Projected Cap Increase and What It Means for the Pelicans

[MichaelMcNamara]

That's where the misunderstanding is. I agree we need one more slightly bigger piece than Ariza. I'm just for doing it this summer instead of next when there's more competition and higher prices.

And if we were to wait until next summer, I don't think signing Ariza would affect our ability to sign the level of player you are talking about. Stretching Gordon clears at least 9M and the cap rises another 4-5M. The only reason we need max level of cap is if we go after Max level players. That's my whole problem with the wait till 2015 argument. Everyone is saying we don't need that level of player, then why are we trying to keep all of that money for the summer? Bring in an Ariza to fill the gaping whole at SF and then in 2015 when teams are overpaying, toy have a valuable trade chip in a good player on a great contract. Instead of sitting there with trash make proactive moves that can be flipped if needed in the future.


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But there is no "slightly bigger piece than Ariza" that is out there this year that can be had for less than 7 mil. Thats the whole point.

[PelicanFever]

Dell does not have the job security to wait until 2015 anymore. He has to do everything he can to put the best product out on the floor for the upcoming season. We would all do the same if we were in the same position and our job was on the line.

I mean it might be fun to talk about what the best approach is but when it comes down to it, we should all know that Dell is not going to wait until 2015.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Dell does not have the job security to wait until 2015 anymore. He has to do everything he can to put the best product out on the floor for the upcoming season. We would all do the same if we were in the same position and our job was on the line.

I mean it might be fun to talk about what the best approach is but when it comes down to it, we should all know that Dell is not going to wait until 2015.

The dream scenario is that he does both. If he can move Gordon for an expiring contract that can play (Tyson, Amare, Boozer, Wilson Chandler, etc.) then we can both be good next year AND have plenty of space for 2015.

Also, if Dell goes to Benson and Loomis and shows them the guys available in 2015 and the money we could have - lays the whole plan out for them - and they say, "Nah, we would rather get half the player this summer. You know, because this teams' window is so small and all." Then, they are bad businessmen and we have no hope moving forward regardless. Their resume for the Saints dont make me feel this is true, however.

And before people give me the "win now" argument because of last summer - they were picking up 23 yr old quasi All-Stars instead of selecting from a terrible draft class. Not exactly the same as rushing to go get average players like Marvin Williams instead of waiting a year to get another quasi All-Star

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Its been confirmed.
The cap will increase 5M.

Hoopshype.com

[greewe]

Its been confirmed.
The cap will increase 5M.

Hoopshype.com

Won't be official until the league audit in early July. These are just projections from the league. Likely accurate give or take a bit, but not official.

[greewe]

Those advocating Marvin Williams: Why not sign him to a 1 year, $7 million deal? Similar to what we did with Landry a while back. Promise him the starting job and a chance to earn a bigger deal next offseason. You get to try him for a year, and if you strike out in 2015, you can sign him to a long-term deal if you liked what he gave you.

We can still participate in FA this year without taking ourselves out of 2015. I don't think it has to be one or the other.

[da ThRONe]

Those advocating Marvin Williams: Why not sign him to a 1 year, $7 million deal? Similar to what we did with Landry a while back. Promise him the starting job and a chance to earn a bigger deal next offseason. You get to try him for a year, and if you strike out in 2015, you can sign him to a long-term deal if you liked what he gave you.

We can still participate in FA this year without taking ourselves out of 2015. I don't think it has to be one or the other.

If we can get a "Marvin Williams" type player on a shorten deal great. I just don't think at this stage those kind of guys will wants a short term deal.

[Mythrol]

But there is no "slightly bigger piece than Ariza" that is out there this year that can be had for less than 7 mil. Thats the whole point.

I doubt there are bigger pieces next year you'll be able to get for less than 7m too. Especially if the cap increases by nearly 15%. I'm talking about doing what is necessary to go after the bigger piece this summer and sign Deng.

In the world where we wait until 2015 I do not agree with putting a bunch of scrubs on 1 year deals to going into FA with a big pill of cash until to sign a Ryno level player. I'd rather sign someone like Ariza, have a much better player, and then go into 2015 with an already built team looking to then get the player we need to push us over the top. I don't see us as 1 player away and I think it would be silly to not make a move this summer just off the possibility of next year's FA. To me that is the same as people saying we did a bad trade when we moved Noel and a mystery pick for Jrue because of the "potential" of the pick in this "deep" draft.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I doubt there are bigger pieces next year you'll be able to get for less than 7m too. Especially if the cap increases by nearly 15%. I'm talking about doing what is necessary to go after the bigger piece this summer and sign Deng.

In the world where we wait until 2015 I do not agree with putting a bunch of scrubs on 1 year deals to going into FA with a big pill of cash until to sign a Ryno level player. I'd rather sign someone like Ariza, have a much better player, and then go into 2015 with an already built team looking to then get the player we need to push us over the top. I don't see us as 1 player away and I think it would be silly to not make a move this summer just off the possibility of next year's FA. To me that is the same as people saying we did a bad trade when we moved Noel and a mystery pick for Jrue because of the "potential" of the pick in this "deep" draft.

