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Thread: Gordon's first contact practice went well

  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    He had a choice and he made the worst one IMO. Not only did he bet the bank on an oftenly injuried player he managed to do so while creating bad blood with said player.

    I don't know how we judge which GM's would have re-signed Gordon from those who wouldn't. We see what Sam Presti does when he can't sign his players to the contracts and/or time frames he thinks is acceptable. We could have traded Gordon last year or even gave him the max deal, but instead we choose to play hard ball. Now both side are coming away looking bad. To top things off the one team that we know for sure would have given Gordon the contract he has is no longer a potential trade partner. Now if he really just doesn't want to be here or health continues to be a problem this kills us cap wise. Who's going to want to come here if 20% of the cap is going to a guy who always out of the line up?
    By the same token, we had the same choice with Chandler a few years back and blew it. The Heat could have thrown in the towel on Wade after the injury-riddled start to his career (he had seasons of 61, 75, 75, 51 and 50 games). The sword cuts both ways, and people would be burying Demps the same way Bower got buried for letting Chandler go.

    Not saying you have no point here; I get the feeling the Hornets probably ruffled his feathers in the way they handled him ... and purely speculating, I bet it had to do with exactly how "injured" he was last year, and the ensuing failure to max him out after whatever they agreed mutually to do that season.

    But I disagree with the notion that you always err on the cautious side. Gordon is the type of player you take the risk on, a legitimate go-to player and upper tier talent. If it doesn't work out (and early returns aren't promising), then so be it; but you'll have a hard time luring a player of that caliber regardless - just ask Dallas these days.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    You are gonna base Sam Presti off of one deal he did? He basically had no choice but to trade him and he got great return. It's not Dells fault the Suns were not able to trade they offered and ruined it. Dell did exactly what any GM would do match a contract for a top 5 SG. No one could predict this would happen and you can't blame either party for the knee. Dell did what was best for the Hornets and that was keep Gordon for the future whether that's a trade or a part of this team. Nobody looks stupid at all except for maybe Gordon because the things he said. He did what was best for him at the time and I forgive him. He is now a Horney and we need to let time play this situation out before we call anybody stupid.
    You keep saying these GM's have no choice. Then what are they being paid for. Presti had a choice and a much bigger window for Harden, but he understood the longer things play out usually the more leverage for the trading team reduces.

    As far as predicting that a player labeled as injury prone would either get injured or stay injured doesn't really take much foresight IMO.

    Personally I didn't have EJ as a top 5 SG mostly because of his injury problems.

    Demps put himself in a position to act from weakness. Having to match a contract for a guy you consider a franchise player is an awful decision. The league has max contracts in place so the only way you can blow signing a franchise player is if he gets injured. Gordon is mentally weak which is ok, but as a GM if you are going to pay a player of that mindset you must cater to that player. These are all decisions Demps is paid millions to make.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 12-27-2012 at 07:52 PM.

  3. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterMash View Post
    By the same token, we had the same choice with Chandler a few years back and blew it. The Heat could have thrown in the towel on Wade after the injury-riddled start to his career (he had seasons of 61, 75, 75, 51 and 50 games). The sword cuts both ways, and people would be burying Demps the same way Bower got buried for letting Chandler go.

    Not saying you have no point here; I get the feeling the Hornets probably ruffled his feathers in the way they handled him ... and purely speculating, I bet it had to do with exactly how "injured" he was last year, and the ensuing failure to max him out after whatever they agreed mutually to do that season.

    But I disagree with the notion that you always err on the cautious side. Gordon is the type of player you take the risk on, a legitimate go-to player and upper tier talent. If it doesn't work out (and early returns aren't promising), then so be it; but you'll have a hard time luring a player of that caliber regardless - just ask Dallas these days.
    This isn't about erring on the side of caution it's about risk vs reward.

    I did the math and Gordon had missed more games than Wade in the same time. Even if it was identical Wade proved he could have a championship impact on a team. Gordon has proved he can even have a playoff impact on a team.

    Chandler wasn't injury prone (at least not to the degree of Gordon) and he wanted to be here and we didn't have to offer him a max deal.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    You keep saying these GM's have no choice. Then what are they being paid for. Presti had a choice and a much bigger window for Harden, but he understood the longer things play out usually the more leverage for the trading team reduces.

    As far as predicting a player labeled as injury prone would either get injured or stay injured don't really think that takes much foresight.
    ?
    Personally I didn't have EJ as a top 5 SG mostly because of his injury problems.

