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haha well he is a great finisher! he was clearly not used in the right role for a lot of the season with bad line ups around him, we all know this, plus the whole bench role with 25mins a night clearly threw him off. Once in the starting role this year, he shot 51% in march and 47.6% in April! He should obviously work to continue to get better at it(finishing at the rim) but in no way should it be his top priority this offseasonOriginally Posted by Perth_Hornet
never assume
When he went off and scored 41 in his career game against OKC Tyreke missed 6 of 7 from beyond 13 ft and 5 of 6 from beyond 24 ft. This means he made 13 of 19 from close range and 12 of 16 free throw attempts. If he can make 69% of his close range shots and only 14 % of his mid-range and long range shots why should he even take those? Plus going to the line is a good thing if you can hit 75%. Add 9 Rebounds, 8 assist and 3 steals which arguably could have been better and this is his blueprint. Starting & with a better lineup plus an unselfish PG in Jrue I think Tyreke's value is in owning who he is. So definitely agree with article.
With a healthy squad his bread and butter will be getting to the rim to either score or dish.
He won't need to be parked at the 3 point line for any good reason.
How about the low post? What scares the opposition more - Tyreke taking one of their guards down there or an average jumper?
@mcnamara247
well clearly yea he is better in the low post. But I am just saying he is going to work on more than one thing this offseason, he won't work solely on the post or jumper, but he should focus on where he has the most realistic room for improvement. I think the times he does shoot, because he will eventually have to shoot the ball or will get wide open outside shots, it would benefit our team tremendously, especially in the post season, if he was to hit a shot more than 20-30% of the time. I like your point that 5% increase at the rim would be much more beneficial than 5% outside, but being a 60% career finisher from 0-3ft he is only going to 5% better maybe, there is much more room for improvement in other areas. I don't think it is outside the realm of possibility that he can shoot much closer to league average from 3 or midrange, might take more than one offseason but still.
As long as he comes back nest season close to the form he finished the season in and far away from the form he started this season in I'll be happy, he is already a great player to have
Last edited by jgman; 04-17-2014 at 07:31 PM.
When he went off for 41 points in his career game against OKC he shot 1 of 7 from beyond 13 feet and 1 of 6 from beyond 24 feet. He always seems to be leaning away when he takes a jump shot even when not contested. He shot almost 69% from close range on 13 of 19 shots and hit 75 % of 16 free throw shots. Not to mention 9 rebounds, 8 assists and 3 steals with only one turnover. He accomplished this without any other starters in the lineup. He only made 3 points on 7 shots from mid range and long range but scored 38 points on close range and free throw shots. This is Tyreke's blueprint for success. Putting him in as a starter with an unselfish Jrue feeding assists and vice-versa is his ticket to success.
Contributor
yes to this
If you read my articles or listen to the podcast, you probably know that I think that ‘a bigger Rajon Rondo’ is the best player comparison for Tyreke. They are two guys who can get into the paint at will, rebound well for guards, are terrors in the open court, and can get their teammates easy looks. For years, people said that Rondo needed only a better jump shot to make himself an elite guard. But guess what happened? He improved that shot and has now started to fall in love with it and because of that we just witnessed the least efficient season of his career.
Coming into this season, Rondo’s three-point rate was under 6 percent. This season, it is at nearly 26 percent! At his peak, he was taking nearly 56% of his shots within three feet of the basket. This season, just 32.6% of his shots are from within three feet. And it’s no surprise that with more threes and less shots at the rim, his free throw rate has plummeted as well – from as high as 41% his rookie year to just 19% this year.
While I agree with Rondo comparisons, using this season with almost an entire new cast of players around him while coming off injury and pretending that isnt the reason for his drop in efficiency and instead is him falling in love with his jumper really is off the mark. Big time.
Rondo falling in love with his jumper is not at all the only or main reason for a drop in efficiency and I question you for not noting that. Thats actually an embarrassing mistake for someone who writes for ESPN. This is what happens when people fall in love with stats instead of watching & understanding what is actually happening with a team or player.
Last edited by SilkySlim; 04-18-2014 at 12:10 AM.
One game is meaningless compared to 5 years of data. The data clearly shows the seasons he took his most shots at the rim the lower his FG % from around the rim was.
I think him missing those jumpers are the exact reason he should work on them. He's never going to take 100% of his shots at the rim. And I don't think it's realistic for him to spend the majority of his summer working on a skill he's already over 60% for his career. If he could have made 3 or 4 of those 7 that would have made his job a ton easier driving.
I do agree that shooters will help his game out. But when I'm imagining this summer and I'm thinking if doing 2000 layups or 2000 jumpers will help his game out more, it's the jumpers more than the layups that I want him doing.
