Monty will return next year

[UNO Gracias]

So shooting better from 3 makes Morrow a better option to play than Anderson?
In case anyone here doesn't know, Rivers is still not good, he is shooting under 40% from the field and under 65% from the FT line again. everyone can see Roberts sucks, but does no one else see that Rivers isn't good either? Defense? sure, but if we were to give all roberts minutes to Rivers and Evans, then most all the minutes at the 3 would most likely go to Aminu, and we'd still suck
And where are you getting that Morrow, Gordon, Evans, STEAMER, Aminu, and AJINCA are in the top 15% of the league defensively? the only place I could find those numbers was your a**

As for Morrow, people say that Anderson's shooting stretched defenses. Anderson was no more a big man, than I am the Stay Puff Marshmellow Man. Morrow's shooting stretches defenses just as much as Anderson's (which would mkae them deadly if used together).

As for the defensive stats: http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...owsPerPage=100

And quit looking at my ***.

I do think we could have a better record but we are 10 and 1/2 games out of the 8th spot, no way in hell we should have ~10 more wins than we do right now. 5? That would still only put us at .500 and really no different than we are now, out of a pick and out of the lottery.

We are not an elite team, but we have losses we had no business losing, and few wins we had business winning.

We just can't blame injuries? why not?
36.1mpg of 19.8ppg, 6.5rbs, and one of the top stretch 4's and 3pt threats in the game, GONE
33.6mpg of 14.3ppg, 7.9apg, a former allstar and premiere defender, GONE
26.8mpg of 9.7ppg, 5.8rpg, our biggest veteran leader(been on the team longer than anyone else on the roster) GONE

I don't remember any of those guys helping us dominate before their injuries. We were still under .500 with Anderson and Jrue, and we aren't missing anything in Smith that we aren't getting from Ajinca and Withey. Injuries stink, but teams still stay relevant in spite of them. If we lost AD, then you have reason to put the blame on injuries, but the two guys we lost, you have to adapt or die, and we died.

and you think shuffling around two 2nd year players in Roberts and Rivers, neither of whom have any statistical evidence backing up the fact that they are anything but mediocre apart from Robert's FT%, and two front court players whose best qualities include being large and fouling, can fill Jrue, Anderson, and Smith's shoes well enough to compete for a playoff spot? Injuries are a HUGE reason why we have this record. Has Monty done a poor job? sure but come on lets be realistic

There was/has been ample time to work on finding a replacement at pg, but obviously the FO believes that what we have is adequate to get us to the playoffs. That is them saying we are who we are, a team that can do better, but isn't.

[UNO Gracias]

Alright I said that, but we were supposed to be battling for an 8 seed completely healthy. No way should we be a lock with what we've gone through. Just the Ryno injury is enough to push a team on the cusp off of it IMO.

We still should be battling for an 8th seed. This team should look like the 2005-2006 Hornets team. That team was in it til the end in spite of injuries.

[UNO Gracias]

What stat are you using on that page? The only one that, for me, makes sense to use is "Opp FGP at Rim" but why are you using that in the evaluation of Gordon, Evans, Morrow, and Aminu since they are perimeter players? Their ability to defend the rim means nearly nothing since they are never given that task.

I am using the defensive impact stat.

[BallSoHard]

We still should be battling for an 8th seed. This team should look like the 2005-2006 Hornets team. That team was in it til the end in spite of injuries.

The team that went 38-44 with Chris Paul and David West both missing a total of 10 games ?

[Kibner]

I am using the defensive impact stat.

I don't see that as a number anywhere. That link you gave me is sorted by total number of blocks. If I'm blind, please show me where.

e: Double checked again. http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...owsPerPage=100 just sorts by "Total BLK" then "Player". I don't see a Defensive Impact number anywhere.

[da ThRONe]

What else is he supposed to say though? If you say anything else, you might as well fire him now.

"We will evalute the situation at the end of the season." Or something to that effect. It's always best to give vague answers.

[jgman]

As for Morrow, people say that Anderson's shooting stretched defenses. Anderson was no more a big man, than I am the Stay Puff Marshmellow Man. Morrow's shooting stretches defenses just as much as Anderson's (which would mkae them deadly if used together).

