In Defense of Monty - A Theory

[ShamelessPel]

I can't believe I'm typing this post and starting this thread. I do, however, have a theory as to why Monty does what he does.

I'm beginning to think that the length of tenure is starting to wear thin here. Sometimes, guys just start tuning you and your shtick out. 3 years of losing basketball gets old, no matter how long you've been on the team.

The coaching this year has been worse than any of the other 3 seasons previous, and I'm sure the players have a lot to do with that aspect. It doesn't change the fact that the change needs to happen. His stubbornness this year is at an all-time high (as evidenced by the almost etched in stone rotations, both over the span of games and in-game). I wonder if that has to do with the team drowning him out. It is one of many possible explanations for his insistence on his initial decisions.

I can't possibly believe that any head coach in his right mind would watch tape and fail to realize what a turd-on-a-log Steimsma is. These players aren't blind. You have to think that they notice Steimsma is completely incompetent, Roberts couldn't stop the 50s-year-old Isiah Thomas, much less the new one, and Gordon/Reke should be running the offense more. There's obviously more. Don't even get me started on the hard-hedging. It's so bad, I can point examples from our seats out to the people I'm with as it's happening.

The effort on this team is in the youth. The youth is fighting to show they're ready (minus Davis who's just a complete stud on almost every human level). The "young vets" seem to be over it already. This is hardly the first game where Aminu, Gordon, Holiday, Tyreke looked like they could give 2 craps less about what's going on out there. Don't believe me? Look at the +/- from the last few games. Suddenly, our bench is actually an asset even though people keep pointing out our team is "full of D-Leaguers". Their words. Not mine.

Long story short. I'm not sure what Monty can do to fix what's happening at this point. It is probably in the best interest of both parties (including his own coaching career post-Pels) to part ways. It's going to take a winning streak of decent length (5 games minimum) to keep his job heading into next season. I just don't see it happening. These things happen over time. 3 seasons of .350 basketball will do that to you. We all know Monty is one prideful SOB. It certainly feels like he's making his last stand.

[Nosaint83]

Didn't see the game. but from checking the box score it looked like he finally gave Whithey some burn tonight and he showed what he can do. Took long enough.

[DroopyDawg]

Are you sure this is a "In defense of Monty" thread"? lol

All of the hoping, praying, voodoo dolls and rosary beads won't keep Monty form returning next year. Do we need a change? Maybe. but I doubt he gets canned. Now if we stink NEXT season, then yeah he might see him in the unemployment line.

[Davisistheman]

I didn't think Monty had a chance of losing his job going into the season or up until recently actually, because IMO Dell is not going to make that decision because it dings him as a GM probably. Mr. Benson isn't the type of owner (based on my preception of his dealing with the Saints) to be too heavy handed in running of the team (a la Mark Cuban) and Benson tries to trust the people he's put in place to make those determinations. The x-factor in this is Mickey Loomis. Mickey is 1) Smart when it comes to seeing through the B.S. and 2) Has the stones to call out when he see the B.S. and 3) understood to be one of Mr. Bensons closest dependable advisors. To a lesser extent the y-factor is Rita LeBlanc. She is being groomed to eventually take over as head of the Saints, I would assume the Pelicans are part of that. Just how much input she is having still remains a question. In short I can see Loomis advising Mr Benson that a change is needed.

[PolishFan]

Are you sure this is a "In defense of Monty" thread"? lol

All of the hoping, praying, voodoo dolls and rosary beads won't keep Monty form returning next year. Do we need a change? Maybe. but I doubt he gets canned. Now if we stink NEXT season, then yeah he might see him in the unemployment line.

So do you think he should stay? what is your opinion? u will probably say it doesn't matter so why you post here if you think your opinion doesn't matter?

[DroopyDawg]

So do you think he should stay? what is your opinion?

Yes... give him 1 more year with a (relatively) healthy team.

u will probably say it doesn't matter so why you post here if you think your opinion doesn't matter?

Everybody's "opinion" is just that... your opinion. Does any of them really matter? I mean seriously. Me personally... I like to hear everybody's opinion because its good for discussion, but when somebody goes off about people and it becomes personal then its no fun.

But at the end of the day... no my opinion doesn't "matter" nor does yours or anybody else's that post on fan forums.

