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View Poll Results: What does it Take for us to become a contender?

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  • Patience- We just need to mature and add small pieces but our core is set

    21 26.58%
  • Half-Way There- We still missing a big piece (ie team 3rd best player)

    51 64.56%
  • A long way off- We still need to trade Gordon. This is going to be a long process.

    0 0%
  • Tank- This is for you Wisconsinhornet

    4 5.06%
  • Coaching Change- We need a new coach before we think about contending

    3 3.80%
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Thread: What does it take for us to become a contender

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Mason, Roberts, Henry, Thomas --- all get playing time on this team, even with Eric Gordon. Which of them can get even one minute on any playoff contender? I will even throw Rivers in there at this stage of his development.

    IMO, we have 6 actual NBA players on this roster and have to give 40-60 mins per game to a couple of guys who are completely overwhelmed. When one (or more) of our 6 guys gets hurt, that means we are up to 100+ minutes being played by significantly below replacement level players. Can't happen if you want to survive the grind of the 82 game season
    well roger mason play major minutes on the spurs for 2 season not too long ago...he even started 71 games one season for them

  2. #27
    Eric Gordon's return has really given me a different vantage point of things. If he's healthy, then this team fills a giant hole and is several steps closer to being a good team. As of now, we are loaded in the front court with Davis, Anderson, Lopez, and Smith, which gives us some flexibility in terms of trade assets. We are also likely to have a early to mid-lottery pick which will almost assuredly be BPA, granted we don't trade it away. Add in the large space of salary cap we will have to potentially draw in a high profile free agent (which Dell and Monty have alluded to in the past), then you have a very encouraging rebuild.

    The team probably wants Rivers to become the true starter at point guard by next season, but I think they will start to really make their intentions known (if they have any) later in the season if he begins to eat Vasquez's minutes. So, I don't think bringing in a free agent point guard is priority number one. However, there will be a veteran player at small forward by no later than the start of next season. I really feel like they're going to go hard after Andre Igoudala or Andrei Kirilenko as H247 has stated in their Missing Piece series.

    What concerns me most about this squad is the depth on the wings, or lack thereof. Whether Rivers or Vasquez comes off the bench at some point makes no difference because they'll have no one to really play with on the wings. Luckily, the likes of Aminu, Henry, Mason Jr., and McGuire all fall off the books next season. Brian Roberts and Darius Miller are both team options. The tricky part will be trying to find wings that can play well on a second unit even if they have very defined roles: 3-point shooting, driving ability, lock-down defense, etc. Right now, as McNamara stated above, we're playing with guys who are far below replacement level, and that's not something that a team that wants to contend will manage with. Whoever we draft in the first round will not be a starter next season, they may not even get much time off of the bench (or deserve it because it's a weak class), which makes our pick something that should be dangled in a package for a veteran player.

    In the end, I think the picture of the future starting lineup is beginning to become clearer, but the bench is an impossible mystery. But, given our flexibility, it's an exciting mystery. Cheers!

  3. #28
    Pretty cool. Mr. West's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Mason contributes and is a solid vet on this young team. You dont need 5 or 6 near all stars onone roster to contend. Just need to be top heavy so they really just need to add one more big money piece to get there imo. Look at OKC. Durant and Westbrook take about 70% of OKC's shots? Hornets role players arent all that bad, they just need a dependable facilitator, another legit all-star player, some maturity and about 50 added lbs between Davis and Rivers.
    Well ok. Glad we can agree on that. But I disagree that our role players are fine. Well, they're fine for us, but they wouldn't cut it on a contender. Shooters that can't really shoot or play D isnt a bench, just a group of guys. Memphis, NY, LAC, and Miami all are elite and have very good bench's off the top of my head, and I would argue that even OKC's role players are more useful than ours.

    But I was just mentioning the thing that I thought would be the easiest thing to correct. We need a starting SF and lots of time to learn and jell to contend.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by CP4MVP View Post
    well roger mason play major minutes on the spurs for 2 season not too long ago...he even started 71 games one season for them
    I am aware of what he did in the past. i am also aware that the Spurs let him go and didnt try to bring him back.

    Do you think Mason plays for the Spurs today? Is he in the 9 man rotation for any playoff team? Are any guys outside of our top 6?

