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Thread: Is it too early to talk about the 2013 NBA Draft?

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    If we're #5 and he's there, I wouldn't complain about having both of them. If we had a shot at a PG or a Shabazz type player, it'd be upset.
    I agree with you on the 3, but I don't think PG's are a priority to be honest. It's not a great comparison, but I feel like PG's are kind of the RB's of the NFL - it's easier to find a "steal" at PG than any other position. Teams that are stacked at other positions can still win titles with mediocre PG's. I'm new here but I bet ya'll have had the debate during the CP3 years of "when's the last PG driven team to win a title?".

    So I'd rank positions of importance in today's NBA as: Small Forward, Shooting Guard, Center/Power Forward (tie), Point Guard. I might even say that a slashing 6th man type like Ginobli or Harden is MORE important than your starting PG.
    Dell Demps - the new Jeff Bower

  2. #27
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    Fair point I was kinda being blustery just to goof around. I'll tame it down a bit ok?
    It's much harder to change the culture of losing and accepting it then visa versa. That's why i'm not "pro-lose" and taking bad talent on purpose. I don't think anyone really respected teams last year for tanking and I would like to be a respectable franchise. This type of character from the front office is what changes the mindset of external players to sign here or not sign here, and it really focuses who will want to come here: Money grubbing players with talent who just care about padding their pocketbooks and winning is a nice consolation or money grubbing players with talent who care about padding their pocketbooks, and winning is a must.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    I agree with you on the 3, but I don't think PG's are a priority to be honest. It's not a great comparison, but I feel like PG's are kind of the RB's of the NFL - it's easier to find a "steal" at PG than any other position. Teams that are stacked at other positions can still win titles with mediocre PG's. I'm new here but I bet ya'll have had the debate during the CP3 years of "when's the last PG driven team to win a title?".

    So I'd rank positions of importance in today's NBA as: Small Forward, Shooting Guard, Center/Power Forward (tie), Point Guard. I might even say that a slashing 6th man type like Ginobli or Harden is MORE important than your starting PG.
    This team is failing right now due to a number of things, but not having a guy to command the floor is a pretty huge reason. Some teams can get away without having one, but I don't think with our make-up we are one of those teams.

    And you may think Ginobili or Harden may be more important, but can you honestly say they were more important than Parker or Westbrook? Clearly the Thunder disagree and i would venture to guess the Spurs would as well.

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    This team is failing right now due to a number of things, but not having a guy to command the floor is a pretty huge reason. Some teams can get away without having one, but I don't think with our make-up we are one of those teams.
    Yeah but project to next year if we have Austin developing with another year under his belt and a healthy Gordon teamed up with Anderson and a more mature AD23. Suddenly that court will open up a TON more as a result of the superior scoring options around it. I wonder what even CP3 could do with this ragtag bunch? There is literally no scoring option for Vasquez to go to - every second of every possession is a plodding, syrupy mess for him to deal with. I think he's done a decent job with what he's been given. Collison and Lin (for example) would probably be averaging 7 turnovers per game if they were the PG's of this Hornets team.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    Yeah but project to next year if we have Austin developing with another year under his belt and a healthy Gordon teamed up with Anderson and a more mature AD23. Suddenly that court will open up a TON more as a result of the superior scoring options around it. I wonder what even CP3 could do with this ragtag bunch? There is literally no scoring option for Vasquez to go to - every second of every possession is a plodding, syrupy mess for him to deal with. I think he's done a decent job with what he's been given. Collison and Lin (for example) would probably be averaging 7 turnovers per game if they were the PG's of this Hornets team.
    CP3 would make this team a playoff team. He's 10 times better than Roberts and Vasquez.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Inner_GI View Post
    CP3 would make this team a playoff team. He's 10 times better than Roberts and Vasquez.
    Actually....CP3 took the Lakers to 6 games with a team with far less talented than what we have now. A floor general makes all the difference with the way Monty runs his team.....

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_318 View Post
    Actually....CP3 took the Lakers to 6 games with a team with far less talented than what we have now. A floor general makes all the difference with the way Monty runs his team.....
    Disagree about the far less talented team part. I think they were more talented than this group.

