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Thread: Luxury Tax Thread

  1. #26
    The Franchise
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    I'd like to think we're all smart enough to avoid ditching young talents for a single top guy. This is just my experience, but most of my deals trying to get young talent for Zo & Penny were denied, and denied good. Ask LoCo and Bee-Fense, when I contacted them, I was at my wit's end trying to find deals, and I really ended up settling for less than what I probably could've, and should've, gotten.

    A hard cap is a good idea though, as is penalizing points.
    Last edited by Xist2inspire; 08-28-2012 at 06:35 PM.

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  2. #27
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    and how did they acquire that talent?

    They did a good drop drafting talented players? They traded for those players?

    I said before we even drafted that people need to be careful with their moves because "superteams" will be formed. Not to call anyone out, but there have been a number of trades already in two seasons that were extremely lopsided and helped other teams really improve.
    Well I hear the argument against the penalty a lot that "We didn't know salaries of players in the original draft." That's a valid point. But a lot of moves have been made since that original draft and some of those players are now on other teams. But the teams that traded that high salary player didn't have to worry about having to take back less salary in a trade bc there is no penalty for being over. So why would they trade their high salary, all star level player in a deal that helps them shed salary if there is no penalty for being over. Teams under the cap can't use being under the cap to their advantage.

    Please don't take this as me jumping down any of you guys throat. I think it's a good discussion to have. In my head it makes since to have a hard cap, or harsh penalty since we do try to stick to NBA rules when we can. I also think it just makes the league more interesting and balanced. I'm trying to understand the other point of view that NO penalty is better, but I can't wrap my head around it.

    But, lets not let the discussion turn into more than what it is. A discussion with differing opinions.

  3. #28
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    To be fair, the NBA doesn't have a penalty either.

    They think the lux tax is fitting, but it isn't.

    This discussion is no different from the one we've had in the Nest a hundred times.

    Here's what it comes back to for me, right now you may have someone with 10 million in cap space thinking a guy that's 15 million over the cap should be penalized in some way, but at some point during the duration of this league, those tables will be turned and the guy that has 10 million will be the guy 15 million over.
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  4. #29
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! Trell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    To be fair, the NBA doesn't have a penalty either.

    They think the lux tax is fitting, but it isn't.

    This discussion is no different from the one we've had in the Nest a hundred times.

    Here's what it comes back to for me, right now you may have someone with 10 million in cap space thinking a guy that's 15 million over the cap should be penalized in some way, but at some point during the duration of this league, those tables will be turned and the guy that has 10 million will be the guy 15 million over.
    Its not really that for me, it's the fact that one will feel free and go after top guys with top money when they are already over the cap by alot. If that gets addressed I'm a happy camper, even though I'm happy now. But its was the main base of my arguement.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    and how did they acquire that talent?

    They did a good drop drafting talented players? They traded for those players?

    I said before we even drafted that people need to be careful with their moves because "superteams" will be formed. Not to call anyone out, but there have been a number of trades already in two seasons that were extremely lopsided and helped other teams really improve.
    lol, you can call me out for the Rasho trade.
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  6. #31
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    To be fair, the NBA doesn't have a penalty either.

    They think the lux tax is fitting, but it isn't.

    This discussion is no different from the one we've had in the Nest a hundred times.

    Here's what it comes back to for me, right now you may have someone with 10 million in cap space thinking a guy that's 15 million over the cap should be penalized in some way, but at some point during the duration of this league, those tables will be turned and the guy that has 10 million will be the guy 15 million over.

    I get that. But it makes it more strategic in that regard. If you are going to be penalized harshly for being far over the cap then you better be sure you can contend for a title while taking the penalty. As far as the NBA, I think they dropped the ball agreeing to the last CBA. I personally, would have liked to see much stricter penalties for teams like Lakers and Nets who spend $ like no ones business in the NBA. I hear that it will be harsher in the next few years but I don't know the details of what will make it stricter.

    I too agree that teams under cap will wan't a penalty and teams over won't. I just think if everyone knows there is a penalty then there is a ceiling that people will have to respect in regards to cap. Seems like now teams over the cap can do more than the teams under in my opinion. But with a penalty everyone would have to respect that penalty and make more cap friendly moves.

    I don't know man. LOL. I am obviously a team under the cap so I'm for a penalty.

  7. #32
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    Its not really that for me, it's the fact that one will feel free and go after top guys with top money when they are already over the cap by alot. If that gets addressed I'm a happy camper, even though I'm happy now. But its was the main base of my arguement.
    You can't go after top guys with top money if you're over the cap. It doesn't work like that, you can only sign Mins and Exceptions (Middle & Low). I feel like you aren't getting that considering you're continuing argument is "people over the cap will go after top level guys." Thats not how it goes
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by coltsguy510 View Post
    lol, you can call me out for the Rasho trade.
    I don't think that is what he is referring too. But that was a lopsided one. But it didn't put either of us over the cap.