As for the defensive stats: http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingD...owsPerPage=100

And quit looking at my ***.



We are not an elite team, but we have losses we had no business losing, and few wins we had business winning.



I don't remember any of those guys helping us dominate before their injuries. We were still under .500 with Anderson and Jrue, and we aren't missing anything in Smith that we aren't getting from Ajinca and Withey. Injuries stink, but teams still stay relevant in spite of them. If we lost AD, then you have reason to put the blame on injuries, but the two guys we lost, you have to adapt or die, and we died.



There was/has been ample time to work on finding a replacement at pg, but obviously the FO believes that what we have is adequate to get us to the playoffs. That is them saying we are who we are, a team that can do better, but isn't.

One, that link doesn't work, the one you posted on the last page is a ranking of players based on total steals, blocks, and opponents field goal % at the rim, which essentially means not that much and is in no way a complete measure of how good defensively anyone is, if you noticed, pretty much everyone is a big on the list, so when you say morrow, evans, and gordon are in the top 15%, that is coming out of your ***

Anderson is a big man not because of how he plays, but because he is literally, a big man, 6'10", he creates mismatches that morrow does not, he scores in ways morrow does not, they are not comparable players at all besides 3pt shooting

yes we have losses we shouldn't, we have wins we should, we also have wins we shouldn't too, that is how it is for every team

No those guys didn't help us "dominate" but it is pretty obvious we were better with those guys than without, and we were much closer to .500 than we are now

we had ample time to replace our allstar pg? with whom exactly? who was out there that could come in and play at jrue's level? there was no one because all those guys are on teams and we aren't going to trade pieces for a half season replacement

The FO believes what we have, when healthy, could compete for a playoff spot, they have never expressed anything else, especially not that we are who we are(as they have been looking for moves to improve our sf and c spots, this is pretty common knowledge)

You have made no valid points

[Mythrol]

My mind is blown that someone would say Anderson isn't a big. He sure as heck isn't a PG.

[UNO Gracias]

Anderson is a big man, but he isn't Tim Duncan, Jermaine O'Neil, or even Carl Landy. He is a big man like Peja, Andrea Bargniane(sp), and Channing Fry. He is a big in size only.

[Bongzilla]

I thought we would switch it up a bit and have a thread dedicated to reasons why you feel Monty Williams is a good coach and why he deserves to be with the Pelicans next year. This season it quickly became the "cool" thing to bash Monty as our season began swirling around the porcelain, but now I notice a shift in this forum's "group think" process. It has now become a fad to support Monty, but not really. I.E. most of the Monty support has been whittled down to - "he is going to be back no matter what so why bother." or "There is nobody to replace him with so we might as well stick with him." Obviously, neither of these examples are actually supporting Monty, moreover just accepting mediocrity for fear of something even worse. Many people are deathly afraid of change, in all facets of life, and it shows through here.

I am a man who can look in the mirror and admit fault. So, this thread is serious. Perhaps I have misjudged Monty? Perhaps there is something of merit that I am missing? Perhaps I am clouded by poor judgement? I am asking Monty supporters to explain to me and countless others, WHY? Why do you support Monty Williams? (Flygirl, Droopy Dawg, just to name a few of the avid defenders) (no offense please)

I have recently been called out for stating that the "vast majority" of Pelicans fans are finished with MW. As this claim is indeed quite difficult to prove, I figured this thread would give a slight glimpse to the accuracy of my statements. If this thread is littered with Monty support, then clearly I am wrong in my assessments.

Things that must be avoided in claims of Monty support:

1) Injuries - Injuries don't count and here is why. I am not concerned with the Pelicans record. I am concerned with the product being delivered. My issues rely to head coaching inadequacies, and while good players may mask some flaws, bad players will equally expose them. Also, injuries are a part of the game. Yes we have been depleted, our starting PG and 6th man. Those who add Smith only do so to attempt and strengthen their argument, as he is simply not a good player. But many teams are missing 2 of their top 6 players and are still having success. The bulls are missing their best player for reference. Even with injuries, we still have a top 10 player in the entire league, a max contract guy, and a ROY starting for us.