Fans in Sac said more than that and they've watched far more of Reke than most here. He's already excellent at the rim and numbers would have been better this year if he didnt miss part of training camp and wasn't battling ankle issues early on. He missed a lot of shots at the rim he'd make his first 3 years.
What Reke needs is a mid range game. In the playoffs when the defense tightens up and teams have some of the better shotblockers and his avenue to the rim gets cut off, he needs runners, flip shots, a little stop and pop jumper like Westbrook has. You compare Reke to Rondo which I agree with but I'd compare him more to Wade, just a less athletic version. Wade added the midrange game and flip shots, so did Tony Parker. Derrick Rose had that too before his injuries. You need something when your path to the rim gets cut off. Wade still is terrible shooting 3's but his mid range game did help him out a lot.
I'd also say, if Reke plays PG next year, then a mid range game is more important to add as he'll be attacking from the top either in iso's or P&R's and will be getting into the lane, hopefully with shooters spreading the floor around him. But if he plays SG and Jrue is back, he'll be attacking more from the wing where a 3pt shot and ability to hit a jumper is more important and spacers/shooters spreading the floor don't have as much of a benefit from those spots. Yes PG/SG are just labels but in Monty's offense he generally has one single ball handler most of the time. Just look at how much time Reke spent watching Roberts running in circles up top and if Monty doesn't force Roberts to give Reke the ball, Jrue ant giving it up. It's not nearly split 50/50 and even then Reke needs to handle the ball more than any other guard he's out there with IF the goal is to play to his strengths. Cant go comparing him to Rondo while also wanting him playing SG and handling less than 50% of the time which is what you've done over the past month or two. If you think he's something like Rondo, you gotta give him the ball like Rondo up top and let him keep attacking. But we've seen many times he doesn't get much a chance to attack until Roberts is resting on the bench or Rivers shows he isn't having that good of a game.
Oh, the one thing Reke does need to improve on at the rim which he hasn't and you missed is his left hand.
Last edited by SilkySlim; 04-18-2014 at 12:11 AM.
My theory is that his ankle trouble kept him from elevating for much of the year, and hurt his finishing percentage. I hope he get those ankles right for the start of next year. I would not be surprised to hear about a minor surgery soon, although I hope he does not need it.
I am also glad to be rid of Stiemsma, and hope we get somebody that is an awesome rebounder to take his spot.
Interesting. Maybe that's it. He did only have 5 dunks this year compared to in the teens or more every other year. But, I've noticed that with every other player that's not a PF/C, they just don't dunk here. Austin Rivers won a HS dunk contest. He has mix tapes with him doing 360 dunks, and he only dunked 7 times this year - that's less than what Manu at 36 did this year. So maybe Monty coaches them to not dunk to save energy or something.
I don't want him doing 2000 layups. I want him working on his explosiveness; that will help him finish at the rim better IMO.
And if he hit "3 or 4" of those 7 three-pointers, he would be one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. That will never happen. At best, he will someday become a below avg three-point shooter. No thanks. I don't want him ever taking 7 threes in a game. He is listed as a guard, so people think he has to develop an outside shot, but I don't see it that way. I look at skill sets. We have a PF that takes 50% of his shots from deep, so that leaves room for a guard who hits the low post and dominates.
If you are an opposing coach, what scares you more - this Tyreke with an average jump shot or this Tyreke with more explosiveness and a low post game?
So are you suggesting Tyreke take 100% of his shots around the rim? Because your entire argument seems to say he's so bad at jumpers that he shouldn't focus on them. But I think the exact opposite way. He's always going to take some. He NEEDS to, to be better at the rim.
You compared him to Rondo but he actually gets less efficient the more shots he takes at the rim. That's the exact opposite of Rondo according to your article. Tyreke actually fits exactly into the mold that you are trying to say he needs to not be. The seasons he took more jumpers the more he was efficient at the rim. This feeds directly into he should improve his jumper because he needs to take some. I'm sorry, I think you have an interesting idea but you just happened to miss a few stats that point to the exact opposite being the best way. Sadly, sometimes conventional wisdom IS right.
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Here is what I am saying:
People seem to say, "If his jumper is better, the lane opens up." That is just too simple for me. So, let me ask this - How good would Tyreke's jump shot have to become for defenses to actually play him different? To switch on pick and rolls or go under as opposed to just going under. I mean, if he improves by 5-8%, do we really think teams now all of a sudden play him differently? They will crowd him in isolation or switch on P&R's. Of course not So, then, how does the lane magically open up?
No, I do not want 100% of his shots at the rim. But people have to recognize the unintended consequences of his jump shot getting better. You can't make a human being work on something for hundreds of hours and then turn around and ask them to use it sparingly. That goes against our human nature - he will want to show off his hard work. I would rather him show off his hard work in the post. Again, NOWHERE in my article does it say he should never improve his jumper. Just that it should be his third priority behind 1.) Increased explosiveness 2.) Post game
I don't mind if people disagree; in fact I love it and the debate that follows. But please don't exaggerate or misread my argument and then debate that new, made up argument.
