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If Pacers beat you with a very limited Hibbert, good for them. I don't see it.Originally Posted by Mythrol
Remember, Hibbert was very mediocre offensively all season and in the playoffs other than against Heat. Emeka Okafor destroyed this Heat team, going for 28 and 14 with us. That was an abberation for Hibbert. Look at Hibbert's entire body of work. He is nothing to be afraid of.
@mcnamara247
Completely agree. Hibbert has mass potential, but this long in the league and not consistent production means that's just who he is. A good big man, but he's no super-star like he's being painted. The Heat have nothing inside.
He's a really good defender but way to inconsistent on the offensive end. He knows how to use his length very well and understand the jumping straight up principle which is huge for a guy his size.
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Put it this way - When AD hits his prime, Hibbert will have WAY more trouble defending him than vice versa
Shouldn't really be planning your team on who you may or may not be playing in the finals regardless IMO.
Just because the West is easier doesn't mean it will be a cakewalk for a team with no post presence. You still have Memphis, Golden State, Lakers, Thunder, San Antonio to name a few.
I used Hibbert as an example of how much simply an Above Average Post player will cause trouble when you have no answer for him. Miami was fortunate to get out of there with a win because the Pacers destroyed them inside. How many games in a row did Hibbert go 20-10? 5 during that series?
During the regular season when you're playing different teams every week, sure P&R works fine. Maybe you need it to get to the playoffs. But people acting like no post presence is no problem will be mistaken during the games that matter.
Right now the Hornets player with the best low post offensive game is Greivis Vasquez, that's a big problem. An even bigger one if you plan on replacing him with an undersized PG. It's hard to move the ball when there is nobody on the inside to throw it to.
I thought Lopez was all offense? He's not our best low post guy?
Not really, sometimes he is ignored and he has a big offensive game but I don't think anybody is worried about him down low. Vasquez often has a big size advantage on opposing teams PG's that they have to deal with.
Against a center that is much closer to what AD projects to be than anybody Miami has (Tyson Chandler), Roy Hibbert averaged 13.3ppg on 47% shooting.
We remember what we last saw, and yes Hibbert was impressive against Miami, but there are a lot of teams without that big, bulky post presence and Hibbert was very average against them.
Why are you focused on Hibbert when I just rolled off a list of West teams that have a post presence that we will have to answer for.
Also, just because AD is projected doesn't mean he will reach that. We don't know yet if AD can keep weight on. It might be that he will never have the post presence of someone like Tyson Chandler on defense.
Because I honestly have no idea who you are talking about when you reference Golden State or OKC's post presence. Duncan will be gone in a year or two, Dwight has never developed a post game, and Gasol killed us from the high post/17 feet last year. He is more of a facilitator than a scorer. Honestly, I don't see anybody that worries me in the West in the post long term. Maybe DeMarcus Cousins if he puts it together, but it's Sacramento, so I am not too worried about them
I just like thinking that if fans are talking about all possibilities, then the Pelicans are doing so to.
Bogut / Lee. Perkins / Ibaka. Randolph / Gasol. Howard / Gasol.
AD and who are suppose to match up to them? Or is your hope everyone gets old before AD is ready? I'm sure others will arise. If you think we wont need a post player to compete, as I already mentioned one above average post player almost knocked Miami out of the playoffs. You still need a big body.
So, you are saying we need a true center to defend the beastly low post presence that is Andrew Bogut? Kendrick Perkins? I think we will have to agree to disagree there.
Marc Gasol, as I said is a facilitator and killed us from 17ft last year and if Dwight can beat a team with his low post game, good for him. Guy has been in the league forever and I still don't see a post move he can go to and score with regularly.
I agree with MM in that ideally, you'd like a center that can get out and snuff out a pick and roll, one quick enough to switch credibly onto a smaller player for short bursts of time, etc. Chandler is a great example of an ideal NBA defensive center; he's got an incredible length/athleticism/bulk combo that allows him to do those things as well as stand his ground against an opposing big in the post.