The only way that is even possible is to move Gordon - something we universally agree will be nearly impossible; especially if you are saying you want to trade Gordon AND save money.

If you are talking stretch provision, then maybe, but that is something I just don't think we do. Not this year at least.

I guess, lets be clear: If we can sign the following guys, I would sacrifice money for future years to do so:

Deng
Hawes
Varejao
Gortat
PJ Tucker
Monroe
Hayward
Thabo Sefolosha

But on that list, I think Tucker, Sefolosha and maybe Varejao and Hawes get 7 mil per or less. Sure, go after them. My point is, if you strike out, don't settle for a Marvin Williams or a Jordan Hill. Resign Morrow, Smith instead and then create a competition of one year guys by bringing back Miller, signing James Jones, and Brandon Rush.

[Mythrol]

The only way that is even possible is to move Gordon - something we universally agree will be nearly impossible; especially if you are saying you want to trade Gordon AND save money.

If you are talking stretch provision, then maybe, but that is something I just don't think we do. Not this year at least.

I guess, lets be clear: If we can sign the following guys, I would sacrifice money for future years to do so:

Deng
Hawes
Varejao
Gortat
PJ Tucker
Monroe
Hayward
Thabo Sefolosha

But on that list, I think Tucker, Sefolosha and maybe Varejao and Hawes get 7 mil per or less. Sure, go after them. My point is, if you strike out, don't settle for a Marvin Williams or a Jordan Hill. Resign Morrow, Smith instead and then create a competition of one year guys by bringing back Miller, signing James Jones, and Brandon Rush.

I agree with this stance. That's where the argument was coming from. Because people were saying sign 1 yr deals and go big for next offseason because there was more talent, but I actually think it's easier to get the talent we need this year because of all the teams trying to wait until 2015.

I would hate to sit back and do nothing this offseason and pass on one of the above guys simply to have more cap to potentially just sign a guy at this same level next year. At best we get a player we need a year early. Worse is we strike out this summer and we are still in position to go after players in 2015.

[da ThRONe]

The only way that is even possible is to move Gordon - something we universally agree will be nearly impossible; especially if you are saying you want to trade Gordon AND save money.

If you are talking stretch provision, then maybe, but that is something I just don't think we do. Not this year at least.

I guess, lets be clear: If we can sign the following guys, I would sacrifice money for future years to do so:

Deng
Hawes
Varejao
Gortat
PJ Tucker
Monroe
Hayward
Thabo Sefolosha

But on that list, I think Tucker, Sefolosha and maybe Varejao and Hawes get 7 mil per or less. Sure, go after them. My point is, if you strike out, don't settle for a Marvin Williams or a Jordan Hill. Resign Morrow, Smith instead and then create a competition of one year guys by bringing back Miller, signing James Jones, and Brandon Rush.

So how is our cap situation much more different next off season as you suggest we wait? Gordon contract more is out of our hands if we don't use the stretch provision, and he due his contract tops out.

That why I'm saying if we can find quality at a fair price this off season why wait?

[MichaelMcNamara]

So how is our cap situation much more different next off season as you suggest we wait? Gordon contract more is out of our hands if we don't use the stretch provision, and he due his contract tops out.

That why I'm saying if we can find quality at a fair price this off season why wait?

Cap would increase an additional 4 mil according to projections and worst case scenario, we cut 10 mil via the stretch provision. Best case scenario, we cut 15 mil if Gordon is traded for an expiring or opts out.

So, an extra 14-19 mil in cap space vs. this year. Pretty big difference, no?

[da ThRONe]

Cap would increase an additional 4 mil according to projections and worst case scenario, we cut 10 mil via the stretch provision. Best case scenario, we cut 15 mil if Gordon is traded for an expiring or opts out.

So, an extra 14-19 mil in cap space vs. this year. Pretty big difference, no?

Again the cap is going up this year and that same cap space will be available for all teams. Like wise as you mentioned the stretch provision is available this year like it is for next year. So if we don't use it now there's a chance we don't use it later either.

Everything you mention is available this off season as well as the next. If we can fill a hole with a decent player at the appropriate price why wait?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Again the cap is going up this year and that same cap space will be available for all teams. Like wise as you mentioned the stretch provision is available this year like it is for next year. So if we don't use it now there's a chance we don't use it later either.

Everything you mention is available this off season as well as the next. If we can fill a hole with a decent player at the appropriate price why wait?

If we use the stretch this year, the money stretches over 5 years and the per year is slightly higher. 30 mil of dead money to eat is vastly different from eating 15. And stretching it over 5 is different than stretching it over 3.

And cap goes up ANOTHER 4 mil, on top of the 5 this year. So, no it is different. Stretch Gordon this year and the most we get under the cap is 15 mil. Stretch him next year and it is 20 mil. And again, the dead money would stretch into 2019 if we did it this year. Would stretch into 2018 if we did it next year.

But your last question is true: If we can find the right guy, why wait? Agree. But again, not too many "right guys" in this years class. A ton of them in next years class.

