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Thread: Game Thread: New Orleans Hornets @ Golden State Warriors

  1. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    The only thing im really upset about is no miller time. He must have really been slacking in practice or something. Vazquez didnt play awful tonight but he missed slot of open men tonight. The only way he can keep starting in this league is if he sharpens his descision making up. Its supposed to be his strong suit but hes stumbled alot this season.
    I agree that he misses Davis so many times, but I can't imagine that he is refusing to look at that option off the PnR. Someone needs to tell him to pass davis the ball. It's not like he thinks he knows better than everyone else. It's not something he isn't willing to do lol. I think he just needs to do it and then he'll continue to do it and succeed at it

  2. #377
    On a permanent Holiday! Purple Haze's Avatar
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    Funny how Rivers' epic first step hasn't shown up quite yet in the NBA.
    Wherehappens.

  3. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Please tell me where I said he shouldnt be in the league or hated on him? The PG runs the offense and our offense blows. You are not going to be successful in the NBA running P&R 85% of the time like we do. He isn't on the level of a starting PG and if you can't realize that because you are biased because you like the guy so much then I'm sorry but a sports forum isn't for you.
    lol I'm not calling you out specifically or anything. your post just mentioned the backup pg pov so I thought it would be a good one to quote. I'm talking about all the overreactors when something goes wrong while the ball is/was in vasquez's hands

  4. #379
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
    Funny how Rivers' epic first step hasn't shown up quite yet in the NBA.
    What? He's gotten past people more than a few times on one move. He just hasn't always been able to finish because teams expect him to keep driving. Either he's going to the layup or the floater.

  5. #380
    Well, I think both of you went a little far... GeneralGreivis probably see other posts from someone else.

    For the point guard upgrade option, sure you can upgrade Vasquez to one of those hot point guards out there. I currently see more need to upgrade in other positions though. There are more than just Chris Paul mode of building team, which you have the best point guard that makes everyone else looking better. While there are also like Miami heat mode, Memphis mode. On those teams the foward position, front court are invested more.

    For Hornets, now we invested on Anderson, Davis, and Gordon. We might pick another point guard. But I would think it worth more to pick a better center or small foward.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Please tell me where I said he shouldnt be in the league or hated on him? The PG runs the offense and our offense blows. You are not going to be successful in the NBA running P&R 85% of the time like we do. He isn't on the level of a starting PG and if you can't realize that because you are biased because you like the guy so much then I'm sorry but a sports forum isn't for you.

  6. #381
    On a permanent Holiday! Purple Haze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    What? He's gotten past people more than a few times on one move. He just hasn't always been able to finish because teams expect him to keep driving. Either he's going to the layup or the floater.
    Just messin around.

  7. #382
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    Believe it or not we're actually ranked 17th in offensive efficiency and that's without Davis for half the season and with Austin Rivers shooting 34% in all of November.

    And most NBA basketball is P&R. I'm not sure where you get this notion that it's not. It's not like we have any playmakers on the wing to do something besides pick n roll.
    Yeah efficiency is great and all, but that means nothing when you are the 3rd worst scoring team in the NBA. 92ppg is not going to win very many games in the NBA. Maybe 5 through your first 24

    Vasquez cannot get around his defender without help is the point I was trying to make. When you have a PG that cannot create penetration on his own that seriously limits what you can do offensively. Thankfully Davis is a great P&R player, but for some reason he rarely gets passed the ball in those situations.
    Last edited by RaisingTheBar; 12-19-2012 at 10:05 AM.
    My Anthony Davis website: http://thebrow.uphero.com/

  8. #383
    Vasquez would be best used as SG playing a Manu Ginobli type of roll. He Reminds me of him with a similar skill set but more of Passer/ball handler then scorer. No way am I saying he is that good, but in the right situation could be a very good player. He is a very capable starting PG who is slow footed with a weakness of pick&roll and covering faster guards. I think better suited as a good teams back up SG or PG being a ball handler/playmaker. He has proven he can still get it done with a very young team. Without Gordon we could definitely use a true starting PG who has the foot speed to play our predominately pick&roll offense. With Gordon we should cover that flaws with our PGs and SGs. He is one of the best pick&roll guards in the NBA when healthy.

  9. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Haze View Post
    Just messin around.
    Haha I was about to say, I think his first step has been great! I have seen him many times on his first step get away from the defender! It is just the separation after that he hasn't shown as well. His inability to finish at the rim has hurt him but will only get better. He's so young and has so much strength to gain on his drives. Shows lots of different moves and shots that I like already. Once he puts his whole arsenal together will be a total package player on offense with decent athleticism and size for SG who plays tough D.

