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Thread: OMG, Drummond or Lillard - What Could Have Been

  1. #101
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    No one should expect much from Rivers in the first couple of seasons. He's raw, especially at the point. Year 3 will forecast what kind of player he will be long-term. I'm not gonna label him a bust from what he does in the first two seasons.

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  2. #102
    All-Star Blaqmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    I knew we should have done whatever it took to move up to draft one of these two.

    We could have gotten Drummond by trading up to the Raps two spots ahead. We could have got their pick very cheaply because there was no way the Pistons would have taken their pick, Terrence Ross.

    Maybe Lillard was out of our reach, but I knew he was going to be a star.

    Now Drummond is looking like the reincarnation of Shaquille O'Neal and Lillard is probably an all-star level point guard. Both are going to be stellar players in the league for years and years to come.


    Why were the Hornets so stuck on Austin Rivers?!?
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  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    You are missing the point by a mile. We don't know where Davis will be ranked in this draft class. Everybody thought John Wall was a can't miss prospect and now only after 2 years many are second guessing themselves. So you can't say Davis is the best player in the class simply because we don't know. If you want to say he's the best prospect that's completely different, but just like I said projections are way off enough not to crown players before they are even a min into the part of the season where teams care if they win or lose.
    I don't think this is a good comparison at all. John Wall was considered the best player in an incredibly weak draft. Anthony Davis was considered one of the top 3 or 4 prospects over about 15 years of drafts.

    John Wall's draft class was horrific and if it was re-done today, he would probably still go number 1. Besides, it's not like he's been terrible. He's a 16 pt 8 ast player on a terrible team. But it's not like he was considered a slam dunk.

  4. #104
    ^ Eh, I believe Demarcus was viewed as having better potential, but there were too many character/drive issues surrounding him during the draft. They definitely believed he had as much talent as Wall.

  5. #105
    All World Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kibner View Post
    ^ Eh, I believe Demarcus was viewed as having better potential, but there were too many character/drive issues surrounding him during the draft. They definitely believed he had as much talent as Wall.
    Agreed.

  6. #106
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    Wow! I didn't know you can tell what a player can be in 5 or 4 pre-season games. It's kinda hard for inexperience SG transfering into a PG was great that season. Nobody is saying this rough diamond would be a beauty. It will take time, this guy have talent that plenty don't. More than Lillard IMO, he is just a solid PG. Most importantly he is a hard worker.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by HunnyB View Post
    There are some that didn't like Rivers coming into the draft and there are some that don't like him now. They say things like "I hope I'm wrong" but truthfully, they're hoping they're right. I say give the guy a chance. I'd hate to be a rookie coming in and the only chance I get is my 2 summer league games and a handful of preseason games. I mean the guy hasn't even gotten midway through his professional career and we're having "OMG!!" threads. And the OP says he's been watching the NBA for 30 years. If that's true, you ought to know that sometimes it takes a while for some players to develop. Not everyone comes out blazing looking like All-Stars. Give the guy a chance.
    If I had to guess he's probably under 24 which might explain why he thinks you can figure out how a rookies career will go based on a few preseason games. There are plenty of people under 24 that know how long it takes for most rookies to develop, but he's not one of them.

  8. #108
    All World Contributor FlyGirl's Avatar
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    Looking back on my post I shouldn't have said "...the guy hasn't even gotten midway through his professional career...". Forget about career. He hasn't even gotten midway through his first professional SEASON.

  9. #109
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! da ThRONe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradael View Post
    I don't think this is a good comparison at all. John Wall was considered the best player in an incredibly weak draft. Anthony Davis was considered one of the top 3 or 4 prospects over about 15 years of drafts.

    John Wall's draft class was horrific and if it was re-done today, he would probably still go number 1. Besides, it's not like he's been terrible. He's a 16 pt 8 ast player on a terrible team. But it's not like he was considered a slam dunk.
    I wasn't looking for a 1 to 1 comparison just the fact that highly touted prospects don't always turn into stars.

    Contrary to what some people here are assuming I never said Davis would be a bad player and most certainly not a bust. He's just not a franchise once in a generation player.

  10. #110
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    OMG, Drummond or Lillard - What Could Have Been

    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I wasn't looking for a 1 to 1 comparison just the fact that highly touted prospects don't always turn into stars.