    I havent gone through them all, but my first instinct is no. Even the Lakers, who have a horrible bench- I take Meeks over Mason, Ebanks over any of our SF's, Antawn over Lance, etc.
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  5. #30
    I still say we get Bledsoe and have him playing with Gordon and Rivers. We would have a great young back court with 3 guards who can cover and play both positions. Bledsoe would change our D's point of attack drastically. We need to either draft, trade, or pick up a SF and Center. Definitely a starter at SF and with Center just depending on if Davis grows and makes the move or what happens to Lopez. Either way with a healthy Gordon our core is not to far from being complete! The future is bright and exciting!

  6. #31
    The Franchise    Contributor   

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    The biggest question mark to me right now is what you make of Austin Rivers?

    If he is your point guard of the future (Jason Terry, Dallas Role) it changes completely what you look to do in free agency and the draft.

    If he is your future PG in the draft you have to look for a SF or if there is none where the Hornets may pick, I would look for a C or PF and see what we can get for Lopez. A bigman on a good contract for 4 years would be huge for this team, especially with Anderson and Davis taking up big minutes. In free agency a SF is needed and needed big time.

    If Rivers isn't your future and turns out to be a Shannon Brown scorer of the bench at best, we are going to need a point guard and a small forward going forward. Throw money at Brandon Jennings? The hard thing is with capspace is when its gone its gone, so you have to be creative.

    There is a lot of ways the Hornets can go, but I hope over the last 40-50 games we start to see Austin play a lot more PG (even just with the 2nd unit) because it will give us a 'small' indication of what we need to do going forward. We won't be able to find out everything as Austin is a project but it will show where he is now.
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  7. #32
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! luckyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. West View Post
    Well ok. Glad we can agree on that. But I disagree that our role players are fine. Well, they're fine for us, but they wouldn't cut it on a contender. Shooters that can't really shoot or play D isnt a bench, just a group of guys. Memphis, NY, LAC, and Miami all are elite and have very good bench's off the top of my head, and I would argue that even OKC's role players are more useful than ours.

    But I was just mentioning the thing that I thought would be the easiest thing to correct. We need a starting SF and lots of time to learn and jell to contend.
    Jason Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Roger Mason Jr. would all get regular minutes off the bench on any contender. Roger Mason already did with San Antonio. None of them are just a group pf guys. Thats a solid core to build off for a bench. Add the possibilty of bringing in another PG while being able to keep Vasques and it becomes at least top 15 and contender worthy imo. Jason Smith is still trying to work himself back in but he's proven his worth already.

    The bench is not as big a concern as you make it out to be. The hole at SF is the main issue right now.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    Jason Smith, Ryan Anderson, and Roger Mason Jr. would all get regular minutes off the bench on any contender. Roger Mason already did with San Antonio. None of them are just a group pf guys. Thats a solid core to build off for a bench. Add the possibilty of bringing in another PG while being able to keep Vasques and it becomes at least top 15 and contender worthy imo. Jason Smith is still trying to work himself back in but he's proven his worth already.

    The bench is not as big a concern as you make it out to be. The hole at SF is the main issue right now.
    Disagree abour Mason. I really feel like those SA days are behind him and he is a good locker room guy now only. Jason Smith is very good and I never said he wasn't. Ryan Anderson, I was asuming we were talking about the future when he and Davis are starting, which I assume will happen one day. And then we have to get a PG so Vasquez can come off the bench, but yes I agree he will be good.

    Maybe not as bad as I made it out to be, but Vasquez/Smith arn't an elite bench IMO. But no reason to argue bro, lets just agree to disagree, and call it even.

  9. #34
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    What does it take for us to become a contender

    Mason is still a very good spot up shooter and he showed it last night. He can extend the defense which is a reason he got playing time over Rivers in the 2nd half.

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  10. #35
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. West View Post
    Disagree abour Mason. I really feel like those SA days are behind him and he is a good locker room guy now only. Jason Smith is very good and I never said he wasn't. Ryan Anderson, I was asuming we were talking about the future when he and Davis are starting, which I assume will happen one day. And then we have to get a PG so Vasquez can come off the bench, but yes I agree he will be good.