  10. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Vasquez cannot get around his defender without help is the point I was trying to make. When you have a PG that cannot create penetration on his own that seriously limits what you can do offensively.

    On the other hand, he can post up to attract the defense. I wish he can develop more post move though. Then he will be the next Andre Miller. His post move still looks rough this moment.

    Like I said before, he is not a convention point guard in NBA.

  11. #386
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacklvyn View Post
    On the other hand, he can post up to attract the defense. I wish he can develop more post move though. Then he will be the next Andre Miller. His post move still looks rough this moment.

    Like I said before, he is not a convention point guard in NBA.
    I agree if he could add that to his game. He tries it a lot but is rarely successful.

    I don't see the problem with being a good backup in the NBA. Fans act like it is degrading to come off the bench. If we have the opportunity to draft or trade for an upgrade at PG, it can seriously help us having GV in the 2nd unit.
    Last edited by RaisingTheBar; 12-19-2012 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #387
    Band of Skulls & Neon Trees ramsters60's Avatar
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    we are reasonably close, but we still have more guys on the court that are more likely to hurt us at crunch time than take us over the top....
    "we might make dollars, but we don't necessarily make sense"

    "always be sincere....whether you mean it or not"

  13. #388
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    I agree if he could add that to his game. He tries it a lot but is rarely successful.
    He is better off shooting his flailing off balance floater that he has made at a very high rate, Although, he has been trying to use the glass a lot more often. I'm not opposed to it since that was his forte in college, but he hasn't gotten that consistently yet. Overall his scoring ability has improved over the last week.

  14. #389

    Game Thread: New Orleans Hornets @ Golden State Warriors

    We like to say that Vasquez is best defending SGs, but Williams doesn't switch Vasquez/ Rivers/Roberts very often on defense. Vasquez almost always guard the opposing PG on defense unless Williams have him off ball playing SG.

    Maybe Williams doesn't value man defense and may be the reason why he doesn't see Vasquez as a liability on defense. The one position that Williams has been critical on has been SF. Maybe he feels that a competent SF on defense is the missing piece to his defensive rotations. Williams is generally fine with his perimeter players getting beat as long as they force the opposing player towards the help defense.

    As for Vasquez on offense, he needs Eric Gordon. Why? Because teams won't bring ball pressure defense against Vasquez if Gordon is on the floor. Gordon will surely make them pay for leaving him. As for his limitations, Gordon would handle the ball late in games and take pressure off of Vasquez from making plays he isn't capable of.

    I think that we already know what we have in Vasquez but there is still a big unknown that involves Gordon. Once Gordon returns and gives us a good sample size on his chemistry with Vasquez, we'll better understand where this team stands on the perimeter.

  15. #390
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Yeah efficiency is great and all, but that means nothing when you are the 3rd worst scoring team in the NBA. 92ppg is not going to win very many games in the NBA. Maybe 5 through your first 24

    Vasquez cannot get around his defender without help is the point I was trying to make. When you have a PG that cannot create penetration on his own that seriously limits what you can do offensively. Thankfully Davis is a great P&R player, but for some reason he rarely gets passed the ball in those situations.
    It's all about pace. Looking at basic PPG numbers does not tell the full story. Houston averages 104 PPG (3rd best in the NBA), shouldn't they be better than 12-12? Well, they're actually 10th in offensive efficiency and score so high because they place at the fastest pace in the NBA. It's the same reason why GS could score so many points and lose so many games. Fast pace =/= good offense. The team is losing because of their defense, not the offense. We are dead last in the NBA on defense and it isn't even that close.

    I didn't even mention Vasquez in the original post but I agree, he has his flaws. Most of them are on the defensive side of the ball though. He'd look better with a better team for sure. I mean he's playing with Austin Rivers (who will eventually be good but right now he's been pretty bad) and someone new every night at SF. There's not a whole lot of help. He's not a starter but I think he's doing an admirable job given the circumstances. Also I expect him and Davis to form some better chemistry as time goes on. Vasquez will learn Davis' tendencies and will be able to get him the ball more often. They've only played about 10 games together. Give them time.

  16. #391
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralGreivis View Post
    He is better off shooting his flailing off balance floater that he has made at a very high rate, Although, he has been trying to use the glass a lot more often. I'm not opposed to it since that was his forte in college, but he hasn't gotten that consistently yet. Overall his scoring ability has improved over the last week.
    Not this week this year. You can tell he worked on his 3pt in the offseason. And that is what I love about him. If he has a problem that can be fixed he will work hard to get it corrected. Once again I like the guy and I don't think it says anything bad about him if we had him come off the bench. If anything that would speak to the overall talent of the team.