  8. #33
    I will be tracking this draft class all year, but if I were a betting man, I just have a feeling that Dell moves this pick for a young vet. Can't imagine Monty wanting to add another 19 year old to this roster. Apparently, OKC was entertaining the thought of trading Harden for the #2 or #3 pick last year (to grab Beal) and I think Dell actively seeks out something like that to round out this roster rather than bringing in another 2-3 year project.

    If he does stay in the draft, however, my opinion is that you always take BPA regardless of position. These guys wont develop for 3-4 years and by then, most rosters are drastically overturned, so why take for a need you have today?
    @mcnamara247

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I will be tracking this draft class all year, but if I were a betting man, I just have a feeling that Dell moves this pick for a young vet. Can't imagine Monty wanting to add another 19 year old to this roster. Apparently, OKC was entertaining the thought of trading Harden for the #2 or #3 pick last year (to grab Beal) and I think Dell actively seeks out something like that to round out this roster rather than bringing in another 2-3 year project.

    If he does stay in the draft, however, my opinion is that you always take BPA regardless of position. These guys wont develop for 3-4 years and by then, most rosters are drastically overturned, so why take for a need you have today?
    Interesting thought but I think a few of these guys (Muhammad, Zeller, McLemore, Smart) could actually contribute fairly quickly. I think there are fewer "projects" at the top of this year's lottery than usual. I would trust Dell to seek out a good fit if he does consider trading a pick for a young veteran starter. Will be fun to see it play out.

  10. #35
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    We absolutely need to go after SF with our draft pick. There seems to be an extreme shortage of available talented SF's out there, particularly young ones. Could we use a PG. Yes. But I think that Gordon alleviates the pressure of PG in our system once he returns, being that we are so PnR oriented.

    I honestly think we are fine at C. Everyone wants to express it takes Big men longer to develop. Well we have a young talented Center doing just that in front of our eyes. This is the first time Lopez has seen significant play time and he is definitely improving. In 3 years I think he will be a top 10 Center.

    And my main logic behind us going after SF is that the marginal difference if we are to upgrade at any position will be greatest at SF. Because we are awful at that position. I would be willing to bet we get less production out of our 3 than any team in the NBA.

  11. #36
    All World Contributor FlyGirl's Avatar
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    Hornets vs. Lakers playoff roster

    Paul
    Belinelli
    Ariza
    Landry
    Okafor

    Jack
    Willie Green
    Jason Smith
    Aaron Gray
    Mbenga

    P.Ewing Jr. DNP
    Pondexter DNP
    D.West DNP

    2012-13

    Vasquez
    Rivers
    Mason
    Aminu
    Davis
    Anderson
    Smith
    Lopez
    Miller
    Roberts
    Thomas
    Henry






    Gordon

  12. #37
    McLemore and Smart are high upside prospects but they would both lead the NBA in turnovers if they got minutes early on. Zeller, I agree could be a 15 min per game solid contributor on a good team right away, and maybe Muhammad could be a solid 3rd guard, but if this team has guys ready to win now in Gordon and Anderson and players they are already developing in Rivers and Davis, then I just see a young vet who you dont have to coach every day, who already knows how to play, would be the way Dell and Monty would prefer to go.

    I can see a situation where Indy is wary of paying a Paul George or Portland wants to blow it up and offers Nic Batum or Aldridge, maybe Rudy Gay if the Grizz are one and done in the playoffs again. Who knows what can happen, but guys like that are always on the block for a high pick in June and I think Dell and Monty would prefer a guy like this over a developmental project. But we'll see

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I can see a situation where Indy is wary of paying a Paul George or Portland wants to blow it up and offers Nic Batum or Aldridge, maybe Rudy Gay if the Grizz are one and done in the playoffs again. Who knows what can happen, but guys like that are always on the block for a high pick in June and I think Dell and Monty would prefer a guy like this over a developmental project. But we'll see
    Yeah but if we pass on a cheap rookie contract/high lottery pick and instead go with a max or near-max player through a multi-team deal than EG10 had better be 100% healthy or else we're doomed to be the Hawks or Pacers. Continuing to draft cheap young studs minimizes the importance of needing EG10 to pan out because it buys us time in a constructive, steady rebuilding. If we shoot our load on a Gay or Batum and don't compete for title immediately we've wasted 3 or 4 years, we might lose the goodwill of Anthony Davis as we did Chris Paul, and then we'd be back to square one.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    Yeah but if we pass on a cheap rookie contract/high lottery pick and instead go with a max or near-max player through a multi-team deal than EG10 had better be 100% healthy or else we're doomed to be the Hawks or Pacers. Continuing to draft cheap young studs minimizes the importance of needing EG10 to pan out because it buys us time in a constructive, steady rebuilding. If we shoot our load on a Gay or Batum and don't compete for title immediately we've wasted 3 or 4 years, we might lose the goodwill of Anthony Davis as we did Chris Paul, and then we'd be back to square one.
    If there was a surefire, no fail answer to this whole process, every team would do it.