    Maybe not as bad as I made it out to be, but Vasquez/Smith arn't an elite bench IMO. But no reason to argue bro, lets just agree to disagree, and call it even.
    I don't think Anderson was brought in to start. I think he was brought in to help finish.

  11. #36
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Mason is shooting 38% from three in spot up situations this season. That's a solid number. It's when he has to move a little when he has trouble. Though he's 9-15 in transition this season, which is 60% I believe?

    Ryan Anderson is 39% spotting up and 40% in transition.
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  12. #37
    Not 100% sure EG, AD and Ryno would make a serious playoff team "Big three." Davis may become a beast in a few years. EG is prolly good enough to be second best player / closer. But Ryno doesn't strike me as third best player on top team type. I'd be happy with him as our 4th best guy though. So for that reason I picked half-way-there, though patience will be needed too waiting for AD to become a true center.

  13. #38
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! luckyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impose View Post
    Not 100% sure EG, AD and Ryno would make a serious playoff team "Big three." Davis may become a beast in a few years. EG is prolly good enough to be second best player / closer. But Ryno doesn't strike me as third best player on top team type. I'd be happy with him as our 4th best guy though. So for that reason I picked half-way-there, though patience will be needed too waiting for AD to become a true center.
    If EG is 2nd best then who is best? Even if Davis becomes what we think he can, EG will still be the main man teams will scout foremost (provided his knee hasnt fallen off from soreness by then) .

  14. #39
    BUZZ OFF, CHARLOTTE Teal Lantern's Avatar
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    I'm torn between halfway and a long way off. We certainly need a better bench, but the big questions are EG's long-term health and Rivers's ceiling. It's hard to call the Hornets future with those variables.
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  15. #40
    I don't think Davis is a starting C. He's our Starting PF and plays the C role intermittently at the end of the games when the best players need to be there. I actually think he LIKES it this way.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    I don't think Anderson was brought in to start. I think he was brought in to help finish.
    I like that. And I don't think he minds that role one bit.
    Wherehappens.

  17. #42
    Hall of Famer takezor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. West View Post
    Well ok. Glad we can agree on that. But I disagree that our role players are fine. Well, they're fine for us, but they wouldn't cut it on a contender. Shooters that can't really shoot or play D isnt a bench, just a group of guys. Memphis, NY, LAC, and Miami all are elite and have very good bench's off the top of my head, and I would argue that even OKC's role players are more useful than ours.

    But I was just mentioning the thing that I thought would be the easiest thing to correct. We need a starting SF and lots of time to learn and jell to contend.
    mem: bayless, ellington, pondexter, arthur, speights
    heat: cole, lewis, jones, miller, haslem, joel anthony

    Those benches are not elite, not even very good as you re pretending us to believe.

    ny and lac I agree with you, they are pretty good and deep.

    And related to the Hornets, Mason is a good backup, that guy can knock down 3's and Smith is also decent. But overall, the bench is bad and definitely not enough of course.
    Last edited by takezor; 12-31-2012 at 08:55 AM.

  18. #43
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by takezor View Post
    mem: bayless, ellington, pondexter, arthur, speights
    heat: cole, lewis, jones, miller, haslem, joel anthony

    Those benches are not elite, not even very good as you re pretending us to believe.

    ny and lac I agree with you, they are pretty good and deep.

    And related to the Hornets, Mason is a good backup, that guy can knock down 3's and Smith is also decent. But overall, the bench is bad and definitely not enough of course.
    You forgot Ray Allen on the Heat.

  19. #44
    Hall of Famer takezor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    You forgot Ray Allen on the Heat.
    i really didn't forget about him. I put him on the starting five even when he comes off the bench, just like Ryan Anderson. And even if we count them as backups u cant tell these teams have elite benches just for 1 player.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Roles that I think current players could be on a title team if they hit their peaks, stay healthy:

    Davis- Best player
    Gordon- 2nd best player
    Anderson- 3rd or 4th best overall player; 2nd leading scorer
    Vasquez- 15-20 minutes 7th man
    Lopez- 12-16 minute big
    Smith- 12-16 minute big
    Rivers- Jason Terry in Dallas type starter/bench player

    I dont think anybody else on this roster would get a minute for a playoff caliber team. There is a small chance that Darius Miller or Lance Thomas could be solid 10th men on a good team.

