when I say it's only worth it if we are getting a fair price for those players. If we have to over spend then no the like's of Marvin Williams or Jordan Hill isn't worth getting. How ever if we can get a Jordon Hill for a deal that's around market value and fill a hole why wait and hope to take a low percentage chance IMO at signing someone better?

If the main selling points is "Hey come play with Davis" that's much more likely to be appealing to guys like Okafor, Ariza, Deng, Hill, Williams, and/or Gortat than it is to guys like Jordan, Parsons, Harris, Leonard, Butler, Vucevic, Green or Hibbert. Most of those guys are in better situation to win right now anyways. These guys are going to more than likely be looking to cash in on probably the biggest contracts they'll get in their careers and/or places where they can put up numbers to set themselves up for the following contract. If the "core 4" is set and that's who we live and die with the goal should be to add more affordable quality role players. Not chasing big splash FA when we don't have the best situation to offer young vets.

Again if we can secure the service of a quality role player that fills some holes on this team this off season for market value I see no reason to not pull the trigger.

[UNO Gracias]

Ariza is not a Ryno or Reke type player. He is a C+ player. Marvin Williams a C. Reke and Ryno are B+ players both. Don't sell me an out house and say it's beach front property. Ariza gets moved around so much because he isn't more than a C player. Parsons, Butler, Young, Vucavic all are young B players with the potential to trend higher. We can get those type players. We have in the past, we will in the future. Those aren't max contract guys, but you won't afford then if you are throwing $5 mil or whatever at the Ariza's and Williams' of the world. Stand pat with what you have (we are going to make the playoffs next year), and the following year take that momentum and sell it to one of those guys. You will find takers, and you won't be stuck with James Posey/ Mo Pete Deaux.

[da ThRONe]

Ariza is not a Ryno or Reke type player. He is a C+ player. Marvin Williams a C. Reke and Ryno are B+ players both. Don't sell me an out house and say it's beach front property. Ariza gets moved around so much because he isn't more than a C player. Parsons, Butler, Young, Vucavic all are young B players with the potential to trend higher. We can get those type players. We have in the past, we will in the future. Those aren't max contract guys, but you won't afford then if you are throwing $5 mil or whatever at the Ariza's and Williams' of the world. Stand pat with what you have (we are going to make the playoffs next year), and the following year take that momentum and sell it to one of those guys. You will find takers, and you won't be stuck with James Posey/ Mo Pete Deaux.

First I don't think Evans or Anderson are B+ players that just get that out of the way. Next even if we were to agree both are graded that high they weren't when they were on the market so saying it is talking with the gift of hindsight.

The CBA has changed teams can't afford a bunch of B's especially not this one. You need C- to C+ player that compliment your B- to A+ players in your core. The problem with James Posey and Mo Pete centered around fit and cost. Not necessarily the caliber of players they were.

[UNO Gracias]

Agree to disagree on talent evaluation, both of those guys are the ancillary parts we need. Del has shown he can land C and C plus bench players (had we been healthy and not relied on our bench to play starter roles people would have said our bench was great). Get another player as I mentioned and we are in a whole different ball park.

I like where your heads at, it's just the caliber of player we are talking is different. We are a couple of players away, and we both believe we can get them, it's just I believe we need one more strong player as opposed to an Ariza.

[kclaboy504]

First I don't think Evans or Anderson are B+ players that just get that out of the way. Next even if we were to agree both are graded that high they weren't when they were on the market so saying it is talking with the gift of hindsight.

The CBA has changed teams can't afford a bunch of B's especially not this one. You need C- to C+ player that compliment your B- to A+ players in your core. The problem with James Posey and Mo Pete centered around fit and cost. Not necessarily the caliber of players they were.

I disagree. Tyreke and ryno were def B+ players before coming here. Ryno isn't doing anything different here than he was in Orlando. He was just written off as "must be cause of Howard" type player. He was in his shadow but still producing like he is here. Reke was/is no doubt a. B+ player.

[kclaboy504]

Kawhi leonard would be a home run dream come true.

[Mythrol]

Agree to disagree on talent evaluation, both of those guys are the ancillary parts we need. Del has shown he can land C and C plus bench players (had we been healthy and not relied on our bench to play starter roles people would have said our bench was great). Get another player as I mentioned and we are in a whole different ball park.

I like where your heads at, it's just the caliber of player we are talking is different. We are a couple of players away, and we both believe we can get them, it's just I believe we need one more strong player as opposed to an Ariza.

That's where the misunderstanding is. I agree we need one more slightly bigger piece than Ariza. I'm just for doing it this summer instead of next when there's more competition and higher prices.

And if we were to wait until next summer, I don't think signing Ariza would affect our ability to sign the level of player you are talking about. Stretching Gordon clears at least 9M and the cap rises another 4-5M. The only reason we need max level of cap is if we go after Max level players. That's my whole problem with the wait till 2015 argument. Everyone is saying we don't need that level of player, then why are we trying to keep all of that money for the summer? Bring in an Ariza to fill the gaping whole at SF and then in 2015 when teams are overpaying, toy have a valuable trade chip in a good player on a great contract. Instead of sitting there with trash make proactive moves that can be flipped if needed in the future.


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[Pelicans78]

Nobody came here to play with Paul, nobody went to Toronto to play with Bosh, nobody went to San Antonio to play with Duncan, nobody went to Cleveland to play with LeBron. Even if Davis turns into a megastar perennial MVP candidate that hasn't proven to be a quality recruiting tool.

The Hornets didn't have cap room to bring in anyone after they traded for Chandler, signed Peja, and later signed Posey.