    Demps put himself in a position to act from weakness. Having to match a contract for a guy you consider a franchise player is an awful decision. The league has max contracts in place so the only way you can blow signing a franchise player is if he gets injured. Gordon is mentally weak which is ok, but as a GM if you are going to pay a player of that mindset you must cater to that player. These are all decisions Demps is paid millions to make.
    You just made my point Preti had a much bigger window. Preti actually had time and a whole season to figure out what to do. Hornets had a couple of days to match. He's Dell did what any GM of a small market team would do. We just traded our start for this kid we have no choice but the match Phoenix. Please tell me what you would have done? Let Gordon walk for nothing? Trade him to who? Matching a contract is an afoul decision? How? Gordon got hurt this happens no one except god could predict this. What about Wade the Heat should have let his injury prone ** go right? No sticking with him and now has 2 rings on his second max. Would that surprise anyone that you don't have Gordom or didn't in your top 5? I seriously doubt it. Talking about awful decision you are the only person who believes taking Drummond over Davis is the right move. Would Dell be a horrible GM for that? No of course not to you but he is for resigning Gordon, seriously!?

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    This isn't about erring on the side of caution it's about risk vs reward.

    I did the math and Gordon had missed more games than Wade in the same time. Even if it was identical Wade proved he could have a championship impact on a team. Gordon has proved he can even have a playoff impact on a team.

    Chandler wasn't injury prone (at least not to the degree of Gordon) and he wanted to be here and we didn't have to offer him a max deal.
    Wade proved he was championship material with Shaq and LeBron. Did you ever watch the Heat when DWade was on a team without other stars how bad they were? Obviously not. DWade was always hurt with nagging injuries and is still. I guess he an injury prone guard not worth anything. Don't even say championships because that is because of a good team and other great players also. When he was alone they were last team in the East playoffs if they were lucky and would get blown out. Have you let Gordon get a chance to prove anything? I don't know how you think Dell looks like an idiot. You have not even let the situation play out to see if Gordon is championship material like your Wade or Drummond.

  6. #81
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    You are gonna base Sam Presti off of one deal he did? He basically had no choice but to trade him and he got great return. It's not Dells fault the Suns were not able to trade they offered and ruined it. Dell did exactly what any GM would do match a contract for a top 5 SG. No one could predict this would happen and you can't blame either party for the knee. Dell did what was best for the Hornets and that was keep Gordon for the future whether that's a trade or a part of this team. Nobody looks stupid at all except for maybe Gordon because the things he said. He did what was best for him at the time and I forgive him. He is now a Horney and we need to let time play this situation out before we call anybody stupid.
    Presti also unloaded Jeff Green. I think they overpaid for Perkins a bit (in regards to his contract), but ever since getting him, they've grown up a lot faster.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    Wade proved he was championship material with Shaq and LeBron. Did you ever watch the Heat when DWade was on a team without other stars how bad they were? Obviously not. DWade was always hurt with nagging injuries and is still. I guess he an injury prone guard not worth anything. Don't even say championships because that is because of a good team and other great players also. When he was alone they were last team in the East playoffs if they were lucky and would get blown out. Have you let Gordon get a chance to prove anything? I don't know how you think Dell looks like an idiot. You have not even let the situation play out to see if Gordon is championship material like your Wade or Drummond.
    You mean Wade's rookie year? He was pretty damn good then too. Gordon's had a few years to lead the clips to the playoffs (Which CP3 did with not much more help). Let's not really compare the two. Wade in his prime was a MVP candidate, Gordon hasn't proved that yet.

  8. #83


  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3nDX30 View Post


  10. #85
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3nDX30 View Post

    I love the optimism, but how can he know that?

  11. #86
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3nDX30 View Post


  12. #87
    All World Contributor FlyGirl's Avatar
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    Doug Mouton ‏@DMoutonWWL
    Eric Gordon on his knee injury: I doubt there will be any setbacks from now on, unless I really bang it. We figured out the problem.. (more)
    Doug Mouton ‏@DMoutonWWL
    (more) Gordon on knee: ..and we've been working on it. Things are good. It's all about the conditioning at this point.
    I guess all we can do is sit and watch and........................................ hope for the best?