[da ThRONe]

If we use the stretch this year, the money stretches over 5 years and the per year is slightly higher. 30 mil of dead money to eat is vastly different from eating 15. And stretching it over 5 is different than stretching it over 3.

And cap goes up ANOTHER 4 mil, on top of the 5 this year. So, no it is different. Stretch Gordon this year and the most we get under the cap is 15 mil. Stretch him next year and it is 20 mil. And again, the dead money would stretch into 2019 if we did it this year. Would stretch into 2018 if we did it next year.

But your last question is true: If we can find the right guy, why wait? Agree. But again, not too many "right guys" in this years class. A ton of them in next years class.

I think the disconnect is you think we have something to offer the good young FA's. For me I immediately consider them looooong shots.

Also the increase in cap space will be league wide. Therefore every team will be vying for those vets. For a guy that likes to zig when everyone else zag you are talking about zagging with all the other teams.

[MichaelMcNamara]

So, how did we get Ryno and Evans then? When we had even less to offer?

How could we do that with less money and less to offer personnel wise, but now all of a sudden similar players are long shots with more money and a better chance to win to offer?


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[da ThRONe]

So, how did we get Ryno and Evans then? When we had even less to offer?

How could we do that with less money and less to offer personnel wise, but now all of a sudden similar players are long shots with more money and a better chance to win to offer?


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There's wasn't a frenzy for Anderson or Evans. Plus we gave Tyreke a 8 figure per year deal.

The reason that IMO we are a less desirable destination is because we have a bunch of young vets that all will be looking to score.

Again why would a young vet come here to play 4th or 5th banana on this team? When they'll be teams out there with much more cap space and the chance to be the "man" or at the least a "Robin" type for another team, or teams that are in better position to win now.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Well, I know you still doubt AD. I think he will be considered by everyone (except possibly you) a top 5 player next season. Therefore, I don't think guys will see many places that are in a better position to win one year from now. Guess we will know for sure then.

[BallSoHard]

I'd think a young vet thats a shooter mainly (for the 3 spot) would be able to see through the 4th or 5th banana nonsense knowing Ad is drawing Doubles, reke can drive and kick to him, etc. Cash is cash and if we can't out bid or match within reason i doubt we win the player regardless. We're not talking about signing the next big thing. We need a complimentary piece. And TBH is the young vet we're getting is a complimentary piece and doesn't know it himself, we don't want him because that would be a nightmare.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Exactly. I can't imagine a guy like Jimmy Butler turning us down because he wants to hoist shots on a bad team.

[da ThRONe]

Well, I know you still doubt AD. I think he will be considered by everyone (except possibly you) a top 5 player next season. Therefore, I don't think guys will see many places that are in a better position to win one year from now. Guess we will know for sure then.

Again when has this been a major recruiting tool regardless of how I rank Davis? Young vets care about money, market, and their own numbers ahead of winning. If Cleveland couldn't attract people with LeBron an all the great player already doubt people will flock to play with Davis.

[da ThRONe]

I'd think a young vet thats a shooter mainly (for the 3 spot) would be able to see through the 4th or 5th banana nonsense knowing Ad is drawing Doubles, reke can drive and kick to him, etc. Cash is cash and if we can't out bid or match within reason i doubt we win the player regardless. We're not talking about signing the next big thing. We need a complimentary piece. And TBH is the young vet we're getting is a complimentary piece and doesn't know it himself, we don't want him because that would be a nightmare.

You are making my point. If we can get that guy this off season at a reasonable price why wait? MM is talking about young Vets that are going to likely be looking for a bigger role if they leave their current teams. Why would Jimmy Butler leave the Chicago market to come here to make similar money and have a similar role?

[BallSoHard]

You are making my point. If we can get that guy this off season at a reasonable price why wait? MM is talking about young Vets that are going to likely be looking for a bigger role if they leave their current teams. Why would Jimmy Butler leave the Chicago market to come here to make similar money and have a similar role?

Well, I'm not sure guys like Jimmy Butler really become that much more marketable in a big city. Whether they see it that way or not is another story. I think market size really only matters for the top 3 tiers of player. I think a guy like Butler is on the fringe on a guy we can or can't obtain in terms of the money/marketability/player role mix. I do think moving Gordon would certainly help the player role piece for us. That has to be priority #1 for the Pelicans.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Again when has this been a major recruiting tool regardless of how I rank Davis? Young vets care about money, market, and their own numbers ahead of winning. If Cleveland couldn't attract people with LeBron an all the great player already doubt people will flock to play with Davis.

You keep switching it. You said some guys want to win and that will be a factor in their decision making. I didn't say anything about Davis as a recruiting tool. I said that guys will see a real chance to win after what the Pels do next year.

[BallSoHard]

You keep switching it. You said some guys want to win and that will be a factor in their decision making. I didn't say anything about Davis as a recruiting tool. I said that guys will see a real chance to win after what the Pels do next year.

Thats a really important point on going after that final piece of the puzzle this year versus next year; but it all depends on how we do.