However, when I think about "post defense", I'd describe it as more of an all-encompassing "interior defense". Hibbert is tremendously valuable because teams have a LOT of difficulty finishing shots at the rim. Sure, he can do a good job defending a guy like Marc Gasol or Dwight Howard without a ton of help, but straight up "post D" is kinda a valuable but overrated skill today since there aren't a lot of dominant back to the basket centers. Miami got torn up by Hibbert because not only is Bosh a smaller C, but they wanted to play a 3 at the 4 (James) and their other PF options are very limited. This would be my question about adding a guy like a Zeller or a Hickson (as was discussed in another thread) ... both of those guys can help you in some aspects of defense because they can move, but I'm not sure either will be a help at the rim.
Still, I think with Davis, who most project to be a very special player defensively, you have a lot of flexibility as to what kind of big you put next to him. If Davis can be the type of shotblocker who truly scares people away from the basket, you might be able to afford to play a more offensively skilled big next to him (think Anderson, or West with Hibbert). The most extreme example was Dwight Howard in Orlando. The Magic surrounded him with shooters and offensively skilled guys and he was able to carry that defense more than respectable. Chandler (when healthy, unlike the postseason) is similar in New York. You can afford to play a guy like Melo at the 4 because teams can't expose you 'that much' inside with Tyson roaming.
Last edited by MonsterMash; 06-17-2013 at 08:42 PM.
What I'm saying is we will need a body we can throw at the bigger players which almost every team in the playoffs had. Maybe one day AD is that player. Maybe not however. Personally I don't think it's our biggest need though. We will get burned at SF far more than C.
See, I disagree. If we have AD and Ryno out there, the Thunder pull Perkins, they don't keep him out there and punish AD in the post with him. Same for Bogut.
I just don't see any big bodies that hurt us anywhere near as much as we hurt them if their coach is dumb enough to keep them out there besides maybe Cousins
I dislike all this "we need to match up with other teams" talk. Players evolve. Guys currently in the league will get better, guys will get worse, guys will come into the league.
If I was a coach/gm, I would have vision in my head about what the best way to build a basketball team is based on the style of basketball you think gives you the best chance to win a championship. After that, build the best team you can to fit that mold.
Worry about matchups, once you are actually matched up in the playoffs. At that time, develop a gameplan. I hate hypotheticals.
Worrying about other teams will divert you from the strategy you "should" have in mind.
I think great coaches get the best players possible and play to their strengths. Look at Pop. Slow, grind it out basketball for all those years, then he realized Parker was their best player and adjusted.
Just go get the best players and then play to their skill set. If Pekovic is the best guy we can get this summer, get him and play physical and big. If we can get Iggy and Jennings, go small and run.
Get the best players you can and then pick your style. Don't be dead set on a style and then go get players to fit that style, perhaps getting lesser players to accommodate that philosophy.
You don't think GSW puts Lee on Anderson and Bogut backs down AD all game long? It's not like GSW doesn't run. They have a fast pace and they do it with Bogut AND Lee.
I agree to an extent. I do think when you have the chance to get a "can't miss" talent, then you should adjust your style of play to them. However, the players you mentioned are basically role players IMO. Well, lets say they aren't "franchise" guys. I wouldn't go out and get jennings, even if he was the most talented pg on the market, and then adjust to a fast paced game if that's not the style I wanted to play.
But, i do see what your saying.
No, I don't. If the Warriors are going to Bogut for offense, that is a win for us. Take the ball out of the hands of Curry and give it to a guy who averaged 5.8 ppg on 45% shooting? Yes, please!!
IF we select Zeller, I highly doubt he stays @ his listed 230. To your specific example, Zeller (w/ 15 lbs added) and/or RLopez is MORE than capable of handling Bogut and most NBA 5's in the post. Also, Perk was overmatched last year in the finals when he was constantly put in PnR situations w/ Bosh playing center. MM's points are valid and hiding a "weak" post defender is much easier than hiding a big who can't hedge on the high PnR.
When you are good you make the other team adjust to you.
This is the mentality I would rather have. Like stated above, play whatever style fits our strengths and don't worry about what other teams do. You have to do what is best for this team.
This is a reason why I am very high on Len. Davis is better at the 4 and it will be forever, if ever, before Monty thinks he is big enough to play the 5 in long stretches. Len has the potential to be a good p-n-r defender and both of them together would defend the rim like no other team I can think of. We may hurt a bit at post defense but can you imagine those big slower centers trying to keep up with the both of them on a p-n-r offense? Both can rim run extremely well.
I feel with Lopez we currently try to adjust to the other team. With Len we will be able to force the issue.
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