2) Monty's contract - Obviously his contract is not a reason of support. Many feel we will keep him for another year simply because of his extension, but again I am actually searching for reasons to support Monty, not tolerate him.

3) AD is 21 - So what. Yes he is a baby, but does that change what he is doing? He is one of the very best players in the world right now. His age is irrelevant. If we had a coach that would actually run our offense through him....wow. His usage rate is so low, just imagine....

4) Defensive scheme too complex for low IQ players - This one has been getting some traction lately and it burns me up big time! If Monty's scheme is too complex and he has been unwilling to adapt it to his players strengths, then that is the exact opposite of supporting Monty..... it is one of his greatest faults. In the business world it is really this simple - The manager (coach) must get results (wins or noticeable improvement). The GM/RVP(Dell) must provide his manager with the tools(players) needed for success. We have given this duo 4 years now, and the results are there, and they are bad. One or both most go IMO.

To me, this is Jim Haslett(Haslost) all over. For the non-Saints fans here (how dare you), Jimmy Haslett was once considered an "up and coming, defensive minded" coach. (sound familiar?) He breathed new life into the franchise and was our savior!!!! In his first year we went 10 and 6 and won our first ever playoff game!!!!!! Simply put, Jim Haslett was the man. After his first surprising year he proved to be a woefully average coach, being just good enough not to get fired (the comparisons are kinda scary eh?) He did the best he could with the disaster that was Katrina and ended up being fired. The Saints took a chance on a gentleman named SP, and the rest is history.

Allow me to propose this theory --- much like players, is it possible that head coaches are "figured out" the second time around????? Especial those as stubborn and resistant to change as Haslett and Williams???

Supporters, you are up. Why do you feel Monty Williams should be our coach next year?

[Kibner]

This thread won't prove or disprove your theory about the vast majority of fans disliking Monty. This board, despite the number of users, is very niche and only represents a small sub-section of fans. The only thing it will tell you is if the majority of the outspoken people on this board agree with you or not.

Also, people talk more when they are unhappy than vice versa. Either way, this isn't going to give you any kind of proof, one way or the other, on how the majority of the fanbase feels about Monty.

[Bongzilla]

Proving that fans like or dislike Monty is only a fraction of what this thread is about. The purpose is to provide a medium for Monty supporters to show why they support Monty, isn't this a debate forum?

Why has this thread been moved to the dump? Absolutely ridiculous and pathetic.

[j_bones]

I'm one of few that supports Monty. I think Monty is a coach that is on the rise, Basketball guru's could have offered anyone a job during the Olympics, but saw something in Monty and Thibs that this forum doesn't see. I love how during coaching huddles he's constantly teaching, Reke came from a team were he was only option until Cousins came into the pictures, so he's teaching him how to play as a unit than an individual. Same concept goes with other players on the team. I know we can't get hung up on this 3 game win streak, but I think Monty is understanding how to maximize his players and situations. He's highly praised in the league and can only go up from here, especially with AD and his players maturing each season. Yes, Monty is still a rookie coach, but he's open to learning! In Dell and Monty I trust.

[Bongzilla]

Thank you J_bones. I do agree that he is a good teach/player developer.

[FlyGirl]

I'm not a supporter/apologist nor do I hold disdain for him. At this point, I won't cry if he goes next week and I won't cry if he stays at least another season because I do think whatever move the FO will be making is what they think is best for this team. But, I really would like to see what he can do with this team relatively healthy. Only question with that is, will this team of particular players be able to sustain good health for a substantial amount of a season? I've seen some good from him (players seem to play hard for him, never seem to quit on him, and he appears to push his players to add to their games so they can be better players)and some not so good (don't always use best rotations, like, don't have all bench players in when the opposing team still has 2 or 3 of their main starters in, don't ride the hot hand long enough, although I know guys do need rest,). I've said it before that when the higher ups think it's time for Monty to go, then he'll be gone. I'm too old to sit and rant everyday all day about things out of my control. I'm going to go to as many games as I can and watch this team every chance I get and that's because I love my team and I love the game of basketball.

