Gameday Thread: Hornets @ Nuggets

[PelsFan2313]

I'm amazed that after these same 11 games people think that this dude is a future all-star

I never said that. What I did say is that I've seen a lot of good with the bad. And that this good along with the fact that hes only had a small sample of work should encourage fans to stay patient with Rivers and not jump off his bandwagon before the kid even turns 21. We all knew he'd be a project coming in. Give him the chance to develop for goodness sake.

[Bee-Fense]

Extreme overreaction is an understatement. Do you even remember when Demps told this fan base not to expect miracles in year 1? If you would kindly step off the ledge and think about it, Rivers is barely 20 years old. Demps drafted him as a project, and he has shown many flashes of what he can be on a consistent basis. Give it time before your spew this crap. 11 games, and you are crying like a baby! Stop! Demps warned you. It isn't his fault you didn't listen.

I'm saying I'm not optimistic by what I see and I'm saying we're expecting A LOT of improvement if we ever want Austin to be a starting PG on a championship team. That calls for deeming me as a crybaby and that I'm overreacting? Did my explanation for my thoughts generate the idea that I'm being a crybaby?

The thing is, I'm not saying he'll be a total bust and be in Europe. It's way too early to say that.

However, what I AM saying is that based on what we've seen on the court, we really should not be encouraged if we plan on being contenders. I dare you to find me a player that played this bad and ended up being worth anything on a quality team. Not even the most extreme of projects produced (key word here) this poorly.

To only watch the second half of what was essentially a blowout and make judgments based on garbage time is absurd, especially if you are going to go online and act like a basketball elite.

Am I any more absurd to judge off of a 12 game sample than you are to judge off a half of garbage time, regardless if the judgment is positive or negative?

[UptownFuz504]

I'm saying I'm not optimistic by what I see and I'm saying we're expecting A LOT of improvement if we ever want Austin to be a starting PG on a championship team. That calls for deeming me as a crybaby and that I'm overreacting? Did my explanation for my thoughts generate the idea that I'm being a crybaby?

The thing is, I'm not saying he'll be a total bust and be in Europe. It's way too early to say that.

However, what I AM saying is that based on what we've seen on the court, we really should not be encouraged if we plan on being contenders. I dare you to find me a player that played this bad and ended up being worth anything on a quality team. Not even the most extreme of projects produced (key word here) this poorly.

To only watch the second half of what was essentially a blowout and make judgments based on garbage time is absurd, especially if you are going to go online and act like a basketball elite.

Am I any more absurd to judge off of a 12 game sample than you are to judge off a half of garbage time, regardless if the judgment is positive or negative?

Yet another good post

[nolaslim213]

I'm not going to get in a war of words but it is very presumptuous to think that I don't know basketball simply because I do not agree with your assertion that Rivers is playing well. I say, that based on what I'm watching, that you do not know much about bball. The Rivers love is based purely on fandom and not what's going on on the court. If you're going to use his age as an excuse, maybe he should have stayed in college to better prepare for this level.

If you are this down on Rivers this early in his career, then I can only attribute it to ignorance of the sport. Perhaps you are just bashing him because you are in a bad mood or something, but the kid is a 20 year old rookie, and you can't expect him to set the world on fire 11 games into the season.

I'm saying I'm not optimistic by what I see and I'm saying we're expecting A LOT of improvement if we ever want Austin to be a starting PG on a championship team. That calls for deeming me as a crybaby and that I'm overreacting? Did my explanation for my thoughts generate the idea that I'm being a crybaby?

The thing is, I'm not saying he'll be a total bust and be in Europe. It's way too early to say that.

However, what I AM saying is that based on what we've seen on the court, we really should not be encouraged if we plan on being contenders. I dare you to find me a player that played this bad and ended up being worth anything on a quality team. Not even the most extreme of projects produced (key word here) this poorly.

To only watch the second half of what was essentially a blowout and make judgments based on garbage time is absurd, especially if you are going to go online and act like a basketball elite.

Am I any more absurd to judge off of a 12 game sample than you are to judge off a half of garbage time, regardless if the judgment is positive or negative?

The difference is that you are only judging him on production, which I think is ludicrous. I am judging him off of his tools that he is displaying - court vision, setting his teammates up, running the PnR well, running the offense, running the break, heads up defensive plays. In that regard, he isn't playing bad at all. In fact, he has exceeded my expectations in terms of running a team from the PG position. I thought it would take much longer for him to have the court vision that he has right now, but he is progressing at a fantastic rate. He needs to put on muscle, sure, but the kid has everything he needs upstairs to become an All Star. That is my point. Once he starts hitting his shot and converting at the rim, he'll put up the numbers that you and so many others desperately crave of him. Until then, enjoy is growth.

