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Thread: Gordon's first contact practice went well

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    So based upon this logic there's no point in discussing things that already happened if they aren't old enough to be concluded.

    There's nothing wrong with discussing situations as they progress. Also even if this contract does work that doesn't change my initial opinion and logic behind my stance.
    No point in jumping to conclusions on things that aren't old enough to be concluded. There's a difference.

    "I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."

  2. #102
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Gordon's first contact practice went well

    Gordon can't play 99% of games the next 2 season, win MVP next year and throne will still not be satisfied. It's no use in wasting the time.
    My Anthony Davis website: http://thebrow.uphero.com/

  3. #103
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    It'd be a good start. But he's gotta cure world hunger and perfect a non-polluting fuel source then.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    The point is either Gordon was a max player at the time or he wasn't. If Dell thought he was he should have given him that deal the minute he was able. Likewise if he didn't think Gordon was a max player he should have traded him the minute he realized EJ wouldn't sign for what he thought was appropiate amount, the minute he was able to make a trade. Trying to let the market decide whether or not EJ was a max player was a awful move IMO. Especially with so many players being over-paid in free agency. This in a year where the hold on other teams caps space had been reduced making it easier to offer a contract.

    With the creation of max deals it made GM's job easy when it comes to signing a player they think is a max player. Every superstar on a max contract is a steal for every franchise.

    I don't get the "No one ,but God could have predicted this" line. That's why there's a pharse called "Injury prone". When we we're having indepth decision about re-signing Gordon it was my strongest point. This guy stays injuried.

    Wade had proven much more than Gordon had at that point in both players careers. Not sure if or how you can dispute that. That alone made the reward much greater for the Heat.
    The Hornets couldn't predict the Suns would be slimeballs and offer him a max. They believed Gordon is worth a max if they had to pay it, but were still hoping for a better deal. You act like he can just trade him right away and your not realizing the Suns ruined that chance. If this was 2k then sure everything you are saying is possible. Your basing this off of what Presti did with Harden who was probably the most moveable player in the NBA. Dell had absolutely no choice. We did offer Gordon a contract if you don't remember. He had the option to sign it or play another year and leave us with nothing. He chose the better thing for himself and signed the Suns offer knowing the Hornets would match. Dell did exactly what he should have and offered him what he felt was right. Gordon did exactly what he should have and forced the Hornets to match. You sit here and act like we had so many options to just dump Gordon to another team. We just traded our franchise player away for Gordon so we were tied to him a lot more then other teams. Dell had no choice except maybe your little made up 2k trades that happen instantly when you press ok. Please tell me what he should have done except saying he did a horrible job or this or that. I want to know what the better solution was. We would have gotten him for exactly what Dell offered if it wasn't for the Suns stepping in. Then we could have traded him to the Suns or whoever else wanted him. Do you ever think that maybe they actually wanted Gordon? Maybe they actually believe he is the player to get them to the next level with the right pieces around him? He had a nagging injury that i'm sure the Hornets know a little more about then you. When Gordon takes us to the playoffs next year and turns us into a different team when he comes back is Dell still the idiot? By the way let me know your better solution!? I say trade Gordon before the draft for the 2nd pick and take Drummond!

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    You keep saying these GM's have no choice. Then what are they being paid for. Presti had a choice and a much bigger window for Harden, but he understood the longer things play out usually the more leverage for the trading team reduces.

    As far as predicting that a player labeled as injury prone would either get injured or stay injured doesn't really take much foresight IMO.

    Personally I didn't have EJ as a top 5 SG mostly because of his injury problems.

    Demps put himself in a position to act from weakness. Having to match a contract for a guy you consider a franchise player is an awful decision. The league has max contracts in place so the only way you can blow signing a franchise player is if he gets injured. Gordon is mentally weak which is ok, but as a GM if you are going to pay a player of that mindset you must cater to that player. These are all decisions Demps is paid millions to make.
    How do you figure? Do you realize that Demps is the one who wouldn't let him play until he was 100%? It's not like Gordon sat down and refused to get on the court. It isn't smart at all to play with a weak quad. That can lead to major structural damage.