    You gotta calculate risks and rewards, possibilities and probabilities and then just go with it.

    Just going on my gut here, and my gut says that this is what Dell's best case scenario will be in June according to how he wants to build this team. He wants to build it more like the Spurs than the Thunder, hence the resigning of EG, the acquisition of Anderson and Lopez, etc. I think the next big move is a young vet, not a 19 year old, but we will see

  15. #40
    IMO the PGs were better....SG playonly slightly better because of Green but still just as inconsistant...SF is a wash between this team and playoff team cuz both Ariza and Aminu were/are bad....and the PF/C position is way better than the playoff team. With the way CP3 controls the floor and makes everyone better around him....I think this current team could have went further into the playoffs with this current team. But thats just me tho.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by HunnyB View Post
    Hornets vs. Lakers playoff roster

    Paul
    Belinelli
    Ariza
    Landry
    Okafor

    Jack
    Willie Green
    Jason Smith
    Aaron Gray
    Mbenga

    P.Ewing Jr. DNP
    Pondexter DNP
    D.West DNP

    2012-13

    Vasquez
    Rivers
    Mason
    Aminu
    Davis
    Anderson
    Smith
    Lopez
    Miller
    Roberts
    Thomas
    Henry






    Gordon
    IMO the PGs were better....SG play only slightly better because of Green but still just as inconsistant...SF is a wash between this team and playoff team cuz both Ariza and Aminu were/are bad....and the PF/C position is way better than the playoff team. With the way CP3 controls the floor and makes everyone better around him....I think this current team could have went further into the playoffs with CP3. But thats just me tho.

  17. #42
    The Franchise goat gorilla's Avatar
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    I Can't see Portland blowing it up. If they did, I can't see them giving up a 23 year old Batum, who is playing well. I believe they would flip Aldridge who would give them more in return. He is 27 and has the highest salary.

    I think we also wanted Brandon Rush pretty badly, but he tore his ACL. So he is now damaged goods.

    We will be busy this offseason. Probably a lot of lateral moves that make us slightly better, but we will make at least one big splash.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    If there was a surefire, no fail answer to this whole process, every team would do it.

    You gotta calculate risks and rewards, possibilities and probabilities and then just go with it.

    Just going on my gut here, and my gut says that this is what Dell's best case scenario will be in June according to how he wants to build this team. He wants to build it more like the Spurs than the Thunder, hence the resigning of EG, the acquisition of Anderson and Lopez, etc. I think the next big move is a young vet, not a 19 year old, but we will see
    This question may not have a defined answer yet, but what's a 1st round pick in the 3-8 range worth in terms of trade value?

  19. #44
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davisistheman View Post
    This question may not have a defined answer yet, but what's a 1st round pick in the 3-8 range worth in terms of trade value?
    I certainly wouldn't trade that pick for most of the guys mention above by MM. Not with max level salaries to not top 2 tier players. Sorry.

  20. #45
    Either trade this pick and get an established young vet PG or SF or draft a big... Noel, Zeller, Len etc.\

    But after weak attendane this year+ new name new colors new everything I could see Benson instructing Demps to do whatever it takes to put a playoff team on the floor next year.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by WisconsinHornet View Post
    Friends, we are only 196 days away from the 2013 NBA Draft! Currently our Hornets have the 4th worst record in the league, but do not despair! Our next 7 games are very difficult (including a 4-game stretch on the road) and we could easily be in 2nd place by the time the calendar strikes 2013...