  17. #392
    I am not object to him going to bench at all. What I enjoy the most from him is the energy he brings to the court. Like in last two games, he almost brought the team back but failed at the end.

    It's always good to have full of talent on the team. But we really need to add some other offense dimensions other than what we have right now. First, we don't have a swing man yet. Second, we don't have a skilled big man. I envy the teams having Marco Gasol, David Lee , of course Tim Duncan, even Paul Gasol. Those are big mans can pass, which really make your offense more diversified.

    For the hornets, Ryan Anderson seems can pass but he already has too much to do at this moment. Then it comes to Davis and Lopez, I prefer to have Davis developed that way, which will take time.


    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    I agree if he could add that to his game. He tries it a lot but is rarely successful.

    I don't see the problem with being a good backup in the NBA. Fans act like it is degrading to come off the bench. If we have the opportunity to draft or trade for an upgrade at PG, it can seriously help us having GV in the 2nd unit.

  18. #393
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-Fense View Post
    It's all about pace. Looking at basic PPG numbers does not tell the full story. Houston averages 104 PPG (3rd best in the NBA), shouldn't they be better than 12-12? Well, they're actually 10th in offensive efficiency and score so high because they place at the fastest pace in the NBA. It's the same reason why GS could score so many points and lose so many games. Fast pace =/= good offense. The team is losing because of their defense, not the offense. We are dead last in the NBA on defense and it isn't even that close.

    I didn't even mention Vasquez in the original post but I agree, he has his flaws. Most of them are on the defensive side of the ball though. He'd look better with a better team for sure. I mean he's playing with Austin Rivers (who will eventually be good but right now he's been pretty bad) and someone new every night at SF. There's not a whole lot of help. He's not a starter but I think he's doing an admirable job given the circumstances. Also I expect him and Davis to form some better chemistry as time goes on. Vasquez will learn Davis' tendencies and will be able to get him the ball more often. They've only played about 10 games together. Give them time.
    Why are the rockets 12-12? Because there is only 1 team in the NBA that gives up more points than them.

    I Agree about Vasuqez but I never said he hasn't done a respectable job or should be out the NBA I just said IMO he isn't our starter for the future. Maybe his deficiencies on defense wouldn't be noticed as much if EJ were here???? But he isn't and I am starting to approach things like he wont be. I just think if there is an opportunity to upgrade the PG position we should take it.

  19. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    I agree if he could add that to his game. He tries it a lot but is rarely successful.

    I don't see the problem with being a good backup in the NBA. Fans act like it is degrading to come off the bench. If we have the opportunity to draft or trade for an upgrade at PG, it can seriously help us having GV in the 2nd unit.
    I would love to have a true PG without getting rid of Vasquez. He could basically share a 6th man position with Ryno. I couldn't think of a better person than Vasquez to run a 2nd unit and embrace the role. I would love him and Roberts to run the 2nd unit with Vasquez playing SG being the primary Ball Handler like a younger Ginobli. But if we have to trade or package him for Jennings/Bledsoe do it immediately.

  20. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Not this week this year. You can tell he worked on his 3pt in the offseason. And that is what I love about him. If he has a problem that can be fixed he will work hard to get it corrected. Once again I like the guy and I don't think it says anything bad about him if we had him come off the bench. If anything that would speak to the overall talent of the team.
    I just said this week because he has really shown us what he is capable of these past few games (17 assists, near triple double, two fourth quarter comebacks, good shooting percentage). Again, I'm excited for tonight because last time he played LA he played like I know he can and with his recent performances tonight could be a good game

  21. #396
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Bee-Fense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisingTheBrow View Post
    Why are the rockets 12-12? Because there is only 1 team in the NBA that gives up more points than them.

    I Agree about Vasuqez but I never said he hasn't done a respectable job or should be out the NBA I just said IMO he isn't our starter for the future. Maybe his deficiencies on defense wouldn't be noticed as much if EJ were here???? But he isn't and I am starting to approach things like he wont be. I just think if there is an opportunity to upgrade the PG position we should take it.
    Because they play at the fastest pace in the NBA!

    What is more impressive: A team that scores 100 points on 100 possessions or a team that scores 95 points on 90 possessions? Team efficiency is way more important than basic numbers. Chris Paul always plays at a slower pace and so his teams will never lead in PPG. But they're almost always top 5 in efficiency (see 2007-2008 Hornets) which is way more important.