    I know a lot of people are mad at Gordon for being injured, but that doesn't make him "mentally weak." That doesn't even make any sense. If anything, Gordon is a mentally strong player who exudes confidence, swagger, and the willingness to take (and make) shots at the end of the the game.

    Gordon and Demps did the smart thing which was to rehab correctly until he is healthy enough to play. It's that simple. They did the right thing, so get over it.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Gordon can't play 99% of games the next 2 season, win MVP next year and throne will still not be satisfied. It's no use in wasting the time.
    Do you know me?

    Making these silly comments adds nothing to the discussion. I've been more flexible about my position then most people commenting here. It's the closed minded people who speak ill of me like they are so open.

  7. #107
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Do you know me?

    Making these silly comments adds nothing to the discussion. I've been more flexible about my position then most people commenting here. It's the closed minded people who speak ill of me like they are so open.
    People speak "ill" of you because its just ridiculous now and because YOU are the one that is so closed-minded.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by NOH2313 View Post
    No point in jumping to conclusions on things that aren't old enough to be concluded. There's a difference.
    I understand what your saying. However discussing the topic as it unfolds and/or forming an opinion about that topic isn't jumping to conclusions IMO. It's forming an opinion off of the facts and details provided to you. Two completely separate things.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by nolaslim213 View Post
    How do you figure? Do you realize that Demps is the one who wouldn't let him play until he was 100%? It's not like Gordon sat down and refused to get on the court. It isn't smart at all to play with a weak quad. That can lead to major structural damage.

    I know a lot of people are mad at Gordon for being injured, but that doesn't make him "mentally weak." That doesn't even make any sense. If anything, Gordon is a mentally strong player who exudes confidence, swagger, and the willingness to take (and make) shots at the end of the the game.

    Gordon and Demps did the smart thing which was to rehab correctly until he is healthy enough to play. It's that simple. They did the right thing, so get over it.
    It's been reported that Gordon was offended by not being offered a max deal by us. Which I believe lead to all those comments about not wanting to be in NOLA or his heart being in Phoenix. It was also reported that Gordon took offense to Griffin popularity and role when he was with the Clippers. This and some of the interviews and things he's released through the media makes me feel Gordon is mentally weak. That's not even getting into the injury situation.

  10. #110
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    The Hornets couldn't predict the Suns would be slimeballs and offer him a max. They believed Gordon is worth a max if they had to pay it, but were still hoping for a better deal. You act like he can just trade him right away and your not realizing the Suns ruined that chance. If this was 2k then sure everything you are saying is possible. Your basing this off of what Presti did with Harden who was probably the most moveable player in the NBA. Dell had absolutely no choice. We did offer Gordon a contract if you don't remember. He had the option to sign it or play another year and leave us with nothing. He chose the better thing for himself and signed the Suns offer knowing the Hornets would match. Dell did exactly what he should have and offered him what he felt was right. Gordon did exactly what he should have and forced the Hornets to match. You sit here and act like we had so many options to just dump Gordon to another team. We just traded our franchise player away for Gordon so we were tied to him a lot more then other teams. Dell had no choice except maybe your little made up 2k trades that happen instantly when you press ok. Please tell me what he should have done except saying he did a horrible job or this or that. I want to know what the better solution was. We would have gotten him for exactly what Dell offered if it wasn't for the Suns stepping in. Then we could have traded him to the Suns or whoever else wanted him. Do you ever think that maybe they actually wanted Gordon? Maybe they actually believe he is the player to get them to the next level with the right pieces around him? He had a nagging injury that i'm sure the Hornets know a little more about then you. When Gordon takes us to the playoffs next year and turns us into a different team when he comes back is Dell still the idiot? By the way let me know your better solution!? I say trade Gordon before the draft for the 2nd pick and take Drummond!
    How are they slimeballs for offering the max?