    Contrary to what some people here are assuming I never said Davis would be a bad player and most certainly not a bust. He's just not a franchise once in a generation player.
    A lot of people disagree with that last sentence especially when it comes to his defense and overall feel for the game.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Metairie Hornet View Post
    If I had to guess he's probably under 24 which might explain why he thinks you can figure out how a rookies career will go based on a few preseason games. There are plenty of people under 24 that know how long it takes for most rookies to develop, but he's not one of them.
    Sometimes it takes a long time for a player to develop, but I have been around long enough to know usually you can see the flashes of what that player is going to be like in preseason. I just watched the Washington game and Beal looks like he is going to become a flat out star. He is making practically every shot, and even the ones he is missing look like they are going to go in. The guy has perfect form. Plus the guy is making all sorts of great little plays. He reminds me a bit of Wade actually. I would rather see him miss than most of his teammates make it. If you can't tell he is leagues beyond most of his teammates, I'm not sure you know how to watch basketball. And yeah I can tell AD is going to be a star too. You don't have to watch 100 games to realize this. You can just use your eyes and your mind and connect the dots. It is pretty obvious to any knowledgable NBA fan, haters excluded.

    But with Rivers I'm not seeing many if any flashes even. If his last name wasn't Rivers, would there be all this hoopla about him? Honestly?

    I've seen four rookies I think are going to be stars in this league: AD, Drummond, Lillard and Beal. Not sure about the rest. I have to put Rivers in the "Aminu" category at this point. He's clearly going to be a long term project. His ceiling might be Kevin Martin at this point. Maybe better I hope. He's just not impressing me. What can I say? Do you think scouts are not allowed to evaluate players after just one game? Hell yeah they are. That's not to say the player might improve or that the scout's evaluation would change over time. But it is fair to make an assessment on a player based on his current play. You should be able to see that player's standout qualities even if he isn't polished right away - at least some glimmer of it. If you don't see at least one standout quality, what you have on your hands is probably a mediocre player. With Drummond you can see he is going to be a beast who is going to wreck havoc against smaller, weaker players. With Beal, it is obvious he is going to shoot lights out. With AD, it's obvious he's going to be a defensive monster and even his offensive game looks very promising. Westbrook couldn't shoot the first couple years, but everyone could see his amazing quickness and athleticism. What is that "it" factor you are seeing in Rivers to give you hope? Please enlighten me because I haven't seen it yet. He has that one quick step, but that makes him like a poor man's Jamal Crawford if that's all he's got.

    Anyway, you can insult me all you want as some of you have been doing in this thread. That's fine. I have thick skin. But do me a favor and if the guy doesn't improve over whatever time frame YOU deem necessary to make your determination of him, then be sure to dig up this thread and give me the credit I am due.

    I'm actually sorry I can't tell you what you want to hear. I wish he would blow me away. I wish I could see that spark in him. But I don't.
    Last edited by sfernald; 10-15-2012 at 10:41 PM.

  12. #112
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    OMG, Drummond or Lillard - What Could Have Been

    Beal will be the best guard in this draft. I think Lamb will be the second best. He's a better SG than Rivers easily, offensively and defensively. But Rivers was drafted to play the point and to provide scoring off the dribble. None of the guys drafted after Rivers would be starting on the Hornets long-term over Davis, Anderson, and Gordon.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78 View Post
    Beal will be the best guard in this draft. I think Lamb will be the second best. He's a better SG than Rivers easily, offensively and defensively. But Rivers was drafted to play the point and to provide scoring off the dribble. None of the guys drafted after Rivers would be starting on the Hornets long-term over Davis, Anderson, and Gordon.
    I got no arguments with this. I haven't really seen any rookies that stand out above Rivers picked after him. I haven't seen everybody though yet.

    I do wish we had bought a pick in the 50s and nabbed Sacre. He is looking like he will be a great backup center.

  14. #114
    I'd rather have Smith playing center.

  15. #115
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    OMG, Drummond or Lillard - What Could Have Been

    Quote Originally Posted by Kibner View Post
    I'd rather have Smith playing center.
    Yeah. Sacre is a roster filler.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Hornets78 View Post
    Yeah. Sacre is a roster filler.
    Yeah, I agree. I just feel like we lost out on Sacre. He was our guy. We were going to snag him as an undrafted and then the lakers go and pick with the like the last pick, and now because of the Hill injury and his great play it looks like he is going to stick. It just gets under my skin that the lakers got him.

  17. #117
    All World Contributor FlyGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I just feel like we lost out on Sacre. He was our guy. We were going to snag him as an undrafted and then the lakers go and pick with the like the last pick, and now because of the Hill injury and his great play it looks like he is going to stick. It just gets under my skin that the lakers got him.
    Who is we?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by HunnyB View Post
    Who is we?
    I think Monty and Demps really liked him from tryouts and I'm betting that was the plan. Don't know for sure. Maybe we were planning on nabbing him with our second round pick until Miller dropped on our laps.