[Sovereign]

What if I told you not every Pelicans fan blamed Monty Williams?

ESPN 30 for 30 presents "In Defense of Monty: A Theory"

[RaisingTheBar]

What if I told you not every Pelicans fan blamed Monty Williams?

ESPN 30 for 30 presents "In Defense of Monty: A Theory"

[MichaelMcNamara]

And what's wrong with having an opinion that says, "I don't know"

I mean, really, fans are privy to like 10-15 percent of all the data that should be used to make the decision. Don't see practices, don't see the game plan, don't see the amount of time and effort Monty puts in (or doesn't), don't know the long term plan of the organization, don't know the alternative options and what those guys want to do with the team or how much salary they demand, and don't know the exact goals trying to be accomplished, etc., etc.

We pressure people to make up their minds one way or the other, but honestly, we are looking at a giant room through the peephole. How are we supposed to form an entire opinion based on how little we see?

[BallSoHard]

And what's wrong with having an opinion that says, "I don't know"

I mean, really, fans are privy to like 10-15 percent of all the data that should be used to make the decision. Don't see practices, don't see the game plan, don't see the amount of time and effort Monty puts in (or doesn't), don't know the long term plan of the organization, don't know the alternative options and what those guys want to do with the team or how much salary they demand, and don't know the exact goals trying to be accomplished, etc., etc.

We pressure people to make up their minds one way or the other, but honestly, we are looking at a giant room through the peephole. How are we supposed to form an entire opinion based on how little we see?

BUT THE HEDGING. Seriously though I believe the same thing. Now to me it's apparent Monty isn't going to be an All-world type of coach in New Orleans. And I even believe a change in scenery may be best if we can find someone that we think can be better AND grow with the team (means i don't think George Karl is a good candidate); but the crucifying of Monty by people who know little to nothing about the x's and o's of basketball kills me. And just to make it clear i'm not singling you out shamelesspel because in the grand scheme of thing i know very very little compared to a guy like Monty or any other guy who's ascended into the ranks of NBA coaching, assistant or otherwise.

[Silverfoxx]

Monty im sure is prepared for whatever comes his way. The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is he is not eager to change some things up to show that he is willing to do anything to keep his job. To show fight, determination, or different gameplans would really do him justice.but to be honest, I just don't believe he even cared THAT much at this point. And teammates and players will realize that and not respect your word and turn on you.


I just feel like bringing back Monty would be a huge gamble for AD stay here and the franchise culture of pursuing success.

[ShamelessPel]

Didn't see the game. but from checking the box score it looked like he finally gave Whithey some burn tonight and he showed what he can do. Took long enough.

What if I told you after a stellar first half, Monty started Steimsma in the 3rd, brought Ajinca in to replace him, and THEN we saw Withey when he sat AD with us down ~20 again? That's not a hypothetical btw. It is actually what happened.

@MM - In this day and age, I don't think that's an accurate statement. Publicized advanced metrics, internet bloggers, forums, etc...10-15% might have been true back in the day. That number certainly has to be higher now. The fan that spends time on these sites is infinitely more knowledgeable than the fans from say, 10 years ago.

@BallSoHard - I think if you gave the average poster/STH the chance, you would realize that just by being subjected to bad basketball, they know more about basketball than you give them credit for. It's very easy to not notice things when you're winning. You're caught up in the emotion of the game. Spend 3 seasons in the arena/on TV watching a .350 team, you start finding ways to entertain yourself, especially games you're getting waxed.

Off topic - I've never heard so much heckling in the arena throughout games as we've seen lately. It's neat to see the fan base so impassioned that they'll yell at the top of their lungs at Monty.

[MichaelMcNamara]

What if I told you after a stellar first half, Monty started Steimsma in the 3rd, brought Ajinca in to replace him, and THEN we saw Withey when he sat AD with us down ~20 again? That's not a hypothetical btw. It is actually what happened.

@MM - In this day and age, I don't think that's an accurate statement. Publicized advanced metrics, internet bloggers, forums, etc...10-15% might have been true back in the day. That number certainly has to be higher now. The fan that spends time on these sites is infinitely more knowledgeable than the fans from say, 10 years ago.