  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    You just made my point Preti had a much bigger window. Preti actually had time and a whole season to figure out what to do. Hornets had a couple of days to match. He's Dell did what any GM of a small market team would do. We just traded our start for this kid we have no choice but the match Phoenix. Please tell me what you would have done? Let Gordon walk for nothing? Trade him to who? Matching a contract is an afoul decision? How? Gordon got hurt this happens no one except god could predict this. What about Wade the Heat should have let his injury prone ** go right? No sticking with him and now has 2 rings on his second max. Would that surprise anyone that you don't have Gordom or didn't in your top 5? I seriously doubt it. Talking about awful decision you are the only person who believes taking Drummond over Davis is the right move. Would Dell be a horrible GM for that? No of course not to you but he is for resigning Gordon, seriously!?
    The point is either Gordon was a max player at the time or he wasn't. If Dell thought he was he should have given him that deal the minute he was able. Likewise if he didn't think Gordon was a max player he should have traded him the minute he realized EJ wouldn't sign for what he thought was appropiate amount, the minute he was able to make a trade. Trying to let the market decide whether or not EJ was a max player was a awful move IMO. Especially with so many players being over-paid in free agency. This in a year where the hold on other teams caps space had been reduced making it easier to offer a contract.

    With the creation of max deals it made GM's job easy when it comes to signing a player they think is a max player. Every superstar on a max contract is a steal for every franchise.

    I don't get the "No one ,but God could have predicted this" line. That's why there's a pharse called "Injury prone". When we we're having indepth decision about re-signing Gordon it was my strongest point. This guy stays injuried.

    Wade had proven much more than Gordon had at that point in both players careers. Not sure if or how you can dispute that. That alone made the reward much greater for the Heat.

  14. #89
    Last years record without Gordon: 15-42 (.263)

    Last years record with Gordon: 6-3 (.667)

    This years record so far: 6-22 (.214)

  15. #90
    DaThrone, what is your point that you're trying to get across? What's the message? What's the reason for you to STILL, after months, beating the same thing over and over? What gives?

    I swear, you're just like a woman that catches her man cheating, she'll repeat the same thing over and over for years every day, reminding him of the same event!

  16. #91
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBREED View Post
    DaThrone, what is your point that you're trying to get across? What's the message? What's the reason for you to STILL, after months, beating the same thing over and over? What gives?

    I swear, you're just like a woman that catches her man cheating, she'll repeat the same thing over and over for years every day, reminding him of the same event!
    Wow. Just wow.

  17. #92

    Gordon's first contact practice went well


  18. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBREED View Post
    DaThrone, what is your point that you're trying to get across? What's the message? What's the reason for you to STILL, after months, beating the same thing over and over? What gives?

    I swear, you're just like a woman that catches her man cheating, she'll repeat the same thing over and over for years every day, reminding him of the same event!
    Not sure how your analogy fits this situation, but to answer your question the subject was brought up as to what I expect a GM to do in that situation. I said what I said then and still continue to believe was the best course of action.

  19. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Not sure how your analogy fits this situation, but to answer your question the subject was brought up as to what I expect a GM to do in that situation. I said what I said then and still continue to believe was the best course of action.
    Well it didn't happen, so we should all move on.

    No point in living in the past.

    "I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by NOH2313 View Post
    Well it didn't happen, so we should all move on.

    No point in living in the past.
    If we are evalutaing Demps as a GM(which is how this whole thing got started) discussing what we feel are "the bad" is just as important as pointing out "the good".

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    If we are evalutaing Demps as a GM(which is how this whole thing got started) discussing what we feel are "the bad" is just as important as pointing out "the good".
    And its premature to place Gordon in the "bad" category at the moment. So your point is moot.

  22. #97
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyLanta View Post
    ...

    I did eat at Wendy's yesterday.

  23. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by NOH2313 View Post
    And its premature to place Gordon in the "bad" category at the moment. So your point is moot.
    So based upon this logic there's no point in discussing things that already happened if they aren't old enough to be concluded.

    There's nothing wrong with discussing situations as they progress. Also even if this contract does work that doesn't change my initial opinion and logic behind my stance.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    So based upon this logic there's no point in discussing things that already happened if they aren't old enough to be concluded.

    There's nothing wrong with discussing situations as they progress. Also even if this contract does work that doesn't change my initial opinion and logic behind my stance.

    I completely agree with you on your stance. If you were willing to pay him then why fight over 500k a year and create the potential for anamosity between he and the fans.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGBREED View Post
    DaThrone, what is your point that you're trying to get across? What's the message? What's the reason for you to STILL, after months, beating the same thing over and over? What gives?

    I swear, you're just like a woman that catches her man cheating, she'll repeat the same thing over and over for years every day, reminding him of the same event!
    Wooow sexist and not even relevant. Good job.

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