Luxury Tax Thread

[PrepP]

You ARE only one fighting for this, and you're incorrect that teams over the cap have more flexability. If you're 10 mill under the cap, you can sign FAs up to 10 mill, THEN offer a 4.5 mill mle THEN offer 1.2 Mill LLE and have all your rookies signed. How is that more flexable than someone who can only sign the 4.5 mill exeption?

I understand that I am the only person currently debating pro tax penalty. I just started the thread a few hours ago and considering there is a hurricane happening maybe some other GM's that are pro penalty just haven't posted yet. Or maybe I'm the only one willing to take all the criticism for stating my opinion on the issue. I was thinking that more people would be for a penalty tho. But whatever. I'm not afraid to give my opinion on it and not afraid to consider everyone else's.

[PrepP]

Great rebuttal. And I'll come back with I can see why u wouldn't want it; not that restrictive .

Why you always got an attitude man? I don't know if you've noticed but you come across like that in a lot of your posts. I'm not trying to start a confrontation about this. Just discussing it. I guess I should just shut up and let it be so your happy. You are right tho. I don't think that's restrictive enough. I'll take the heat tho. I'm obviously the only idiot that is in here giving my opinion so I guess I brought it on myself.

[janjanjanjan3]

okay my take on this :

The Lux Tax was implemented to help the small market teams compete. And since there are no small or big market teams here, its pointless to put one up. everyone is on a level playing field.

If what you are aiming for is a Balance on talent among teams, then a Hard Cap is what you should push for

[Pelicans78]

It is if there is a strict penalty you are facing and you have to make trades that take your cap into account.

Those trades are hard to do unless you're trading for expiring contracts.

[Pelicans78]

I do think points should be the only penalty. Taking away picks or players isn't fair because the league doesn't operate that way. Points is the only fair method. And I do think we should start a luxury tax in the 2005 season. Not now. We can agree on a penalty by then.

[BallSoHard]

Why you always got an attitude man? I don't know if you've noticed but you come across like that in a lot of your posts. I'm not trying to start a confrontation about this. Just discussing it. I guess I should just shut up and let it be so your happy. You are right tho. I don't think that's restrictive enough. I'll take the heat tho. I'm obviously the only idiot that is in here giving my opinion so I guess I brought it on myself.

I said the same thing you did but in reverse, but you took it to a personal level.

[PrepP]

okay my take on this :

The Lux Tax was implemented to help the small market teams compete. And since there are no small or big market teams here, its pointless to put one up. everyone is on a level playing field.

If what you are aiming for is a Balance on talent among teams, then a Hard Cap is what you should push for

I honestly just wanted to start a discussion on what other GM's thought. I knew it would be over the cap GM's against penalty and under the cap GM's pro penalty. But I seem to be the only one for a penalty. LOL. I like the idea of a hard cap. But CP3 has said that it won't happen. No small or large market doesn't matter. But teams that drafted into a high salary cap and continuing to stay over the cap with no penalty doesn't seem right to me. But I think that is the whole problem. Everyone else seems to think No penalty is fine while I see it as a slight advantage by them not being penalized. I've had a few drinks too so I'm probably not making my points very clear. Thanks for your input tho.

[PrepP]

Those trades are hard to do unless you're trading for expiring contracts.

Not hard if you trade to a team that has a lot of cap and can take back a high salary player and send you back less salary.

[PrepP]

I do think points should be the only penalty. Taking away picks or players isn't fair because the league doesn't operate that way. Points is the only fair method. And I do think we should start a luxury tax in the 2005 season. Not now. We can agree on a penalty by then.

I don't like the idea of taking away players or picks either. But I also don't think just a point restriction is enough to make people avoid going over. I don't know what the answer is but maybe some kind of further trade restrictions to teams over the cap and a point penalty like CP3 mentioned.

[PrepP]

I said the same thing you did but in reverse, but you took it to a personal level.

I apologize if I took your comment the wrong way. That happens a lot when just reading text. It was the "Great Rebuttal" comment that seems like a smart *** remark to me.

[BallSoHard]

My point was by saying that was you didn't rebute anything I wrote just made a comment towards me "of course wanting it" I reverse it and I have an attitude ? Dont get it.

I do have many points about this but don't feel typing it on an
iPhone. I'll probably post it out in the more in a more debatable form, but I mostly write in short hand bc I'm posting from a phone.

[PrepP]

My point was by saying that was you didn't rebute anything I wrote just made a comment towards me "of course wanting it" I reverse it and I have an attitude ? Dont get it.

I do have many points about this but don't feel typing it on an
iPhone. I'll probably post it out in the more in a more debatable form, but I mostly write in short hand bc I'm posting from a phone.

I would have been fine with your comment minus the "Great Rebuttal" statement that came across as sarcastic to me. I'm not here to disrespect anybody else's opinion or comments they make. I might poke fun of people's comments from time to time but it's all friendly. We both were making the same point tho. No big deal dude. Just thought you were being sarcastic. My bad.

[BeeBall Reasons]

Again lux tax or no lux tax teams do there best to avoid paying 80 million.

[Conroy]

Great rebuttal. And I'll come back with I can see why u wouldn't want it; not that restrictive .

I also think that is an unfair statement...if anyone is still following this thread PrepP has already posted an entire chapter of a book on his thoughts on this ordeal so the whole "Great Rebuttal" isn't fair. I think people arguing or fighting over what they think is fair for the league is a good thing. Differing viewpoints will hopefully give us the best result, just try to see the other's side and not let it get personal. Neither way will be the right way let's just get as close to it as we can.