@BallSoHard - I think if you gave the average poster/STH the chance, you would realize that just by being subjected to bad basketball, they know more about basketball than you give them credit for. It's very easy to not notice things when you're winning. You're caught up in the emotion of the game. Spend 3 seasons in the arena/on TV watching a .350 team, you start finding ways to entertain yourself, especially games you're getting waxed.

Off topic - I've never heard so much heckling in the arena throughout games as we've seen lately. It's neat to see the fan base so impassioned that they'll yell at the top of their lungs at Monty.

You know about what actually happens in the game, but you have no idea of where to lay the responsibility and where it lies. Imagine this: In practice, the guys hedge hard and execute all the rotations perfectly. Your defense is sufficating. When pressed in scenarios, the guys know all the rules of the defense inside and out. Then, come game time, they fall apart. I mean, a half second in a rotation is the difference between an elite defense and a bad one in this league.

Who's fault is that? Is Monty at fault for trusting that his players will do in a game what they did in practice? Should he go to them in practice and essentially tell them that he doesn't believe in them despite how well they seem to have it down; change the whole defense?

And people might roll their eyes and say that is unfair for me to give some extreme hypothetical, but I have been coaching for only two years now and this happens to me ALL THE TIME. Then, parents come up to me after games and say "Why did we do this? or Why did we do that?"

I have to explain to them that this was not what we worked on all month and that this one little mistake in the heat of the battle made the whole defense or the whole play look like an idiot drew it up.

As fans, we see the result, but we never see the process. I don't think we can make informed decisions with just the results.

[ShamelessPel]

You know about what actually happens in the game, but you have no idea of where to lay the responsibility and where it lies. Imagine this: In practice, the guys hedge hard and execute all the rotations perfectly. Your defense is sufficating. When pressed in scenarios, the guys know all the rules of the defense inside and out. Then, come game time, they fall apart. I mean, a half second in a rotation is the difference between an elite defense and a bad one in this league.

Who's fault is that? Is Monty at fault for trusting that his players will do in a game what they did in practice? Should he go to them in practice and essentially tell them that he doesn't believe in them despite how well they seem to have it down; change the whole defense?

And people might roll their eyes and say that is unfair for me to give some extreme hypothetical, but I have been coaching for only two years now and this happens to me ALL THE TIME. Then, parents come up to me after games and say "Why did we do this? or Why did we do that?"

I have to explain to them that this was not what we worked on all month and that this one little mistake in the heat of the battle made the whole defense or the whole play look like an idiot drew it up.

As fans, we see the result, but we never see the process. I don't think we can make informed decisions with just the results.

That makes sense. But what if you ran the same play for 3 months and the parents came up to you and asked why you continuously do something that's not working? You can say practice all you want. At that point, it's not a valid excuse. Just because it works when it's catered to your particular team doesn't mean it works on every athlete in the peewee league.

Using the same hard-hedging example, maybe hard-hedging looks FANTASTIC in practice against Brian Roberts and Austin Rivers. Great. It's not working in the games. Time to adjust and move on.

[PowerPel]

Monty seems like a great person off the court as well as a very religious person. Just not a very good coach. I'm sure if he gets fired or quits then an assistant job will be right around the corner. I'm sure Pop would take him back and show him what he is doing wrong. If Monty comes back next year then you probably will get empty arena, more fire Monty threads, and fake Monty twitter accounts. Quit feeling sorry for the man. It is a business.

[504ByrdGang]

Just seeing this guy standing on the side line make me sick. You see every coach we're up against up the whole game and yell at players who don't perform and play the one who do. Yet he sit down looking confused the whole game. The way the players played last night reflected how he looked uninterested. I also dont believe Dell is going to fire his buddy anytime soon too many excuses in his pocket.


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[MichaelMcNamara]

That makes sense. But what if you ran the same play for 3 months and the parents came up to you and asked why you continuously do something that's not working? You can say practice all you want. At that point, it's not a valid excuse. Just because it works when it's catered to your particular team doesn't mean it works on every athlete in the peewee league.

Using the same hard-hedging example, maybe hard-hedging looks FANTASTIC in practice against Brian Roberts and Austin Rivers. Great. It's not working in the games. Time to adjust and move on.