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    It's been reported that Gordon was offended by not being offered a max deal by us. Which I believe lead to all those comments about not wanting to be in NOLA or his heart being in Phoenix. It was also reported that Gordon took offense to Griffin popularity and role when he was with the Clippers. This and some of the interviews and things he's released through the media makes me feel Gordon is mentally weak. That's not even getting into the injury situation.
    It's been reported that he did this and that? So now he's mentally weak because if some things that most likely aren't even true. Just like all of the **** you say isn't true. Your argument is all based off of things you assume Gordon Dell and Monty think and do. Nothing you say is actual facts just what you think went and is going down behind the scenes.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    The Hornets couldn't predict the Suns would be slimeballs and offer him a max. They believed Gordon is worth a max if they had to pay it, but were still hoping for a better deal. You act like he can just trade him right away and your not realizing the Suns ruined that chance. If this was 2k then sure everything you are saying is possible. Your basing this off of what Presti did with Harden who was probably the most moveable player in the NBA. Dell had absolutely no choice. We did offer Gordon a contract if you don't remember. He had the option to sign it or play another year and leave us with nothing. He chose the better thing for himself and signed the Suns offer knowing the Hornets would match. Dell did exactly what he should have and offered him what he felt was right. Gordon did exactly what he should have and forced the Hornets to match. You sit here and act like we had so many options to just dump Gordon to another team. We just traded our franchise player away for Gordon so we were tied to him a lot more then other teams. Dell had no choice except maybe your little made up 2k trades that happen instantly when you press ok. Please tell me what he should have done except saying he did a horrible job or this or that. I want to know what the better solution was. We would have gotten him for exactly what Dell offered if it wasn't for the Suns stepping in. Then we could have traded him to the Suns or whoever else wanted him. Do you ever think that maybe they actually wanted Gordon? Maybe they actually believe he is the player to get them to the next level with the right pieces around him? He had a nagging injury that i'm sure the Hornets know a little more about then you. When Gordon takes us to the playoffs next year and turns us into a different team when he comes back is Dell still the idiot? By the way let me know your better solution!? I say trade Gordon before the draft for the 2nd pick and take Drummond!
    I suggest you break your thoughts into separate paragraphs. Trying to read your posts are difficult all jumbled together. Not trying to be funny either.

    1st I had that opinion well before Harden was dealt so making that connect couldn't be anymore false. The point is why would a GM play hardball with his franchise player? People are bringing up Wade. Even with his injury history anybody think Riley would let Wade hit the open market just to save what was what about a million and a half per season?

    I won't sit here and pretend that I know what offers where on the table for Gordon. However there were teams interested. However I predicted that at last one team would offer Gordon a max deal. It was a weak FA class and players that were in Gordons' talent range had been given max deals in recent years.

    Hopefully Gordon can remain healthy and lead this team to respectability. We are most likely stuck with him for better or worse. However I don't ever recall saying Demps was an idiot. He's made a ton of quality deals as our GM. However that doesn't mean I should think every transaction is a good one.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 12-28-2012 at 09:58 AM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    It's been reported that he did this and that? So now he's mentally weak because if some things that most likely aren't even true. Just like all of the **** you say isn't true. Your argument is all based off of things you assume Gordon Dell and Monty think and do. Nothing you say is actual facts just what you think went and is going down behind the scenes.
    So I made up the comments about his heart being in Phoenix and him hoping Demps doesn't match the offer?

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    How are they slimeballs for offering the max?
    If they really wanted him they could have done a sign and trade. They knew we were willing to match anything to so instead of working a deal they just force us to match max and start crap in the media on purpose to force his way out. That's not slime balls? Those were nice words.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    So I made up the comments about his heart being in Phoenix and him hoping Demps doesn't match the offer?
    Because he said one stupid comment as a young kid? He had to say something to get $58 mil. Where would your heart be if one team offers you 52 then one offers you 58? He's a good business man just bad speaker.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    If they really wanted him they could have done a sign and trade. They knew we were willing to match anything to so instead of working a deal they just force us to match max and start crap in the media on purpose to force his way out. That's not slime balls? Those were nice words.
    This post contradicts itself. You're saying they never really wanted EJ, yet they started crap in the media to help him force his way out. So which is it?