    That leaves us needing:

    - One solid low post scorer
    - Another above average rebounder on the front line
    - One more great three-point shooter or two solid one's
    - One more guy who can create for others
    - One more guy who can lockdown on the perimeter so all that isn't put on Gordon
    Eric Gordon will be the BEST player on this team ! AD will be the co-star & a great one at that ! BUT EGO is gonna conduct this orchestra !! FOR NOW !

  21. #46
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by takezor View Post
    i really didn't forget about him. I put him on the starting five even when he comes off the bench, just like Ryan Anderson. And even if we count them as backups u cant tell these teams have elite benches just for 1 player.
    I'd say Miami's is pretty good.
    Cole- Meh can bring the ball up the court and hit the 3.
    Allen- Best 3 point specialist of all time. starter for most teams
    Miller- 3 point specialist. Streaky but can kill you, ask the Thunder
    Haslem- Rebounding and midrange specialist. Very solid backup, Good defender good mid range shot.
    Anthony-Shot Blocker

    I guess the point is they're all specialist to some degree. We're not talking about platoon swaps where they're playing that whole lineup any of the time. Any of those guys with Wade James or Bosh becomes that much better because of their ability to really attack the lane. Miami is a well built team. I figure Wade or James is in the game something like 80% of the game. With these guys spacing the floor it's impossible to crash the whole D on them. Induvidually, they may not seem like much, but in this group they're pretty well fit. PS I hate Miami.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by nolagoblue View Post
    The last thing we need is another PF. Jennings, maybe but I'd rather Iggy
    Who are our power forwards right now ? Three twigs> Anderson (who can play a three), J. Smith (who we use as a Center) & AD, who according to consensus will be bumped to a #5 ! Milsap is 6'9" 265 with a very good mid range jumper & a great rebounder ! I would package Lopez in a deal somewhere, bump AD to a #5. (if he gains the lbs).
    Jennings, Gordon, Milsaps, AD & DEAL for a three w/ Vasquez, Lopez, top 10 pick & money (any of those combos will get you the #3 that you so highly covet !) Other than Ryno, AD & EGO,> everyone is fair game ! We DONT have a POWER #4 !
    You assume that Milsap will be chosen & the rest of our bigs stay the same ! Aint happenin ! If Lopez stays & AD stays a #4, then perhaps Milsaps doesnt fit, but I dont see this entire top9 staying put ! They have to restructure !

  23. #48
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
    Who are our power forwards right now ? Three twigs> Anderson (who can play a three), J. Smith (who we use as a Center) & AD, who according to consensus will be bumped to a #5 ! Milsap is 6'9" 265 with a very good mid range jumper & a great rebounder ! I would package Lopez in a deal somewhere, bump AD to a #5. (if he gains the lbs).
    Jennings, Gordon, Milsaps, AD & DEAL for a three w/ Vasquez, Lopez, top 10 pick & money (any of those combos will get you the #3 that you so highly covet !) Other than Ryno, AD & EGO,> everyone is fair game ! We DONT have a POWER #4 !
    You assume that Milsap will be chosen & the rest of our bigs stay the same ! Aint happenin ! If Lopez stays & AD stays a #4, then perhaps Milsaps doesnt fit, but I dont see this entire top9 staying put ! They have to restructure !
    I don't think Ad will play the 5 ever except situationally. Not that he can't, I just dont see why he would.

  24. #49
    If your looking for a #3 that will be CHEAPER than IGGY & actually a legit #3, not a swing > AND averages more everything per minutes played than iggy>> Dorell Wright is the only #3 on the OPEN market next year worth looking at ! Iggy 6'6" 207 13ppg---34 mpg $14,000,000....... Dorell Wright 6'9" 206 11ppg---22.3 mpg $4,100,000 ! Very long and athletic !

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    I don't think Ad will play the 5 ever except situationally. Not that he can't, I just dont see why he would.
    Yeah, I agree w/ you , but consensus on this board seems to be that (somewhere, somebody heard Monty say that AD was gonna be his #5)
    I have never seen him as a #5, but I have been told by the GURUS on this board that he will be ! So, I guess I am wrong !

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