I tend to agree that his rotations are terrible. My only possible justification for those is that he wants young guys to CLEARLY beat veterans to earn those minutes. He wants to see how hungry and resilient they are. Will you whine about the league "not being fair" (cough, cough, Pierre Jackson) or will you work harder and make it so the coach can't afford not to play you?

Popular coaching tactic, used by Hall of Famers like Larry Brown. Am I sure that is what Monty is doing with Rivers and Withey? No, but he has told us he has used that tactic in the past - and guys like Marcus Thornton showed their true colors when he did.

As for your initial question - it would depend on my intention. Am I trying to win the game or the war? If I truly believe in a play or system and I see the big picture, I might keep running it even if it keeps failing. Only way to learn is through repitition and I know the kids will get it eventually. If its a physical abilities issue - no. I will not keep running an alley-oop play for a kid who can't jump. But most systems just require repitition.

Of the four major ways to play the P&R, hard hedging is the most difficult to execute. But I also think it can be the most effective if perfected. If I really believed in it, and the long term goal was to win a title in 3 or 4 years, I would personally stick with it

[504ByrdGang]

I tend to agree that his rotations are terrible. My only possible justification for those is that he wants young guys to CLEARLY beat veterans to earn those minutes. He wants to see how hungry and resilient they are. Will you whine about the league "not being fair" (cough, cough, Pierre Jackson) or will you work harder and make it so the coach can't afford not to play you?

Popular coaching tactic, used by Hall of Famers like Larry Brown. Am I sure that is what Monty is doing with Rivers and Withey? No, but he has told us he has used that tactic in the past - and guys like Marcus Thornton showed their true colors when he did.

As for your initial question - it would depend on my intention. Am I trying to win the game or the war? If I truly believe in a play or system and I see the big picture, I might keep running it even if it keeps failing. Only way to learn is through repitition and I know the kids will get it eventually. If its a physical abilities issue - no. I will not keep running an alley-oop play for a kid who can't jump. But most systems just require repitition.

Of the four major ways to play the P&R, hard hedging is the most difficult to execute. But I also think it can be the most effective if perfected. If I really believed in it, and the long term goal was to win a title in 3 or 4 years, I would personally stick with it

You're giving him way too much credit


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[MichaelMcNamara]

You're giving him way too much credit


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Okay, if you say so. Do you think it would be better to just assume that he is doing everything wrong in the process and that is the sole reason the results are what they are?

I don't think that is fair. It feels good to scream and yell and call the guy an idiot, but honestly, none of us know. We see the marathon runners at the end of the race with no idea what they did the previous 26 miles and judge them off that. The fact is that this is all the evidence we have. Maybe he should be fired, maybe not. But I don't think any of us are informed enough to truly have a knowledgeable opinion.

[504ByrdGang]

Okay, if you say so. Do you think it would be better to just assume that he is doing everything wrong in the process and that is the sole reason the results are what they are?

I don't think that is fair. It feels good to scream and yell and call the guy an idiot, but honestly, none of us know. We see the marathon runners at the end of the race with no idea what they did the previous 26 miles and judge them off that. The fact is that this is all the evidence we have. Maybe he should be fired, maybe not. But I don't think any of us are informed enough to truly have a knowledgeable opinion.

It's not like one or two players aren't picking up his schemes it's everyone. If it takes more than 2 years to learn a defensive scheme it's bad.


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[BallSoHard]

It's not like one or two players aren't picking up his schemes it's everyone. If it takes more than 2 years to learn a defensive scheme it's bad.


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It doesn't work like that. If 1 guy is messing up the whole scheme gets messed up.

Think of it like a safety who thinks he should blitz when he should playing cover two. the corner thinks he has help and lets him release to play the under and next thing you know it's a 60 yard TD pass.

[DefensiveMind]

You're giving him way too much credit


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Exactly. Monty defenders or realists or whatever love to give nuanced opinions of Monty's coaching style, when there is no hard evidence that he has a nuanced coaching style. The rubric just doesn't match up.

[PowerPel]

We've given him 4 years. How many more chances can we give him? Other teams would have canned him already.

[504ByrdGang]

I think he is just a stubborn guy who will stick to what he believes in. If a player is performing poor on court he will let them keep playing til they turn it around


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[PowerPel]

Yes people have told me that they are not going back to the games till the Head Coach is canned.