  9. #34
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrepP View Post
    I get that. But it makes it more strategic in that regard. If you are going to be penalized harshly for being far over the cap then you better be sure you can contend for a title while taking the penalty. As far as the NBA, I think they dropped the ball agreeing to the last CBA. I personally, would have liked to see much stricter penalties for teams like Lakers and Nets who spend $ like no ones business in the NBA. I hear that it will be harsher in the next few years but I don't know the details of what will make it stricter.

    I too agree that teams under cap will wan't a penalty and teams over won't. I just think if everyone knows there is a penalty then there is a ceiling that people will have to respect in regards to cap. Seems like now teams over the cap can do more than the teams under in my opinion. But with a penalty everyone would have to respect that penalty and make more cap friendly moves.

    I don't know man. LOL. I am obviously a team under the cap so I'm for a penalty.
    Lets just put it this way, forget "for or against" a penalty.

    If we were to have one, what could we do? Someone mentioned picks and players earlier? That's not happening.

    So what does that leave?

  10. #35
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    Lets just put it this way, forget "for or against" a penalty.

    If we were to have one, what could we do? Someone mentioned picks and players earlier? That's not happening.

    So what does that leave?
    Oh oh: Points!

  11. #36
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think anyone would be scared off because they may lose out on a few points.

  12. #37
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    Lets just put it this way, forget "for or against" a penalty.

    If we were to have one, what could we do? Someone mentioned picks and players earlier? That's not happening.

    So what does that leave?
    Yeah. I was kind of hoping people would offer up more suggestions on what a penalty could be. I think the points thing is kind of weak in my opinion. But I don't have a better suggestion. Points just don't make sense to me bc I don't see that as a deterrent not to go over the cap. Bc teams over the cap normally get points from their players like crazy. We should be able to come up with something between all of us tho.

  13. #38
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! LoCo89's Avatar
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    I know, its just I feel its coming between that and instituting a hard cap, and I just like points better

  14. #39
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    Personally, I don't think anyone would be scared off because they may lose out on a few points.
    Exactly. Points wouldn't stop someone from going over.

  15. #40
    CP3 has deceitful eyes ohnosono's Avatar
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    how about a league wide shunning? That sounds fun.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trell View Post
    This isnt a good exscuse for a number of reasons. 1st of all, all of us are basketball fans and some maybe even did research before drafting and we were aware of the cap stuff, so drafting Shaq or someone of his caliber one should've known of the huge contract. 2nd, most teams are over the cap and still make more moves to put they team higher over the cap because they are aware there isnt no penanlty. And the 2 points stuff is not good enough, as teams will have the guys who has them over the cap which will bring in tons of points. I feel maybe pcks, points and players should be involve in this penanlty set as stages. But this has to sstop.
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  17. #42
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP3forMVP View Post
    Personally, I don't think anyone would be scared off because they may lose out on a few points.
    Nope, but it limits flexability to make other moves.

  18. #43
    Fire Monty!! Contributor AD23forMVP's Avatar
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    A hard cap isn't happening lol

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoCo89 View Post
    You can't go after top guys with top money if you're over the cap. It doesn't work like that, you can only sign Mins and Exceptions (Middle & Low). I feel like you aren't getting that considering you're continuing argument is "people over the cap will go after top level guys." Thats not how it goes
    This. If you are over cap, you cant offer anything but mins and exceptions.

    Only way you can offer max is to extend via bird rights, if im not mistaken
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  20. #45
    Hard cap. Once a team has cemented itself over the cap they have no incentive to not re
    Up guys worth 5million to one year 10 million. I doubt any one will ever approach that number unless they are a super team. 80 million hard cap

  21. #46
    The Mad Titan    Contributor   
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    and what, CP has to do something else and watch everyone's hard cap now (twss); he has enough to do.

  22. #47
    Nah you're responsible for your own. It's unrealistic for a team to be shelling out 100 million. Resigning guys to trade them as expirings.

  23. #48
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    Cant trust teams to police themselves to lose within the rules, think you're going to do that the other way around? Waht's the point of having an impossible hard cap to reach anyway?

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    Cant trust teams to police themselves to lose within the rules, think you're going to do that the other way around? Waht's the point of having an impossible hard cap to reach anyway?
    Thats when the other GMs comes in to make sure no one is cheating the league. Sorta like CP asked of us with the points.

  25. #50
    Geaux Hornets! Contributor PrepP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BallSoHard View Post
    and what, CP has to do something else and watch everyone's hard cap now (twss); he has enough to do.
    Obviously No one is wanting to create more work for CP3. But if you have a good argument for why there shouldn't be a penalty then add it to the discussion.

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