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Because he said one stupid comment as a young kid? He had to say something to get $58 mil. Where would your heart be if one team offers you 52 then one offers you 58? He's a good business man just bad speaker.
    This makes my point though.

    Why not just offer the 58 and avoid all the drama altogether? That 6 million isn't worth the negative attention this whole situation has received and he still got the money.

  18. #118
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    If it were your 6 million you would sing a different tune. Shrewd businessmen do not pay 6 million more simply to avoid drama. That is the line of thinking that will have your cap situation f'd up in a hurry

  19. #119
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    If they really wanted him they could have done a sign and trade. They knew we were willing to match anything to so instead of working a deal they just force us to match max and start crap in the media on purpose to force his way out. That's not slime balls? Those were nice words.
    They were'mnt willing to give up talent for him. How do you know a team's not bluffing when they say that? They're in a no lose situation. They followed the rules. They didn't find some loophole. They offered him what they could offer him. I hold no angst against Phx in this.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    This post contradicts itself. You're saying they never really wanted EJ, yet they started crap in the media to help him force his way out. So which is it?
    No it doesn't contradict anything. Since when is $52 Million not wanting somebody. If the $6 mil isn't a big deal which it is then why did Presti offer Harden below the max? Dell did exactly what he should and that was offer him $52. He valued him as a max player if need be but if you can get him on the cheaper side you do it thats what a good GM does. Gordon didn't have to sign the deal and could wait a year to be a unrestricted free agent and I promise you he would take the $52. The Suns came in and offered Max so Dell did exactly what he should do and planned if need be which was offer the max. Where did I or they say we didn't want him? Suns started the media crap to try and get Gordon to force his way out. He said something dumb which I don't blame him because he had to play the game to get the Hornets to match. Everything I have seen or heard from him since seems like he's perfectly fine with being here and wants to. Dell never could have predicted the Suns offering or the knee injury which just happens and is nobodies fault its called human. We could not trade with the Suns because they offered and showed No previous interest as we know. What other situation should have happened? Please enlighten!
    Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 12-28-2012 at 10:53 AM.

  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    They were'mnt willing to give up talent for him. How do you know a team's not bluffing when they say that? They're in a no lose situation. They followed the rules. They didn't find some loophole. They offered him what they could offer him. I hold no angst against Phx in this.
    I hold nothing against them either but they knew we were willing to offer the max we just traded our star for him. If Dell bluffed and didn't match honestly me and i'm sure most of Hornets nation would have been furious! They brainwashed him with all this stuff and basically told him what to say and try to get his way out of Nola. Gordon said some things that made a lot of people mad. I hold no ill will towards either party but they were slime balls for doing that.

  22. #122
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    This makes my point though.

    Why not just offer the 58 and avoid all the drama altogether? That 6 million isn't worth the negative attention this whole situation has received and he still got the money.
    Why didn't the saints just offer brees 200 million dollars and avoid the hold out and all the negative attention it brought? Because you don't give money away. We were willing to give him the max but didn't believe anyone else would offer him that, after-all only 1 other team did, so why waste money? No one could have predicted the way it would have played out, it could have ended up being perfectly fine. Your entire argument for months and months is based off of hindsight.