And by the way, if a few guys hit their shots tonight (mainly Jason Smith), Rivers has double digit assists. He was setting up people left and right, and they just missed their open looks. It happens.

[Razorpens]

If you are this down on Rivers this early in his career, then I can only attribute it to ignorance of the sport. Perhaps you are just bashing him because you are in a bad mood or something, but the kid is a 20 year old rookie, and you can't expect him to set the world on fire 11 games into the season.



The difference is that you are only judging him on production, which I think is ludicrous. I am judging him off of his tools that he is displaying - court vision, setting his teammates up, running the PnR well, running the offense, running the break, heads up defensive plays. In that regard, he isn't playing bad at all. In fact, he has exceeded my expectations in terms of running a team from the PG position. I thought it would take much longer for him to have the court vision that he has right now, but he is progressing at a fantastic rate. He needs to put on muscle, sure, but the kid has everything he needs upstairs to become an All Star. That is my point. Once he starts hitting his shot and converting at the rim, he'll put up the numbers that you and so many others desperately crave of him. Until then, enjoy is growth.

And by the way, if a few guys hit their shots tonight (mainly Jason Smith), Rivers has double digit assists. He was setting up people left and right, and they just missed their open looks. It happens.

Tellem nolasliim. Cant wait three years from now when this dude balling out for the hornets. He has the work ethic and is young. He'll get better every year. You guys just don't have faith

[GeauxSaints53]

I was at the game. I can't say much about the game since y'all prolly had better views than I did for the most part. But I felt pretty bad for the team watching them on the bench. Just empty looks from the players and exhausted looks from the coaches. Once again, it was clear we were just too under-talented and young to contend.

[Bee-Fense]

The difference is that you are only judging him on production, which I think is ludicrous. I am judging him off of his tools that he is displaying - court vision, setting his teammates up, running the PnR well, running the offense, running the break, heads up defensive plays. In that regard, he isn't playing bad at all. In fact, he has exceeded my expectations in terms of running a team from the PG position. I thought it would take much longer for him to have the court vision that he has right now, but he is progressing at a fantastic rate. He needs to put on muscle, sure, but the kid has everything he needs upstairs to become an All Star. That is my point. Once he starts hitting his shot and converting at the rim, he'll put up the numbers that you and so many others desperately crave of him. Until then, enjoy is growth.

And by the way, if a few guys hit their shots tonight (mainly Jason Smith), Rivers has double digit assists. He was setting up people left and right, and they just missed their open looks. It happens.

To ignore the production is what is ludicrous. You have to account for both. He is not producing. We praise Anderson for his production and put down people like Rudy Gay because of his production in order to say our player is better than theirs', yet we praise Austin for the opposite reason we praise Anderson. What's more important, the production or the tools?

Regardless, I mentioned many of his tools (albeit negative) how he is really not that great of an athlete, how he does not play well off the ball, how he badly needs to work on his floater, and that he struggles against real pressure against defenses. Combine that with a streaky jumpshot thanks to his poor form, and there is a lot he needs to work on besides obviously getting stronger.

My main concern is that we're discussing all of these problems on the offensive side and we're not even talking about what we thought was going to be his weakest point and probably has been so far - his defense.

I will concur that he has exceeded my expectations in terms of his PG skills so far. There's not a doubt in my mind he is a PG more than a SG at this level. Maybe if he's given the keys to the offense for longer stretches I'll change my mind about him. He did set up some nice passes for Jason Smith tonight, I will give him that.

Also I'm not quite getting what you mean when you say "the kid has everything he needs upstairs to become an All Star." Is that to say that any well spoken player is any more qualified to become an All Star? To me it's things like this which makes me believe that his personality and upbringing are really deluding perceptions on his game. I think we all want Austin to succeed, but we have to look at what he's given us so far and ignore what he did in High School or the attention he gets because of his last name. If we do this and observe him how we would a Xavier Henry, we would see that so far there really is not that much there. But that is so far.

There is time for him to turn it around, and I hope he does, but I'm just not very optimistic at this point.