    Here are the current top 5 projections from NBADraft.net

    1. Washington - Cody Zeller C
    2. Toronto - Nerlins Noel C
    3. Cleveland - Ben McLemore
    4. New Orleans - Shabazz Muhammad
    5. Detroit - Marcus Smart

    I know that on basketball forums a lot of posters want to "show off" their scouting abilities and find some unknown guy further down the draft board, but year after year NBADraft.net is top notch with their projections and fluidly move guys up and down their big board based on their play and teams' needs. We're so bad that we're almost certainly going to have a top 6 pick, so let's not have you spout off some middling prospect who's currently 17th just so you can look intelligent. Going of their list of realistic candidates, I'd rank them this way in order of desirability:

    1. Nerlins Noel
    2. Shabazz Muhammad
    3. Ben McLemore
    4. Marcus Smart
    5. Cody Zeller
    6. Archie Goodwin

    Noel paired with Anthony Davis would be sick - such a natural fit in so many ways.. their UK ties, his name, their defensive abilities, their athleticism, their length, etc. It would be like having Tyson Chandler and Tim Duncan in their primes on the same team - are you freaking kidding me?!?! We could easily afford to play Ryno at the 3 for a good bit of the time and have the two big guys mask his defensive liabilities considerably. Random FA Point Guard, Gordon, Anderson, Davis, and Noel with Rivers as 6th man would be insane. If Rivers could handle the point with Gordon helping out that would be an amazingly fun starting 5 to watch.

    People who are anti-losing are so short-sighted. If you root for us to win another game until we're safely locked into a top 4 draft pick I question your fanhood - seriously. Ask Indianapolis Colts fans how they're enjoying this season and how they will enjoy the next 15 seasons. Ask them if they enjoyed Peyton Manning's 14 seasons as their starting QB and former #1 overall pick (For the record - that's 29 years of insanely fun football sandwiching a single 1-15 season. That's all it took. We could be the Colts of the NBA). Ask Oklahoma City Thunder fans if they're upset they didn't win 10 extra meaningless games in 2009, or if they're happy with that season and looking forward to COMPETING FOR CHAMPIONSHIPS IN A SOLD OUT ARENA FOR THE NEXT TWELVE YEARS.
    YES. It's too early. We still need to see how the entire team plays as group before we begin discussion on next year.
    BELIEVE IN DEMPS!

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    I certainly wouldn't trade that pick for most of the guys mention above by MM. Not with max level salaries to not top 2 tier players. Sorry.
    So go back to the last 5 drafts and chart all the players drafted 3-8. How many would you take over Paul George, Batum, Aldridge, or Gay?

    Having a guy on a rookie salary is nice and all in theory, but eventually you need players who can actually play to win in this league. I mean, who is going to help you win more LaMarcus Aldridge or Thomas Robinson? Gay or Dion Walters?

    It is worth considering for sure

  23. #48
    I would take Aldridge or Gay in a heartbeat. 2 of my favorite players in the league.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    So go back to the last 5 drafts and chart all the players drafted 3-8. How many would you take over Paul George, Batum, Aldridge, or Gay?

    Having a guy on a rookie salary is nice and all in theory, but eventually you need players who can actually play to win in this league. I mean, who is going to help you win more LaMarcus Aldridge or Thomas Robinson? Gay or Dion Walters?

    It is worth considering for sure
    Who knows as of now, but it would be hypocritical of me to talk about teams overpaying for Batum and Gay in the first place and then commend us for trading for that contract. Aldridge, I don't think is for trade unless AD is on the table. So i'd like to pull him from the list because i would give up a pick for him. Batum is having a fine year, but this is really his first year to prove it and is on a pretty huge deal. Gay is another story, and while I like his production I don't think it merits his salary considering the new bird level penalties and the fact we have a guy sitting on the bench making that kind of money as well.

    I know the argument will be brought up that we will have to overpay to get a guys of this calibre, and I agree; but I think we can only afford (in both senses of the word) to take on one overpriced guy at a time. If we didn't have Gordon on the roster, i'd be completely on board with this, but we do.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by hornetstime247 View Post
    Either trade this pick and get an established young vet PG or SF or draft a big... Noel, Zeller, Len etc.\

    But after weak attendane this year+ new name new colors new everything I could see Benson instructing Demps to do whatever it takes to put a playoff team on the floor next year.
    I actually agree with all of this from A to Z....I don't think that Benson will allow the grass to grow under our feet, because I truly believe he wants to build a "winner" here before his days are done....
    "we might make dollars, but we don't necessarily make sense"

    "always be sincere....whether you mean it or not"

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