  23. #123
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    I hold nothing against them either but they knew we were willing to offer the max we just traded our star for him. If Dell bluffed and didn't match honestly me and i'm sure most of Hornets nation would have been furious! They brainwashed him with all this stuff and basically told him what to say and try to get his way out of Nola. Gordon said some things that made a lot of people mad. I hold no ill will towards either party but they were slime balls for doing that.
    I don't think they brainwashed him. I think the legitimately wanted Gordon without giving up assets and knew they didn't have huge odds to get him. So, in order to even offer the sheet to Gordon they said, you need to go out and make this statement. Phx didn't want to waste their time if the had No shot to get him. Gordon was being a good businessman, as you stated earlier and earned himself 6 more million dollars. everyone took risks here:

    1. Hornets took risk to let him see what he could get on the outside market and had to pay more. They also risked making gordon feeling underappreciated, warnted or not.
    2. Phx took a risk when they signed him because they knew the Hornets could match, so in order to create larger odds for them to receive Gordon, they had him make the statement and probably overpaid by a bit.
    3. Gordon took risk to alienate Hornets fans if they matched by making the statement , but ended up with 6 million dollars more.

    I'm not mad at anyone for this, but DeThone's point is if Dell would have just offered him 500k more per year, which is pretty insignificant in concerns to this deal the hornets could have avoided 3 risk: Overpaying by more than 500k, making Gordon feel somewhate underappreciated and Gordon losing the fans. This is where he has a point. I think DaThone has some more radical views that i don't agree with, but this one he absolutely has a point and is right on this issue. Was all of this melodrama worth 500k a year? Worse yet is it cost them more than the initial 500k. Part of a discussion is being able to be shown facts and understand if you're right or wrong, and if either party is unwilling to budge from your initial assessment, then the discussion is worthless.

  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    I don't think they brainwashed him. I think the legitimately wanted Gordon without giving up assets and knew they didn't have huge odds to get him. So, in order to even offer the sheet to Gordon they said, you need to go out and make this statement. Phx didn't want to waste their time if the had No shot to get him. Gordon was being a good businessman, as you stated earlier and earned himself 6 more million dollars. everyone took risks here:

    1. Hornets took risk to let him see what he could get on the outside market and had to pay more. They also risked making gordon feeling underappreciated, warnted or not.
    2. Phx took a risk when they signed him because they knew the Hornets could match, so in order to create larger odds for them to receive Gordon, they had him make the statement and probably overpaid by a bit.
    3. Gordon took risk to alienate Hornets fans if they matched by making the statement , but ended up with 6 million dollars more.

    I'm not mad at anyone for this, but DeThone's point is if Dell would have just offered him 500k more per year, which is pretty insignificant in concerns to this deal the hornets could have avoided 3 risk: Overpaying by more than 500k, making Gordon feel somewhate underappreciated and Gordon losing the fans. This is where he has a point. I think DaThone has some more radical views that i don't agree with, but this one he absolutely has a point and is right on this issue. Was all of this melodrama worth 500k a year? Worse yet is it cost them more than the initial 500k. Part of a discussion is being able to be shown facts and understand if you're right or wrong, and if either party is unwilling to budge from your initial assessment, then the discussion is worthless.
    No it was closer to $2 million a year then 500k.. A 4 year $52 or $58 thats a big difference. His point is all basing off of what he thinks went on or what the Hornets could have maybe done. How Dell is an idiot when he did exactly what he should have done and I thought he handled it very well. He offered him a good deal for us and him. He still had the option to not sign it and wait until next year but the Suns came out of nowhere so we matched. What about his argument is right? Like I said why didn't the Thunder offer Harden the max if its so meaningless? We are going to need every bit of $ we can have for the future signings. Why doesn't every player just get the max to avoid anything because its just a few more million per year? Thats what the Spurs do right? What about the Thunder and the "great" Presti?

  25. #125

    Gordon's first contact practice went well

    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    So, in order to even offer the sheet to Gordon they said, you need to go out and make this statement. .
    I agree with everything you said but this. As I recall it was somewhat off the cuff when he made that statement. It was like an Internet blogger r something who recorded his statement. It wasn't like an official press conference or anything. It wasn't a prepared statement and I'm sure he immediately regretted his word choice. Even if it was preplanned I doubt anyone outside of his camp told him to say what he said.

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