  19. #119
    Witch is dead - Now hiring thefuture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunnyB View Post
    Who is we?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    Yeah, I agree. I just feel like we lost out on Sacre. He was our guy. We were going to snag him as an undrafted and then the lakers go and pick with the like the last pick, and now because of the Hill injury and his great play it looks like he is going to stick. It just gets under my skin that the lakers got him.
    On noz the lakers selected a good player with their last pick I stead of a worse one. Conspiracy !

  21. #121
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    I think the odd thing here is no one is disputing sfernald's claim that Rivers hasn't shown any flashes of potential. He's shown his speed, his dribble moves, and his ability to get in front of his man and create turnovers. I think anyone who hasn't seen potential in Rivers' play yet simply doesn't want to see it.

  22. #122
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    I wasn't looking for a 1 to 1 comparison just the fact that highly touted prospects don't always turn into stars.

    Contrary to what some people here are assuming I never said Davis would be a bad player and most certainly not a bust. He's just not a franchise once in a generation player.
    If I remember correctly, you said Tyson Chandler as a peak.

  23. #123
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Rivers was drafted as a project, we didn't draft him to compete for a starting role or to even impress the coaches this year. You can't judge him now, or within the next year or two. Lillard on the other hand is already 22 years old, heck he is a couple months older than Chief, and is only a year and a half younger than Eric Gordon who's already going into his 5th year in the league. Lillard is going to be a better player than Rivers, probably for a few years.
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  24. #124
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    If I remember correctly, you said Tyson Chandler as a peak.
    7. Anthony Davis- The best shot blocker I've ever seen in college. His motor, IQ, and team 1st attitude will be a breathe of fresh air for any coaching staff. Has a fairly consistent mid range jumper. Will be one of those player you have to keep in eye out for when driving to the basket. Limited on offensive. He struggle if he his to put the ball on the floor more than once, has no real post moves, and is often pushed around by college level bodies. I see a ceiling of Tyson Chandler. Needs to add muscle, and develop so form of post game.

    Current NBA comparison- Tyrus Thomas
    I could tell you that his "scouting report" is totally wrong after just a few preseason games.

  25. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by sfernald View Post
    Sometimes it takes a long time for a player to develop, but I have been around long enough to know usually you can see the flashes of what that player is going to be like in preseason. I just watched the Washington game and Beal looks like he is going to become a flat out star. He is making practically every shot, and even the ones he is missing look like they are going to go in. The guy has perfect form. Plus the guy is making all sorts of great little plays. He reminds me a bit of Wade actually. I would rather see him miss than most of his teammates make it. If you can't tell he is leagues beyond most of his teammates, I'm not sure you know how to watch basketball. And yeah I can tell AD is going to be a star too. You don't have to watch 100 games to realize this. You can just use your eyes and your mind and connect the dots. It is pretty obvious to any knowledgable NBA fan, haters excluded.

    But with Rivers I'm not seeing many if any flashes even. If his last name wasn't Rivers, would there be all this hoopla about him? Honestly?

    I've seen four rookies I think are going to be stars in this league: AD, Drummond, Lillard and Beal. Not sure about the rest. I have to put Rivers in the "Aminu" category at this point. He's clearly going to be a long term project. His ceiling might be Kevin Martin at this point. Maybe better I hope. He's just not impressing me. What can I say? Do you think scouts are not allowed to evaluate players after just one game? Hell yeah they are. That's not to say the player might improve or that the scout's evaluation would change over time. But it is fair to make an assessment on a player based on his current play. You should be able to see that player's standout qualities even if he isn't polished right away - at least some glimmer of it. If you don't see at least one standout quality, what you have on your hands is probably a mediocre player. With Drummond you can see he is going to be a beast who is going to wreck havoc against smaller, weaker players. With Beal, it is obvious he is going to shoot lights out. With AD, it's obvious he's going to be a defensive monster and even his offensive game looks very promising. Westbrook couldn't shoot the first couple years, but everyone could see his amazing quickness and athleticism. What is that "it" factor you are seeing in Rivers to give you hope? Please enlighten me because I haven't seen it yet. He has that one quick step, but that makes him like a poor man's Jamal Crawford if that's all he's got.

    Anyway, you can insult me all you want as some of you have been doing in this thread. That's fine. I have thick skin. But do me a favor and if the guy doesn't improve over whatever time frame YOU deem necessary to make your determination of him, then be sure to dig up this thread and give me the credit I am due.

    I'm actually sorry I can't tell you what you want to hear. I wish he would blow me away. I wish I could see that spark in him. But I don't.
    It's not about insulting you, but go back and read your post that started this thread. It was a classic knee jerk reaction to a few preseason games. How do you expect people to respond? Rivers was drafted as a project at PG yet you already have given up on him before he has even played a single regular season game. Whether you like Rivers or hate him, do you realize how irrational that sounds?

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