[UNO Gracias]

Anderson is a big man not because of how he plays, but because he is literally, a big man, 6'10", he creates mismatches that morrow does not, he scores in ways morrow does not, they are not comparable players at all besides 3pt shooting

People like you were on this very board saying that we were missing Ryno, not because of his inside game, but because he stretched the court. Morrows threat from the outside pulls whoever is in his zone, opening up for others. How are these things not alike? Because one is 6'5 and the other is 6'10?

yes we have losses we shouldn't, we have wins we should, we also have wins we shouldn't too, that is how it is for every team

No those guys didn't help us "dominate" but it is pretty obvious we were better with those guys than without, and we were much closer to .500 than we are now

We played better (thats for sure), but when a team losses key players they gameplan accordingly. Monty said "F this, square peg meet round hole."

we had ample time to replace our allstar pg? with whom exactly? who was out there that could come in and play at jrue's level? there was no one because all those guys are on teams and we aren't going to trade pieces for a half season replacement

You don't need a talent like Jrue to come in and replace Jrue. You play money ball. You find the right combination to come in and give you the mix you need to replace him. Jose Caldaron is the starting pg for the Mavs, and Dragic for the Suns, you don't need some all world talent to get you from point a to point b. Nobody was kicking down these guys doors when they were free agents. They just fit those teams systems.

And if your FO doesn't believe in their product enough to bring in a gun for higher towards the end of the season to get them over the hump, that just tells you that your FO has no idea what they have to do to get where they want to go.

The FO believes what we have, when healthy, could compete for a playoff spot, they have never expressed anything else, especially not that we are who we are(as they have been looking for moves to improve our sf and c spots, this is pretty common knowledge)

Yes, sf and center, not pg. You seem to think that by losing Jrue, Anderson, and Smith we should have no hope for the playoffs, but the front office doesn't think that way, otherwise they would have been going harder for pg's and pf's. Either they don't know what they are doing, or they believe we are set at pg.

You have made no valid points

Duly noted.

[UNO Gracias]

Monty being a coach on the USA mens basketball team means absolutely nothing to me. You know who else basketball gurus tabed for that same spot in the last few years? Nate McMillan, Mike D’Antoni, and P. J. Carlesimo.

[BallSoHard]

I thought we would switch it up a bit and have a thread dedicated to reasons why you feel Monty Williams is a good coach and why he deserves to be with the Pelicans next year. This season it quickly became the "cool" thing to bash Monty as our season began swirling around the porcelain, but now I notice a shift in this forum's "group think" process. It has now become a fad to support Monty, but not really. I.E. most of the Monty support has been whittled down to - "he is going to be back no matter what so why bother." or "There is nobody to replace him with so we might as well stick with him." Obviously, neither of these examples are actually supporting Monty, moreover just accepting mediocrity for fear of something even worse. Many people are deathly afraid of change, in all facets of life, and it shows through here.

I am a man who can look in the mirror and admit fault. So, this thread is serious. Perhaps I have misjudged Monty? Perhaps there is something of merit that I am missing? Perhaps I am clouded by poor judgement? I am asking Monty supporters to explain to me and countless others, WHY? Why do you support Monty Williams? (Flygirl, Droopy Dawg, just to name a few of the avid defenders) (no offense please)

I have recently been called out for stating that the "vast majority" of Pelicans fans are finished with MW. As this claim is indeed quite difficult to prove, I figured this thread would give a slight glimpse to the accuracy of my statements. If this thread is littered with Monty support, then clearly I am wrong in my assessments.

Things that must be avoided in claims of Monty support:

This is where i stopped reading. You're not interested in hear anyone else's opinon and reasoning, you're interested in starting a debate on your terms and making it impossible to be sided against. If the Heat lose Lebron Wade and Bosh that gets discounted if they don't make the playoffs? You just want to enter a bettle with a gun and tell your opponent they have to be unarmed.

[42]

This is where i stopped reading. You're not interested in hear anyone else's opinon and reasoning, you're interested in starting a debate on your terms and making it impossible to be sided against. If the Heat lose Lebron Wade and Bosh that gets discounted if they don't make the playoffs? You just want to enter a bettle with a gun and tell your opponent they have to be unarmed.

Noticed that, too, eh?

Standard tactic of the truly weak bully.