[da ThRONe]

To ignore the production is what is ludicrous. You have to account for both. He is not producing. We praise Anderson for his production and put down people like Rudy Gay because of his production in order to say our player is better than theirs', yet we praise Austin for the opposite reason we praise Anderson. What's more important, the production or the tools?

Regardless, I mentioned many of his tools (albeit negative) how he is really not that great of an athlete, how he does not play well off the ball, how he badly needs to work on his floater, and that he struggles against real pressure against defenses. Combine that with a streaky jumpshot thanks to his poor form, and there is a lot he needs to work on besides obviously getting stronger.

My main concern is that we're discussing all of these problems on the offensive side and we're not even talking about what we thought was going to be his weakest point and probably has been so far - his defense.

I will concur that he has exceeded my expectations in terms of his PG skills so far. There's not a doubt in my mind he is a PG more than a SG at this level. Maybe if he's given the keys to the offense for longer stretches I'll change my mind about him. He did set up some nice passes for Jason Smith tonight, I will give him that.

Also I'm not quite getting what you mean when you say "the kid has everything he needs upstairs to become an All Star." Is that to say that any well spoken player is any more qualified to become an All Star? To me it's things like this which makes me believe that his personality and upbringing are really deluding perceptions on his game. I think we all want Austin to succeed, but we have to look at what he's given us so far and ignore what he did in High School or the attention he gets because of his last name. If we do this and observe him how we would a Xavier Henry, we would see that so far there really is not that much there. But that is so far.

There is time for him to turn it around, and I hope he does, but I'm just not very optimistic at this point.

Just my 2 cents. It's both. All things must be considered when evaluating a player. Often times production take a hit or boost based on system and/or what a player is asked to do for the team.

As a for Rivers he's a rookie so what you generally expect to see is the tools more so than the production as he matures and begin to figure the league out. All production isn't equal and not all advanced stats represent this accurately.

[hornetslover89]

It's amazing how some have forgotten a 19 year old kid by the name of JR Smith in which we drafted. JR Smith had way more skills, potential and athletic ability than Rivers, although JR factors were limited to mental than Rivers' athletic ability. I hate we gave up on JR under Bryon Scott so quickly but please let's not settle for the lack thereof concerning Rivers. So I wonder, is Rivers inability to shoot at times due to mental or is he listening to media hype to much? At times he's not aggressive, pass on open shots, turn the ball over alot and dribbles with his head down. I'm not the expert here but is this mental or did Demps and Monty believe all the hype about this kid? One thing I don't agree with is benching Austin Rivers for a mistake prone Roger Mason Jr whose worst than a developing kid. Stick with the kid because who benefits more a developing kid (Rivers) or a has been mistake prone (Mason Jr.). I hope we don't make the mistake concerning draft picks as we did with JR. Smith? One thing about investing is allowing the investment to mature in order to get a return. That's how I view our draft picks. We have done a horrible job in the past.

[Kibner]

It seems to me that bringing Rivers off the bench puts him in a situation where he needs to be more ball dominant which should help in his development.

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[nolaslim213]

It's amazing how some have forgotten a 19 year old kid by the name of JR Smith in which we drafted. JR Smith had way more skills, potential and athletic ability than Rivers, although JR factors were limited to mental than Rivers' athletic ability. I hate we gave up on JR under Bryon Scott so quickly but please let's not settle for the lack thereof concerning Rivers. So I wonder, is Rivers inability to shoot at times due to mental or is he listening to media hype to much? At times he's not aggressive, pass on open shots, turn the ball over alot and dribbles with his head down. I'm not the expert here but is this mental or did Demps and Monty believe all the hype about this kid? One thing I don't agree with is benching Austin Rivers for a mistake prone Roger Mason Jr whose worst than a developing kid. Stick with the kid because who benefits more a developing kid (Rivers) or a has been mistake prone (Mason Jr.). I hope we don't make the mistake concerning draft picks as we did with JR. Smith? One thing about investing is allowing the investment to mature in order to get a return. That's how I view our draft picks. We have done a horrible job in the past.

I wouldn't say that's true at all. Rivers is just as talented as Smith, but Rivers is putting his team's needs above his own. He is concentrating on running a team, not getting his own shot. He is intentionally passing up wide open looks in favor of his teammates because he wants to develop as a PG, and people are chastising him for it (not saying you, but many are). Rivers could get 15 points a night if he wanted, but that doesn't help him develop. He is trying to get his looks within the system and AFTER he looks for his teammates first. That is maturity at its best.