    And yeah, Gordon would make him look way better I think. We'll see what happens there. Maybe Gordon returns next week and he plays 50 games this year and everything looks good. Maybe he's shipped out for peanuts. Who knows? I agree though, if we have the chance to upgrade PG I think we should take it. I like Vasquez but he is not a starter on a good team. I like Jeff Teague a lot and would be interested in adding him to the team.

    I don't think we really disagree on Vasquez. I was just pointing out what you said about the team's offensive production.

  22. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by jacklvyn View Post
    I am not object to him going to bench at all. What I enjoy the most from him is the energy he brings to the court. Like in last two games, he almost brought the team back but failed at the end.

    It's always good to have full of talent on the team. But we really need to add some other offense dimensions other than what we have right now. First, we don't have a swing man yet. Second, we don't have a skilled big man. I envy the teams having Marco Gasol, David Lee , of course Tim Duncan, even Paul Gasol. Those are big mans can pass, which really make your offense more diversified.

    For the hornets, Ryan Anderson seems can pass but he already has too much to do at this moment. Then it comes to Davis and Lopez, I prefer to have Davis developed that way, which will take time.
    We don't have a skilled big man? Davis is a 20 year old rookie who just came back from injury. He is as skilled as it gets just raw. He has more ability then anyone of those guys you just mentioned you envy. Of course he may never be Duncan, but as far as skilled. I can't find a big man with more skill and gifts than him. He is definitely a superstar in the making. Plus we have Anderson who is the best 3pt big man in the NBA who also happened to be very skilled in post offense and defense. The guy can play 2 positions very well and even be a wingman at times covering and playing 3's. Then you add a very athletic, great midrange shooter, and vey good defender and 2 positions in Smith who happen to be a 7', pretty skilled to me. He is forgettable at the moment because he hasn't been healthy once this year. Then to have a very capable 7' in Lopez who shows decent skills as your 4th big man on a team would be envied by me. Of course we could maybe use a better center, but once Davis develops and lineup plays together by 3rd year will be the best big man group skill wise, defensively, and offensively in the NBA!

  23. #398
    Please read more carefully I was referring passing skill of big man. None of our big mans are even close in that area. The ones I mentioned are having at least 3.5 assist per game.

    Maybe I should add Joakim Noah as well.

    I also said I hope Davis can develop a passing skill, which he clearly is learning now. Also post move as I said in my other posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    We don't have a skilled big man? Davis is a 20 year old rookie who just came back from injury. He is as skilled as it gets just raw. He has more ability then anyone of those guys you just mentioned you envy. Of course he may never be Duncan, but as far as skilled. I can't find a big man with more skill and gifts than him. He is definitely a superstar in the making. Plus we have Anderson who is the best 3pt big man in the NBA who also happened to be very skilled in post offense and defense. The guy can play 2 positions very well and even be a wingman at times covering and playing 3's. Then you add a very athletic, great midrange shooter, and vey good defender and 2 positions in Smith who happen to be a 7', pretty skilled to me. He is forgettable at the moment because he hasn't been healthy once this year. Then to have a very capable 7' in Lopez who shows decent skills as your 4th big man on a team would be envied by me. Of course we could maybe use a better center, but once Davis develops and lineup plays together by 3rd year will be the best big man group skill wise, defensively, and offensively in the NBA!

  24. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by GuardianAngel25 View Post
    We don't have a skilled big man? Davis is a 20 year old rookie who just came back from injury. He is as skilled as it gets just raw. He has more ability then anyone of those guys you just mentioned you envy. Of course he may never be Duncan, but as far as skilled. I can't find a big man with more skill and gifts than him. He is definitely a superstar in the making. Plus we have Anderson who is the best 3pt big man in the NBA who also happened to be very skilled in post offense and defense. The guy can play 2 positions very well and even be a wingman at times covering and playing 3's. Then you add a very athletic, great midrange shooter, and vey good defender and 2 positions in Smith who happen to be a 7', pretty skilled to me. He is forgettable at the moment because he hasn't been healthy once this year. Then to have a very capable 7' in Lopez who shows decent skills as your 4th big man on a team would be envied by me. Of course we could maybe use a better center, but once Davis develops and lineup plays together by 3rd year will be the best big man group skill wise, defensively, and offensively in the NBA!

    The last skilled passing big man on this team was Ayon.

  25. #400
    The Voice of Reason Contributor RaisingTheBar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneralGreivis View Post
    I just said this week because he has really shown us what he is capable of these past few games (17 assists, near triple double, two fourth quarter comebacks, good shooting percentage). Again, I'm excited for tonight because last time he played LA he played like I know he can and with his recent performances tonight could be a good game
    O I know I was just saying I have seen an improvement in his game from last year to this year.

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