[Bongzilla]

42, quick question. Do you ever add anything of substance or just sit in the corner and occasional step out and say "That's not right." You are the back seat driver of this forum. While you call me a bully, I simply say you lack comprehension.

I listed things to avoid because my question was to give evidence for support, not reasons to defend. Clearly you follow the forums, so you should have been able to realize that I listed the main issues of support that continue to be hashed out in defense of Monty Williams. From this you should have then been able to infer that I am seeking a new take on Monty's coaching abilities, and trying to understand why some still have a high level of faith in our current head coach.

Would you like to address your stance on Monty Williams or will you continue to play pseudo-intellectual, semantic games with the way I phrase my questions?

[BallSoHard]

42, quick question. Do you ever add anything of substance or just sit in the corner and occasional step out and say "That's not right." You are the back seat driver of this forum. While you call me a bully, I simply say you lack comprehension.

I listed things to avoid because my question was to give evidence for support, not reasons to defend. Clearly you follow the forums, so you should have been able to realize that I listed the main issues of support that continue to be hashed out in defense of Monty Williams. From this you should have then been able to infer that I am seeking a new take on Monty's coaching abilities, and trying to understand why some still have a high level of faith in our current head coach.

Would you like to address your stance on Monty Williams or will you continue to play pseudo-intellectual, semantic games with the way I phrase my questions?

Again, if you really wanted to discuss, you wouldn't resort to name calling before the debate was already started. I have no patience for someone who resorts to name calling most especially before a debate even begins. Good luck on your quest.

[PolishFan]

I think the real problem is, is dismissing other's opinions as foolish, calling into people's basketball IQs and generally just being offensive in tone and dismissive of anyone else's argument. I don't think anyone on this forum would go up to bat for Monty Williams, but there are people that understand that there are circumstances that drive a result and understand a lot of those circumstances were out of Monty's control. To call them pitiful excuses really isn't fair. It's like saying, why didn't you win in a game of 1 on 1? I tore my Achilles Tendon when the score was 1-1. Then someone responding with, "That's a pathetic excuse". There's a lot of things to attack Monty on, and i've said it 100 times, if we bring in a better replacement I would be 100% fine with it; but to completely dismiss very real circumstance is not a fair thing to take away from the argument. I feel like a lot (not all) of the people beating the fire Monty drum have so much venom in their veigns on the subject that no good arguments come about. When you start saying someone's basketball iq is low or saying they're "utterly clueless" because you have a different opinion then the only way anyone would respond would be to take it personally and be defensive.

what is monty doing right? i mean what is he doing better than other coaches do?

[Mythrol]

People like you were on this very board saying that we were missing Ryno, not because of his inside game, but because he stretched the court. Morrows threat from the outside pulls whoever is in his zone, opening up for others. How are these things not alike? Because one is 6'5 and the other is 6'10?

Yes. The key difference is Morrow pulls guards, Anderson pulls the 4 or 5 out of the paint. Morrow's player can't play off of him but he would already be along the line anyway - Marrow basically stops players from cheating on him. Ryno's player has to leave the paint to guard him. He offers something totally different than Morrow. Ryno gives you 20-7 and makes the lane wide open. They do not give you the same thing. It's not even close. And I love Morrow.

[Silverfoxx]

Things really turn very personal on this forum. Lets not insult people charterers,intelligence, or opinions. Each person here has a right to state whatever they desire based upon the topic, lets all respect each others stance. If debated, lets provide reasoning without making everything so damn serious and emotional.


I love basketball, and i love this forum, but seriously you guys take this waaaaaaay to serious.

[jsl05]

42, quick question. Do you ever add anything of substance or just sit in the corner and occasional step out and say "That's not right." You are the back seat driver of this forum. While you call me a bully, I simply say you lack comprehension.

I listed things to avoid because my question was to give evidence for support, not reasons to defend. Clearly you follow the forums, so you should have been able to realize that I listed the main issues of support that continue to be hashed out in defense of Monty Williams. From this you should have then been able to infer that I am seeking a new take on Monty's coaching abilities, and trying to understand why some still have a high level of faith in our current head coach.

Would you like to address your stance on Monty Williams or will you continue to play pseudo-intellectual, semantic games with the way I phrase my questions?

He has given info about the smoothies at the SKC. There's that.