[BallSoHard]

I also think that is an unfair statement...if anyone is still following this thread PrepP has already posted an entire chapter of a book on his thoughts on this ordeal so the whole "Great Rebuttal" isn't fair. I think people arguing or fighting over what they think is fair for the league is a good thing. Differing viewpoints will hopefully give us the best result, just try to see the other's side and not let it get personal. Neither way will be the right way let's just get as close to it as we can.

My comments were directed towards exactly what you said but opposite. I'd pointed out some facts and he didn't debate those, he just took that comment and made what seemed to be a snide remark back. So I don't think your assesment was fair of the situation. I never made things personal, and I understand that may not have been pointed at me, but wanted to clarify. But you are correct none of this should be taken personal, and prep i understand your points but i'm going to write a response in about an hour to address most of them. Thanks guys.

[BallSoHard]

CP, does the salary cap raise by year or not?

[PrepP]

So after marinating on this topic for a while, I think my initial reactions for a harsh tax penalty was asking too much. I came up with an idea that I like and would like other GM's feedback on what should be changed, etc. Is it too much? Not enough? Have better suggestions?

I really liked the idea that someone else mentioned about having an increasing penalty the more over the cap you are. I think we could do something similar to this.

> $10 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players

> $15 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade

> $20 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade + some sort of trade, FA, draft, etc. restriction???? need suggestions

***I also thought that maybe we could work out a way to evenly distribute all the points that teams over the cap acquire to teams that are under the cap. So say we have a "LUX TAX BANK" thread and it is up to all of the under the cap GM's to keep tabs of points acquired by the over the cap teams in that thread. Then at the end of the year those points are divided evenly (rounded down if a odd total) to teams under the cap.


I've been struggling to come up with something that wouldn't cause much work for cp3 , awarded teams for being under the cap, and made teams think twice about being taxed. I like the increasing penalty idea that someone else came up with so I just built off of that idea. I think giving the points to teams under the cap makes it a deterrent because then you are essentially helping out other teams indirectly. Similar to how the NBA tax works where you pay a fine for every dollar over the cap you are which is redistributed to all teams under the cap.


Thoughts?

[ohnosono]

I think we should wait a full sim year before implementing new rules that can punish teams. I'll have a crapload of capspace so I'm not trying to save myself, it just seems fair to me.

[bojangles837]

So after marinating on this topic for a while, I think my initial reactions for a harsh penalty was asking too much. I came up with an idea that I like and would like other GM's feedback on what should be changed, etc. Is it too much? Not enough? Have better suggestions?

I really liked the idea that someone else mentioned about a having an increasing penalty the more over the cap you are. I think we could do something similar to this.

> $10 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players

> $15 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade

> $20 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade + some sort of trade, FA, draft, etc. restriction???? need suggestions

***I also thought that maybe we could work out a way to evenly distribute all the points that teams over the cap acquire to teams that are under the cap. So say we have a "LUX TAX BANK" thread and it is up to all of the under the cap GM's to keep tabs of points acquired by the over the cap teams in that thread. Then at the end of the year those points are divided evenly (rounded down if a odd total) to teams under the cap.


I've been struggling to come up with something besides points that would deter teams spending so much to be over the cap but I haven't come up with anything. I like the increasing penalty idea that someone else came up with so I just came up with these restrictions. I think giving the earned points to teams under the cap makes it a deterrent bc then you are essentially helping out other teams indirectly. Similar to how the NBA tax works where you pay a fine for every dollar over the cap you are which is redistributed to all teams under the cap.


Thoughts?

i like

[PrepP]

I think we should wait a full sim year before implementing new rules that can punish teams. I'll have a crapload of capspace so I'm not trying to save myself, it just seems fair to me.

I agree

[Trell]

I think we should wait a full sim year before implementing new rules that can punish teams. I'll have a crapload of capspace so I'm not trying to save myself, it just seems fair to me.

Agree, we should wait until next season to imply rules or a rule.

So after marinating on this topic for a while, I think my initial reactions for a harsh penalty was asking too much. I came up with an idea that I like and would like other GM's feedback on what should be changed, etc. Is it too much? Not enough? Have better suggestions?

I really liked the idea that someone else mentioned about a having an increasing penalty the more over the cap you are. I think we could do something similar to this.

> $10 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players

> $15 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade

> $20 mill over = Team can't collect points from individual players + Can't send/receive points in a trade + some sort of trade, FA, draft, etc. restriction???? need suggestions

***I also thought that maybe we could work out a way to evenly distribute all the points that teams over the cap acquire to teams that are under the cap. So say we have a "LUX TAX BANK" thread and it is up to all of the under the cap GM's to keep tabs of points acquired by the over the cap teams in that thread. Then at the end of the year those points are divided evenly (rounded down if a odd total) to teams under the cap.


I've been struggling to come up with something besides points that would deter teams spending so much to be over the cap but I haven't come up with anything. I like the increasing penalty idea that someone else came up with so I just came up with these restrictions. I think giving the earned points to teams under the cap makes it a deterrent bc then you are essentially helping out other teams indirectly. Similar to how the NBA tax works where you pay a fine for every dollar over the cap you are which is redistributed to all teams under the cap.


Thoughts?

From loking more into it, my "picks and players" comments was terribly harsh, and I apologize for being so whop sided as some made it seem. But this rule Prep seems pretty fair.