I read it... totally understand what you meant. Having more confidence in their shot, they would take more, and have their % drop. I get that.
The point of my post is that right now defenders sag off of him and bait him to take the jumper, and for the most part he still blows by them. But when defenders can sag off, then they can play off of him and help others... basically how they're playing Aminu now. Aminu's defender could care less about him making a jumper so they help elsewhere.
If Reke has a better jumper then the defender has to guard him. I don't think Reke will be the type of guy that's gonna take more jumpers... he knows his game is getting to the cup. Him having a better jumper will open up things for others was my point, because they can't play him like a scrub that can't shoot (like they're doing now).
I do think improving his spot up will help. But what I did see them do a lot with him off the ball at the end of this year is have him run baseline cuts and get some layups off passes from big men. Again, if he is being defended by guards and you have bigs in Ryno and AD who can shoot, there are so many ways to get him the ball near the basket.
What do you mean it is too simple for you? Yours is too complicated, you are making too many jumps as to why he shouldn't have the jumper as his first priority. He doesn't need to change the way defenses play him or how he plays, he won't try to show off his new found jumper, he isn't going to completely change how he plays because he has a slightly better shot. I want him to play the same way he is now but with a better outside shot, so the times he does take 7 3's he can make more than 1. If he improves 5-8% on the outside shots he does take, because he does take them, every single game, and teams don't change the way they defend him then great! That is a success. They straight up give him open looks now, if he could make a couple more of those shots he does take when they sag way way off of him or clog the paint too much then that is a great improvement, end of story.
Again how much more explosive is he going to get? No way should tyreke's number 1 priority be explosiveness, I just don't think you could possibly make a better argument for that than for jumper or post game. Post game sounds great, but he needs to add to his game, not focus on the one thing he already does really well. That is like saying Ryno's main priority this summer should be getting even better at 3's.
All the great players come into a new season with something added to or something improved on in their game. Jordan, Lebron, those guys came into the league able to get to the rim at will, every year they came back with more range and a better jump shot, it didn't change the way they played, it made them all time greats. Davis came in this year with a much more improved jumper, look what it did for him, he hasn't fallen in love with it or changed everything, it made him better. Ryno, from what we saw this year, added to his offensive repetoire and it didn't make him worse it made him better. I would love a post game or a jump shot, but he needs to add to his game, not work on explosiveness, thats the only thing I'm arguing, that he needs to add something(i.e. improve on something he doesn't do well). His finishing and explosiveness do not hurt our team, his lack of jump shot/post game does sometimes, especially when he starts to force up bad shots in traffic, so he should work on that first.
The "X does not hurt us" argument never sits well with me. Yes, he is very good at finishing at the rim (though several layup attempts have been blocked where dunks would have been points or free throws). I can't believe people can argue he can't get better; that he has reached his absolute max peak as a rim finisher. As I have said, the super elite guys can get up to 70, 72%. Yes, he does that at a B+ level, but why is it crazy to want to try to get that to an A? Especially if he takes so many shots there.
If I look at a guy who takes 6 shots from this spot and he is a B+ even at his best from them.
Then he takes 2 shots from that spot and is a D+ from there.
Now, I have the choice: Turn the B+ into an A or the D+ into a C, why would I change the D+?
All I want is for him to be able to hit the shots they dare him to take. A wide open jumper SHOULD be a higher percentage play than attacking 3 guys in the paint. In general I agree with your argument of maxing out his strength before working on his weakness.
Yep, I want everything to improve. I would just improve on the shot I take 600 times over the shot I take 100 times if I only got to pick one.
And a lineup of AD, Ryno, Jrue, and Morrow next to him should put an end to that whole three defender thing.
But I agree, I would love to see the jumper improve. Just want to see rim finishing and post game improve more.
Not that I disagree with your argument, but wouldn't it be more advantageous for Reke to improve his spot up 3pt shot in order for him to be a more attractive option for Jrue / Austin dribble drives? Or would we prefer him never being put in that situation?
here's a sobering thought, regardless of what has been said, what do you think reke will be looking to improve this off season based on the news we're hearing.
I actually think an easy way to improve his explosives is for him to lose a little weight and get fitter starting out the season, not his fault this start because of the able issues, but all things equal if he can do that, I think it'll work wonders
I think the jumper WILL be the primary focus. And that's fine - I am glad he will be working on something. But someday he will develop that post game, and that is where we will see a bigger leap IMO.
It will. I think as the season went on he got lighter, and folks forget that he had ankle problems all season long. So did he ever really get to the point where he was "in shape" and his ankle was a non-factor? I wonder...
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